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77E684E2-2B05-4988…

Online “Sex Workers” and Feminism Anonymous 46092

Is it bullshit?

I had been thinking about this for a while now, and I’ve discussed it somewhat with some acquaintances but most of the time I feel as though that discussions about sex work in the context of feminism in feminist spaces is a very slippery slope.

I started thinking about it because a girl that I follow on Instagram who goes to my university and runs track (she has an amazing body and honestly is my inspo). Anyway I noticed one day that she started an OnlyFans page that she added to her story, and it was kinda weird, so I didn’t think much of it. But I had been seeing this a lot with social media girls online, and it got me thinking back to this book I read a while ago by Gail Dines called “Pornland”.

There’s one message that still stands out to me from the beginning of the book:

>That hypersexualization is pseudo-empowerment since it is a substitute for what real power looks like


I know I probably sound prudish and backwards and I know that apparently the thing to do is “support sex workers” but honestly, I feel like it sends a bad message for something that’s extremely fleeting, even if you only view it as taking money from disgusting men desperate enough to pay for a few nudes while you own your body and sexuality. I want to believe that it’s just a crazy fad but do people really think it’s worth it especially in the long term?

Anonymous 46094

In a capitalist world, the defining length appears to be "purchasing power".
And ultimately, purchasing power is a means for "getting what you want".
So what does the onlyfans user want?

Anonymous 46095

>That hypersexualization is pseudo-empowerment since it is a substitute for what real power looks like
I agree with this. Imo to have power you need to achieve a position of respect and success. That's not what they're doing, if anything it's the opposite.

Anonymous 46097

Why is it OK for a woman to sell 8 hours of her day and stand there and make change as a cashier for not even enough money to live on and go home with sore feet and tired but a woman is not capable of renting out her companionship and being told she is pretty and nice and making a guy feel better (or girl)

I have done both and I would rather be a sugar baby than work a shit retail job, it's literally less demeaning

are you saying women are not smart enough to decide what kind of work they want to do?

Anonymous 46102

>>46097
>Why is it OK for a woman to sell 8 hours of her day and stand there and make change as a cashier for not even enough money to live on and go home with sore feet and tired but a woman is not capable of renting out her companionship and being told she is pretty and nice and making a guy feel better (or girl)
Are there no other options than sex work and grocers? Manual labor is another, pursuing education also.
>I have done both and I would rather be a sugar baby than work a shit retail job, it's literally less demeaning
Is your opinion of cashiers that low?
>are you saying women are not smart enough to decide what kind of work they want to do?
I don't see anywhere in OP this was implied. Feel free to point out where you got this, but it sounds more like you're projecting. To respond to the question, "smart" really isn't the concept being discussed. They are smart enough to decide on what work they can do in the short term, given a choice between being a grocer and a sex worker it makes sense short term, but I don't know how many actually have long term plans after they no longer possess the traits to do sex work any more. I can't think of any profession other than sex work that your earnings inherently go down the longer you're in the profession. I also can't think of many promotions in the profession other than from being a sex object to being the one directing other sex objects (brothel owner, porn director etc.), but men can be all those things without needing to be at the sex object step. Of course maybe they're stockpiling savings as well, but that seems to be the exception rather than the norm for most young adults.

As far as one other issue I'd guess it would be the fact you're still being reduced to a desire object if you choose sex work. Of course, this begs the important question of if there's a difference between choosing to be a sex object and being culturally expected to. In the end you're still a sex object. Is the point of sex work positive feminism just supposed to be it's okay to be a sex object as long you're getting more earning power from it? Is it the choice to do so that's important? Or is the goal to just not be judged based on your choice, because I'm pretty sure everyone judges and gets judged on their chosen profession. Granted, the stigma against being a sex worker is stronger, but it's going occur no matter how hard you try to suppress cultural views on sex since, inherently, the profession requires traits that are not chosen by the woman but her genes instead. While you can learn make up, work out and learn fashion, those only take you so far. Men even more so since there's an obvious imbalance between female and male sex workers.

