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Anonymous 61960

It's time to learn history because it's coming back to bite you in the ass.


The Soviet–Afghan War was a conflict wherein insurgent groups (known collectively as the mujahideen) as well as smaller Maoist groups, fought a nine-year guerrilla war against the Soviet Army and the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan government throughout the 1980s, mostly in the Afghan countryside. The mujahideen were variously backed primarily by the United States, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, and the United Kingdom; the conflict was a Cold War-era proxy war. Between 562,000 and 2,000,000 civilians were killed and millions of Afghans fled the country as refugees, mostly to Pakistan and Iran.

The foundations of the conflict were laid by the Saur Revolution, a 1978 coup wherein Afghanistan's communist party took power, initiating a series of radical modernization and land reforms throughout the country. These reforms were deeply unpopular among the more traditional rural population and established power structures. The repressive nature of the "Democratic Republic", which vigorously suppressed opposition and executed thousands of political prisoners, led to the rise of anti-government armed groups; by April 1979, large parts of the country were in open rebellion. The communist party itself experienced deep internal rivalries between the Khalqists and Parchamites; in September 1979, President Nur Mohammad Taraki was assassinated under orders of the second-in-command, Hafizullah Amin, which soured relations with the Soviet Union. Eventually the Soviet government, under leader Leonid Brezhnev, decided to deploy the 40th Army on December 24, 1979. Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup (Operation Storm-333), killing president Amin and installing Soviet loyalist Babrak Karmal from the rival faction Parcham. The deployment had been variously called an "invasion" (by Western media and the rebels) or a legitimate supporting intervention (by the Soviet Union and the Afghan government) on the basis of the Brezhnev Doctrine.

In the mid-1970s, Pakistani intelligence officials began privately lobbying the U.S. and its allies to send materiel assistance to the Islamist insurgents. Pakistani President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq's ties with the U.S. had been strained during Jimmy Carter's presidency due to Pakistan's nuclear program and the execution of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in April 1979, but Carter told National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski and Secretary of State Cyrus Vance as early as January 1979 that it was vital to "repair our relationships with Pakistan" in light of the unrest in Iran. According to former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) official Robert Gates, "the Carter administration turned to CIA … to counter Soviet and Cuban aggression in the Third World, particularly beginning in mid-1979."

At a March 30 meeting, U.S. Department of Defense representative Walter B. Slocombe "asked if there was value in keeping the Afghan insurgency going, 'sucking the Soviets into a Vietnamese quagmire?'" When asked to clarify this remark, Slocombe explained: "Well, the whole idea was that if the Soviets decided to strike at this tar baby [Afghanistan] we had every interest in making sure that they got stuck. Yet an April 5 memo from National Intelligence Officer Arnold Horelick warned: "Covert action would raise the costs to the Soviets and inflame Moslem opinion against them in many countries. The risk was that a substantial U.S. covert aid program could raise the stakes and induce the Soviets to intervene more directly and vigorously than otherwise intended."

In May 1979, U.S. officials secretly began meeting with rebel leaders through Pakistani government contacts. After additional meetings Carter signed a "presidential 'finding'" that "authorized the CIA to spend just over $500,000" on "non-lethal" aid to the mujahideen, which "seemed at the time a small beginning.

Long story short, the US backed the islamists and succeeded at making Afghanistan the Soviet Union's Vietnam. Now what are the consequences of that?

Following the Soviet withdrawal, some of the foreign volunteers (including Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda) and young Afghan refugees, went on to continue violent jihad in Afghanistan, Pakistan and abroad. Some of the thousands of Afghan Arabs who left Afghanistan went on to become "capable leaders, religious ideologues and military commanders," who played "vital roles" as insurgents or terrorists in places such as Algeria, Egypt, Bosnia and Chechnya. Tens of thousands of Afghan refugee children in Pakistan were educated in madrassas "in a spirit of conservatism and religious rigor", and went on to fill the ranks and leadership of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Sipah-e-Sahaba in Pakistan. The groups embodied new varieties of Political Islam – "Salafi jihadism" among the foreign volunteers, and a "hybrid" Deobandi jihadism among the madrassa-educated.

