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Gaslighting Anonymous 16979

Gaslighting seems to be a really common tactic among men to use against women, especially ones who get angry and vent by taking it out on others. Men in my life regularly use manipulative tactics and lie to try and make me feel bad about myself or tell me that things that happen to me are deserved. My boyfriend constantly says edgy shit about women and upsets me and then just calls me sensitive. It happens on 4chan and even on this board. We're told we're crazy for finding certain behaviours and thoughts repulsive, and we're not allowed to criticise them. If we even try doing the same thing to them we get swamped by accusations of being 'crazy'. It's all too much. I'm sick of being painted as crazy or angry for trying to get people to give a shit about my feelings and understand me.

Anyone else have this problem?

Anonymous 16981

What is gaslighting? also can you give us some specific examples of how you've been mistreated?

Anonymous 16983

If everyone you interact with is trying to manipulate and decieve you, then you're probably mentally ill and distorting reality.

Anonymous 16984

ghosteyes.png

>>16981

Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse where someone tries to plant seeds of doubt in the victim to make them question their own feelings and make them seem angry or crazy

E.G.,

Withholding: the abusive partner pretends not to understand or refuses to listen. Ex. “I don’t want to hear this again,” or “You’re trying to confuse me.”

Countering: the abusive partner questions the victim’s memory of events, even when the victim remembers them accurately. Ex. “You’re wrong, you never remember things correctly.”

Blocking/Diverting: the abusive partner changes the subject and/or questions the victim’s thoughts. Ex. “Is that another crazy idea you got from [friend/family member]?” or “You’re imagining things.”

Trivializing: the abusive partner makes the victim’s needs or feelings seem unimportant. Ex. “You’re going to get angry over a little thing like that?” or “You’re too sensitive.”

Forgetting/Denial: the abusive partner pretends to have forgotten what actually occurred or denies things like promises made to the victim. Ex. “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” or “You’re just making stuff up.”

My family used to do this a lot to me even though they would talk all the time behind my back and lie to me in order to make me do things, or pretend that my memories were wrong even when I was 100% they were right.

There's a lesser but more widespread kind of 'gaslighting' on the internet, like when a man tells a woman she is 'angry' or 'crazy' for disliking when he is misogynistic.

Aaaaaand cue the people who are gonna try and explain to me how I'm just being sensitive and overreacting and that gaslighting in any situation whatsoever is excusable.

Anonymous 16986

igaveup.png

>>16983

You're misrepresenting my OP and you know it.

Anonymous 16988

>>16986
Don't mind the MIDF (male internet defense force).

Anonymous 16990

>>16984
you need to understand here that what you described is exactly how people usually react when someone IS remembering things incorrectly / crazy / overly sensitive / paranoid. i'm absolutely NOT saying you are since i don't know you or your situation, but don't be surprised if people are a bit skeptical just from reading what you wrote without any real context

can you give us some context? especially the remembering part since i think it's something you have experience on considering how specific it is. why do people deny your memories? it sounds really odd

Anonymous 16991

learnit.png

>>16990
I don't really know how I'm supposed to prove to you that people gaslight me a lot even if I proved a specific case you'd then say 'but what about all these other cases'. And there's totally a difference between being sceptical and implying I'm a liar like some anons definitely will and have begun to in this thread (see >>16988). I think when you're certain of something and they are just calling you crazy and can't even begin to offer proof or a valid response that's a good sign it's gaslighting.

I'm not really thinking of a specific thing either when I made this thread, except for 1. my parents' behaviour towards me even as an adult which is pathological even going into lying to me about what I like and dislike and what I want to do when I grow up and how I want to live my life (which are all things I should be perfectly capable of knowing), and abusive relationships I've had where my boyfriend has not allowed me to question certain aspects of our relationship, and also in regards to the internet where men tell women they are being crazy/angry for getting upset over… basically anything. Essentially we're not allowed to have problems.