Anonymous 46103

>>46095
>I agree with this. Imo to have power you need to achieve a position of respect and success.
I agree with this. What is there to respect in a sex worker? Genes? She didn't choose those. Make up skills? Fashion? Models, make up artists and youtubers have that. I don't see where any power or respect would come from.

Anonymous 46105

>>46102
are you saying sex work should be illegal or not? and if so only for women?

what laws should be in place to stop women from doing as they wish with their bodies?

Anonymous 46106

>>46092
There seems to be a narrative of eeking out a win from a shitty situation when you’re a woman. The phrase ‘take control’ or ‘reclaim’ ones sexuality is a dead giveaway about the way we already think- that sexuality is out of our hands, that we’re already objectified to hell and back again so if there’s an exploit to the system, one may as well milk it. I don’t think this is inherently evil, but dressing it up as the face of power is kind of grim, because it kind of implies that it’s the only power spectrum that women can meaningfully occupy. It’s a tough spot to be in, to be born into a body that is something of a natural moneymaker, be put in a shit life situation, and try to parse out if taking advantage of that is ‘empowering’ or ‘disempowering’.

Discussions of class and race and all those other intersectional subcategories are relevant here because We Live In A Society and as >>46097 pointed out, it’s a life path that stands in contrast to other shitty options. It’s an awkward push and pull, because if we move too far in one direction we make the world unsafe for people who do sex work by making it a ‘dirty’ taboo profession and they are treated poorly/unsafely as a result, but if we move too hard in the other direction it becomes the societal default and subjects lower class people to a base expectation that they all ought to dabble in it in some way, and that doesn’t seem good to me.

This is probably always going to be a divisive topic because there will always be a natural diversity of opinion- we’re wired to take the topic of intimate relationships and sexual input fairly seriously, or at least give it a lot of attention.

Anonymous 46107

>>46105
I've responded to your question but you've failed to respond to any of mine, you've just asked more questions. However, if this isn't a discussion but a continuous lob of problems that's alright.

>are you saying sex work should be illegal or not?

Is this purely about the legality? In that case, much like suicide, drug use and other victimless crimes, it should be legal but, much like suicide and drug use, it will and should always have a negative connotation, because they tend to be the symptoms of larger issues at work.
>and if so only for women?
I see no reason why men shouldn't be able to profit off women. What reasoning would you use to justify why we should discriminate on who can do a career but men can't?
>what laws should be in place to stop women from doing as they wish with their bodies?
That begs the question of what a law is supposed to do in the first place. A law doesn't stop people from committing crimes, it recognizes crimes and provides framework for how those who commit certain acts are processed. Hopefully you would build a society where sex work wasn't a very profitable position.

Of course a part of me wonders if people need certain things to be illegal just so they can consider themselves good for not doing them.

Anonymous 46108

>>46106
>the societal default and subjects lower class people to a base expectation that they all ought to dabble in it in some way, and that doesn’t seem good to me.
What society are you thinking of where people ought to use/do sex work?

Anonymous 46109

>>46105
Nta, and that anon hasn't brought up the issue of legality, it's more about the topic of feminism, power and women selling themselves as sex objects.
Imo, whichever physical job you do you sell your body. Any type of manual work is the type of work where you destroy your body for profit. Hell even desk jobs leave you with a professional deformation like wrist issues. In that sense sex work is not that terrible, my retail job (I work as a student so not even full time) is starting to leave me with a sore back. Sometimes I wish I had the courage to sell my feet pics or panties online tbh. Honestly I'm fine with prostitution being legal because it is called one of the oldest professions for a reason, people will always seek pleasure.
In the end I really agree with this anon >>46106, they phrased it best.
>>46108
>What society are you thinking of where people ought to use/do sex work?
Mostly poor countries with a big lower class. Lots of women resort to prostitution is such conditions.