President Najibullah, before his ouster by the mujahideen in 1992, told a visiting US academic that "Afghanistan in extremist hands would be a center of instability." It has been claimed that the chaos may have been avoided if the Bush administration was willing to support the Najibullah and Soviet proposals of a coalition government with the guerillas, instead of a total military solution. Najibullah also told the International Herald Tribune:

If fundamentalism comes to Afghanistan, war will continue for many years. Afghanistan will be turned into a center of terrorism.

As many as 35,000 non-Afghan Muslim fighters went to Afghanistan between 1982 and 1992. Thousands more came and did not fight but attended schools with "former and future fighters". These "Afghan-Arabs" had a marginal impact on the jihad against the Soviets, but a much greater effect after the Soviets left and in other countries. (After the Soviets left, training continued and "tens of thousands" from "some 40 nations" came to prepare for armed insurrections "to bring the struggle back home".)

The man instrumental not only in generating international support but also in inspiring these volunteers to travel to Afghanistan for the jihad was a Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood cleric, Abdullah Azzam. Touring the Muslim world and the United States, he inspired young Muslims with stories of miraculous deeds, such as mujahideen who defeated vast columns of Soviet troops virtually single-handedly, angels riding into battle on horseback, and falling bombs intercepted by birds.

When back in the volunteer camps and training centers that he helped set up around Peshawar, Pakistan, Azzam exercised a "strong influence." He preached the importance of jihad: "those who believe that Islam can flourish [and] be victorious without Jihad, fighting, and blood are deluded and have no understanding of the nature of this religion"; of not compromising: "Jihad and the rifle alone: no negotiations, no conferences and no dialogues";[353] and that Afghanistan was only the beginning: jihad would "remain an individual obligation" for Muslims until all other formerly-Muslim lands—"Palestine, Bukhara, Lebanon, Chad, Eritrea, Somalia, the Philippines, Burma, South Yemen, Tashkent, Andalusia"—were reconquered.

The volunteers also influenced each other. Many "unexpected" religious-political ideas resulted from the "cross-pollination" during the "great gathering" of Islamists from dozens of countries in the camps and training centers. One in particular was a "variant of Islamist ideology based on armed struggle and extreme religious vigour", known as Salafi jihadism.

When the Soviet Union fell shortly after their withdrawal from Afghanistan, the volunteers were "exultant", believing that—in the words of Osama bin Laden—the credit for "the dissolution of the Soviet Union … goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan … the US had no mentionable role,"[356] (Soviet economic troubles and United States aid to mujahideen notwithstanding). They eagerly sought to duplicate their jihad in other countries.

Among the approximately three million Afghan refugees in Pakistan, thousands of children were educated in madrasa boarding schools financed by aid from the US and Gulf monarchies. Since that aid was distributed according to the conservative Islamist ideological criteria of Pakistan's President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq and Saudi Arabia (and ignoring native Afghan traditions), the schools were part of networks of the favored Hizb-e-Islami party and the Pakistan Deobandi.

Cut off from families and local traditions, the madrassa students were "educated to put Deobandi doctrines into action through obedience to the fatwas produced in the madrasses in a spirit of conservatism and religious rigor." As the Afghan students came of age, they formed "the mainstay" of the Taliban in Afghanistan and of the anti-Shia Sipah-e-Sahaba Sunni terror group in Pakistan. But unlike the traditionally non-violent Deobandi, this "hybrid movement" embraced the violence of jihad, and unlike the Islamists of Hizb-e-Islami they were uninterested in "islamizing modernity" of western knowledge or in western knowledge at all. The culture of religious purification, absolute obedience to leaders, and disinterest in anything else, is thought to explain the willingness of Hizb-e-Islami-trained soldiers to bombard Kabul with artillery and kill thousands of civilians, reassured by their commander that the civilians they killed would "be rewarded" in heaven if they were "good Muslims".