I appreciate that those are typically responses to when you think someone is wrong but it is certainly different in actuality when it's gaslighting and I think it's pretty obvious in retrospect when someone has been gaslighting you and telling someone they're mentally ill for their memory of being gaslighted is really just reifying the manipulation in a really insidious way.

Anonymous 16992

>>16991

WHOOPS meant that for >16990
srry 16988 love u

Anonymous 16994

>>16991
i'm sorry if it feels like i'm antagonizing you, it was never my intention. i don't doubt you at all, there's just usually some very specific thing at the back of peoples mind, the "main botherer" so to speak. have you tried talking to a professional about your feelings and experiences? i've found it very helpful, i don't think there's any reason for us to carry our burden alone, and going to a professional doesn't mean you're in any way 'crazy' or broken or weak or anything at all! it just sounds to me like you had very abusive parents, and abusive upbringing very often ties some really tight knots inside people, which we're not always able to open ourselves

Anonymous 16996

>>16994
I've spoken and cried to my therapist about it and she says it makes sense and that I just seem to have a bad past and seem to be very empathetic and observe the crappy ways in which people treat each other but that I need to try and ignore it for my own mental health, and she also said I need to stop going on imageboards (which is why I'm on cryscafe instead of 4chan but like, let's be honest it's not perfect).

Anonymous 17000

>>16979
Gaslighting has become an overused word these days. In instances where men tell women we're being crazy and irrational, often they just fail or refuse to understand our point of view simply because they don't experience the world as women (generally) do or there are communication issues between you and him.

>My boyfriend constantly says edgy shit about women and upsets me and then just calls me sensitive

Why is he your boyfriend?

Anonymous 17001

>>17000
>Why is he your boyfriend?

Probably she can't find anyone better than him anyway

Anonymous 17006

>>17001
this

he's the most loving guy I know. He's still a dick. All men are.

>>17000

It's a nice and accurate word for the naturally manipulative behaviour of males

Anonymous 17012

Aren't you by definition gaslighting against men? How is it so difficult to grasp that both men and women can be terrible people and abusers?
All those weasel words and factoids are only doing harm.
>We're told we're crazy for finding certain behaviours and thoughts repulsive, and we're not allowed to criticise them
Who is saying this? All 3+ billion men in unison?
>Anyone else have this problem?
No, I don't hang out with terrible people. It's good to remember that if you meet an asshole, you met an asshole, but if you meet nothing but assholes then maybe you're doing something wrong. Maybe you're the asshole and everyone else is just reacting to your behavior.

Anonymous 17016

>>17006
>He's still a dick. All men are.
>naturally manipulative behaviour of males
i'm starting to see the problem here

Anonymous 17017

>>17012

men in my life have been more violent and abusive than the women and yeah it seems to be like all of them in unison sometimes

maybe you're the asshole for trying to push your own experience on someone who's actually had a bad life

Anonymous 17028

>>17017
Would you agree with someone who held the same exact thoughts as you, but instead it was targeted on certain group? What if someone had bad experiences with black men? For example
>black men in my life have been more violent and abusive than the women
You can be upset and angry towards individuals, but bigotry is something everyone should avoid.

Anonymous 17033

No. My problem is that I assume no one gives a shit about me anyway and clam up. (Of course when I voice my opinion in any way it's made pretty clear that no one gives a shit either way but OH NO ANON WHY DO YOU NEVER SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS)

Anonymous 17038

my ex did this all the time and it worked on me, i felt really guilty and thought i was overreacting or being a bitch. smh. another guy tried the same but i wasn't that naive anymore and confronted his ass.

Anonymous 17043

>>17016
OP definitely has some chips on her shoulders

I wouldn't describe my boyfriend as a dick. Maybe a weird fucking dork that occasionally says stupid shit because he blurts things out before thinking it through, but not a dick.