Anonymous 46113

>>46106
>but if we move too hard in the other direction it becomes the societal default and subjects lower class people to a base expectation that they all ought to dabble in it in some way, and that doesn’t seem good to me.
I see it happening this way as well. If you remember several years ago, Lawrence Fishburne’s daughter, Montana went into porn and I remember she stated in an interview that she wanted to emulate the success of Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton in the wake of their sex tapes. Instead her life went in a completely opposite direction where she ended up in drug rehab multiple times. Even if sex tapes or sex work were destigmatized, at some point no one is really going to care about the fact that you did that while trying to “jumpstart” your career as a model or something, as if it’s a secret entry on your resumé. I’m sure Celestia Vega, one of the first “e-girls” had similar intentions but only managed to end up being a pornstar in the end.

Anonymous 46114

>>46109
>Mostly poor countries with a big lower class. Lots of women resort to prostitution is such conditions
I misquoted I guess, where is it culturally expected to "use" sex workers. We presume men to do it by choice but where is it an expectation of society that you are say, in addition to getting married, that you visit a brothel?

Anonymous 46116

>>46114
Nta again but it used to be common in europe back when prostitution was legal and booming for young men to be introduced to brothels by their fathers. But frankly I don't have sources to back it up aside from some historical stories and stuff so take this with a grain of salt until a smarter anon comes around

Anonymous 46117

When I sold nudes I didn't think it was empowering. If anything I thought it was kind of disgusting to encourage men. But tell them what they want to hear and they will think you are wrapped around their finger. Then you ask cash first and they get butt hurt. It was just a easy way to get quick cash. I didn't have enough money for gas or medication, because all of it went to rent and loans, I felt desperate. I follow the rule of never showing your face, because I never considered it long term.

Anonymous 46118

>>46116
It's okay, I only ask because my only exposure to male thinking on the subject is other image boards while lurking and it always seems to be viewed as a "beta move" or "cop out" to visit a sex worker. Extrapolating imageboard users to normal citizens us of course, flawed in it's own way.

Anonymous 46121

>>46118
Those are people who are very in their own heads about how others perceive them, instead of just concerning themselves with perceiving other people. A good percentage of dudes just want to nut sometimes, and pretty ladies help with that.

Certain corners of 4chan developed a neurotic culture based in the fear of not being desired by anyone- one could argue that they're not even really talking about the act of sex as much as the drive to be found sexually desirable (and if they really put on their introspection glasses, loved and valued and appreciated, but they wouldn't use words that vulnerable) by women. There's a bitterness that they 'have to' play a game to be found attractive, and there's an anger when others don't play the game or 'cheat'.

…I may or may not have been lurking /lgbt/gif/fa/ and slowly coming to the conclusion that some dudes even have a smattering of unconscious jealousy towards women for being the natural receptacles of attention, which may play a greater hand in modern misogyny than we currently anticipate.

Anonymous 46123

I've sold nudes and nylon stockings. I didn't find it empowering. 90% of the men who want to "buy" from you are just trying to get their rocks off for free, so you spend a lot of time just wrangling perverts. I think the glamorization of sex work is fucking things up for the younger generation who got primed to think selling nudes means fast, easy cash and they should be proud of their "hustle" when none of these young girls know how to stay safe and not get doxxed. All the camgirls and nude sellers I see on social media are constantly drunk or high and getting fillers and surgery and not actually living a lavish life, they just have to make it seem that way so they're attractive to their customers. It's sad and dangerous. And you're not in power. You rely on horny men to pay your bills, objectifying yourself with a smug smile on your face.

Anonymous 46129

Do you remember Angie Varona?

Anonymous 46130

>>46121
I came to this conclusion as well and it’s pretty funny to me because those types love to go on and on about the great accomplishments that men before them are responsible for. Yet, they as individuals haven’t accomplished anything like those men, so they mope about and complain about how average women “have it easy” simply by existing. It’s definitely jealousy and they wish they could compensate like that for their own shortcomings.

Anonymous 46150

>>46123
This

Selling your body is selling your dignity to pigs, the absolute oposite of being powerfull.

If you want power, work as double as hard than men, spend more time at work, save money instead of spending it on stuff, invest, study and grow, show attitude and be pridefull. Never depend on anyone but you and your intelect.

Anonymous 46886

>>46092
All down to laziness
People can see it a mile off



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