Anonymous 61963


Salafi jihadism or jihadist-Salafism is a transnational religious-political ideology based on a belief in "physical" jihadism and the Salafi movement of returning to what adherents believe to be true Sunni Islam.

The terms "Salafist jihadist" and "jihadist-Salafism" were coined by scholar Gilles Kepel in 2002 to describe "a hybrid Islamist ideology" developed by international Islamist volunteers in the Afghan anti-Soviet jihad who had become isolated from their national and social class origins.

In the 1990s, extremist jihadists of the al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya were active in the attacks on police, government officials and tourists in Egypt, and Armed Islamic Group of Algeria was a principal group in the Algerian Civil War. The most infamous jihadist-Salafist attack is the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States by al-Qaeda. While Salafism had next-to-no presence in Europe in the 1980s, Salafist jihadists had by the mid-2000s acquired "a burgeoning presence in Europe, having attempted more than 30 terrorist attacks among E.U. countries since 2001." While many see the influence and activities of Salafi jihadists as in decline after 2000 (at least in the United States), others see the movement as growing, in the wake of the Arab Spring and the breakdown of state control in Libya and Syria.

Gilles Kepel writes that the Salafis whom he encountered in Europe in the 1980s, were "totally apolitical" However, by the mid-1990s, he met some who felt jihad in the form of "violence and terrorism" was "justified to realize their political objectives". The combination of Salafi alienation from all things non-Muslim – including "mainstream European society" – and violent jihad created a "volatile mixture". "When you're in the state of such alienation you become easy prey to the jihadi guys who will feed you more savory propaganda than the old propaganda of the Salafists who tell you to pray, fast and who are not taking action".

According to Kepel, Salafist jihadism combined "respect for the sacred texts in their most literal form, … with an absolute commitment to jihad, whose number-one target had to be America, perceived as the greatest enemy of the faith."

Salafi jihadists distinguished themselves from salafis they term "sheikist", so named because – the jihadists believed – the "sheikists" had forsaken adoration of God for adoration of "the oil sheiks of the Arabian peninsula, with the Al Saud family at their head".

According to Mohammed M. Hafez, contemporary jihadi Salafism is characterized by "five features":

immense emphasis on the concept of tawhid (unity of God);

God's sovereignty (hakimiyyat Allah), which defines right and wrong, good and evil, and which supersedes human reasoning is applicable in all places on earth and at all times, and makes unnecessary and un-Islamic other ideologies such as liberalism or humanism;

the rejection of all innovation (bid‘ah) in Islam;

the permissibility and necessity of takfir (the declaring of a Muslim to be outside the creed, so that they may face execution);

and on the centrality of jihad against infidel regimes.

Another researcher, Thomas Hegghammer, has outlined five objectives shared by jihadis:

Changing the social and political organisation of the state, (an example, being the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) and the former Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) which fought to overthrow the Algerian state and replace it with an Islamic state.)

Establishing sovereignty on a territory perceived as occupied or dominated by non-Muslims, (an example being the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (Soldiers of the Pure) in Indian-administered Kashmir and the Caucasus Emirate in the Russian Federation).

Defending the Muslim community (ummah) from external non-Muslim perceived threats, either the "near enemy" (al-adou al-qarib, this includes jihadists Arabs who travelled to Bosnia and Chechnya to defend local Muslims against non-Muslim armies) or the "far enemy" (al-adou al-baid, often affiliates of Al-Qaeda attacking the West).

Correcting other Muslims' moral behaviour. (In Indonesia, vigilantes first used sticks and stones to attack those they considered "deviant" in behavior before moving on to guns and bombs).

Intimidating and marginalising other Muslim sects, (an example being Lashkar-e-Jhangvi which has carried out violent attacks on Pakistani Shia for decades, and killings in Iraq.

According to Michael Horowitz, Salafi jihad is an ideology that identifies the "alleged source of the Muslims' conundrum" in the "persistent attacks and humiliation of Muslims on the part of an anti-Islamic alliance of what it terms 'Crusaders', 'Zionists', and 'apostates'.

Antecedents of Salafism jihadism include Islamist author Sayyid Qutb, who developed "the intellectual underpinnings" of the ideology. Qutb argued that the world had reached a crisis point and that the Islamic world has been replaced by pagan ignorance of Jahiliyya (Arabia before the advent of Islam in 610 CE).

Salafist jihadists groups include Al Qaeda, the now defunct Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA), and the Egyptian group Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya which still exists.

In the Algerian Civil War 1992–1998, the GIA was one of the two major Islamist armed groups (the other being theArmee Islamique du Salut or AIS) fighting the Algerian army and security forces. The GIA included veterans of the Afghanistan jihad and unlike the more moderate AIS, fought to destabilize the Algerian government with terror attacks designed to "create an atmosphere of general insecurity". It considered jihad in Algeria fard ayn or an obligation for all (adult male sane) Muslims, and sought to "purge" Algeria of "the ungodly" and create an Islamic state. It pursued what Gilles Kepel called a "wholesale massacres of civilians", targeting French-speaking intellectuals, foreigners, and Islamists deemed too moderate, and took a campaign of bombing to France, which supported the Algerian government against the Islamists. Although over 150,000 were killed in the civil war, the GIA eventually lost popular support and was crushed by the security forces. Remnants of the GIA continued on as "Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat", which as of 2015 calls itself al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb.

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, (the Islamic Group) another Salafist-jihadi movement fought an insurgency against the Egyptian government from 1992 to 1998 during which at least 800 Egyptian policemen and soldiers, jihadists, and civilians were killed. Outside of Egypt it is best known for a November 1997 attack at the Temple of Hatshepsut in Luxor where fifty-eight foreign tourists were hacked and shot to death. The group declared a ceasefire in March 1999, although as of 2012 it is still active in jihad against the Bashar al-Assad regime Syria.

You can read up yourself about Al-Qaeda.

What's the point of this thread? It's to show that islamism is a modern invention, of the US no less. It's the consequence of the Red Scare and anti-communist sentiment in the US. When Communism and the Soviet Union was doing wonders to the region to modernize them by force, the US decided to support muslim conservatives just because they were afraid of the USSR. And what's the result of that? Emboldened psychopaths thinking everyone is a filthy sinner and only they are Pure.

Muslim countries that were under Soviet rule are not like the mess that MENA is now.

Anonymous 61965


When Muslim‐​majority countries are ranked according to their combined personal freedom scores (Table 1), two countries in Southeast Europe stand out as the most free: Bosnia and Herzegovina, with a freedom score of 8.04 (on a scale of 0 to 10), followed by Albania with a freedom score of 8.01. Bosnia is a country emerged from the breakup of Communist Yugoslavia, and Albania was under the rule of Communist dictator Enver Hoxha from 1941 until his death in 1985.

These scores are significantly above the world average (6.98), and very close to the scores of countries such as Greece (8.07) and Argentina (8.04).

These two Southeast European Muslim‐​majority countries are followed by Burkina Faso of West Africa (with a personal freedom score of 7.39), and the Kyrgyz Republic of Central Asia (with a personal freedom score of 7.05).

Yes, Burkina Faso had a very close relationship with the Soviet Union. Kyrgyzstan is an ex-soviet republic.

Regionally speaking, the freest Muslim‐​majority countries are located in Southeast Europe, West Africa, and Central Asia, all post-soviet regions. In general, these three regions are the freest regions of the Muslim world. In contrast, the least free region is the Middle East and North Africa, countries were the US, the UK and Israel did their worst to counter Soviet influence.

I don't think all muslims are bad or that islam, per se, is bad. Like christianity, all the bad parts can be handwaved and ignored in favor of keeping the good parts only. But I think MENA countries needs good ol' socialism to do that, socialism like the Soviet Union still existed, it's no coincidence even MENA countries were socially liberal and secular when the USSR was at the height of its power.

Too bad the US hates socialism. As long as the US keeps screaming "Die commie!" at anyone who points out THEY created this mess, that islam can be something other than their deliberately created extremist monster, and that the Soviets were doing GOOD here to modernize islam, this situation will never be resolved.

Anonymous 61968


The irony of this post.

Sage 61969

Ok shlomo

Btw why do you look like rats

Anonymous 61970

You tell me, I'm not Jewish. I'm just someone who can connect the dots.

Sage 61971

Sure thing schnozberg

Anonymous 61972

Ignoring documented history in favor of shitposting. What's your interest here?

Sage 61973

What's your interest here shlomo

Since I guarantee that no one cares

Anonymous 61974

My interest in educating people on what lead us to the current situation, since many people complain against the current migration crisis and against muslims but do not know the preceding history that shaped them into what they are now.

If you don't care about that, you will never solve conflict.

Anonymous 61975


yo, some of us have dayjobs, can you put that in sparknotes? tx.

Sage 61976

Whatever you say shlomo. People are onto you

Anonymous 61977

I wish people were onto history, they might learn something instead of making always the same dumb mistakes.

Anonymous 61978

Sage doesn't go in the email field.


sergei goes into all fields

Anonymous 61980

I really wish the transition from the USSR to modern Russia had been less brutal on Russia. The USSR was THE driving force of women's rights and feminism in the muslim world. Now even Russia has regressed a lot on women's rights.

Anonymous 62002

I think this is the post you should have opened with

Anonymous 62059

Imagine deriving from all this that the Soviets are 'saviours' in any way. Maybe YOU should read up on relation of the USSR to Muslim peoples, the execution of Sultan-Galievist "nationalists" (people who thought Turkistan shouldn't be divided in the same fashion the British Empire divided their colonies), the deportation and massacre by NKVD of entire Chechen villages (want to know why they sided with them? because their masjids were being closed down and the Wehrmacht re-established their prayers there), the compete russification of their supposedly "national" parties through the purges and through russified education system, is this any different from British colonialism?

The Zionist-Anglos started this feat of instilling 'modernisation' concepts into muslims, dividing them into hostile 'nationalities' and the Soviets/Amerimutts/PRC are just carrying their work through. What has kemalist 'modernisation' done for Turkey? It has only lain the groundwork for hostilities against the Arab world in favour of the Zionist West. 'Modernisation' in Syria, what has the state-industrialisation led to in the end? This is what you 'modern' minded people enjoy because it's all for a 'greater good' even though it has caused only human destruction throughout any country which can be considered genuinely capitalist today.

The 'good old socialism' you propose is nothing but the most savage and bastardised/opportunistic usage of socialistic pretenses to affect the total domination of capital (accomplishing its domination over production through 'industrialisation'), there is nothing 'liberatory' in the results of this either ('egalitarian' policies fall short in the face of actual social reality, any 'economical' or technological 'progress' falls short in the face of the fact that they were made with 'rationalisation' in mind, intensifying the domination of capital over people on a micro level, with an end which is inhuman and contrary to the end of the subject(labour) it takes hold of.)

I am not trying to excuse the wahhabist sunnis at all. I only want to highlight that the problem isn't the 'uncivilised' against the 'civilised' and 'modern' [White Man's Burden], that dichotomy in fact is what led to the extreme politicisation and sectarianism of religions and the Soviet Union played a MAJOR role in that(along with the other empires.) The real problem is the domination of capital which never 'advances' anything but means for extending its domination, hence servitude and that is the thread running through this all which makes any form of 'feminism' and 'humanism' defunct and hypocritical without a critical approach to capitalism. And the same with 'handwaving' terroristic states because they're a bit more 'benevolent' than the US (supposedly!)

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