Anonymous 17049

There's no way I'd put up with that if my bf was doing it. Love yourself OP, you deserve someone better if you've seriously talked to him about this and he ignores your feelings. I do understand what you mean though because I have a load of narcs in my life that use this tactic. Sounds like a lot of anons above haven't experienced it and my god you're so fucking lucky if you haven't. It makes you feel like pure shit. I genuinely feel like I'm going insane when someone is constantly acting like a cunt towards me and the moment I speak up, I'm the mean one. Had to deal with relatives that did this my whole life and I never felt like I could speak up for myself or I'd be made to feel ashamed for even talking back. These people are pure scum and they feel nothing, cut them out of your life and you'll feel so much better.

Anonymous 17063

>>16984
You can't go through your whole life convinced everyone who disagrees with you is a bad person psychologically abusing and manipulating you. Sometimes people just have different viewpoints. And sometimes, maybe you actually are wrong.

If you learn about gaslighting and suddenly think "oh my god EVERYONE is always doing that to me! They were are liars manipulating me, but I'm always right about everything!" well you might just be crazy. Or just full of yourself.

Anonymous 17064

>>16979
>no dont use your defence mechanisms thats bad! You need to walk on artificial eggshells if you want to do that Im telling you.
t. gaslighter

Anonymous 17065

>>16979
Ive come to realize that some people have energy and that energy attracts vampires. Even ""normal"" people are vampires who try to leech the energy. Since we live in an unnatural world and its so easy for them to have their way it means that in a natural world they would be as good as dead.

So yea keep your shields up against everyone even non-gaslighters without apologizing for it. A friend wouldnt need you to have a vulnerable spot in your back so that he can backstab you.

Also if you find a way to hurt the gaslighters it will help you very much on this not being a one sided thing because it will just keep going if they find out you are a safe target.

Anonymous 17067

>>17065
(Continue) They "read" your energy thats the important thing to remember. They know what you are even if they pretend they dont. Im guessing that you need to somewhat lower your general tolerance before you declare someone an enemy. Dont even tolerate much from normie behavior before you blacklist them because you are the natural creature not them.

Anonymous 17073

>>16979
I’m sensitive about this because of my sister.
Here’s some reasons why.
She comes back from a party wearing my new sweater; I haven’t worn it yet. It was a gift. I tell her never to borrow my clothes without asking.
Her,
“You said I could”
Me,
“No I did not.”
Her,
“Stop gaslighting me!”
My dad accidentally knocked some cookies to the floor, we picked them up. She was furious because she ‘knew’ she would be forced to eat one that fell to the floor because everyone hated her. Dad asked her to calm down, he’d make sure she got the ones she wanted, there was no need to be angry.
Her,
“That’s gaslighting! You’re gaslighting me!”

We did secret Santa every year. Mom would run it and kept a list of which sibling go what. Two years ago my youngest brother got zero SS presents, my middle brother got two.
Mom told my sister she had drawn my youngest brother’s name.
Her,
“No, I drew (middle brother), I remember.”
Mom,
“ I wrote it down. In front of you.
Her,
“You are gaslighting me again! I remember what happened, I’m not crazy!”
Mom,
“I kept the slip of paper, you wrote your name on it like every year.”
Her,
“You faked that, you must have! I remember!”
Mom,
“Why in the world would I do that?”
Her,
“More gaslighting! Stop that! I’m not crazy!”

She is never, never, ever wrong - you’re just gaslighting her.
Do I think no one gaslights?
I’m sure they do.
But ffs, some people do forget and sometimes we do overreact, etc.

Anonymous 17075

I think I am being gaslighted.
Whenever I complain about my bf being an asshole, he says I'm too overly sensitive. He says I get offended too easily, too. I told him a lot of times that I am not one of his bros for him to be annoying and mocking me. It's gotten better, but still happens.

I always thought - what if I am? What if I am a oversensitive whining bitch that can't take a joke?
Now I'm realizing that he's just an asshole and that my gut feeling is right. Fuck. I used to see this guys as a prince back in the day.

Anonymous 17093

>>17075
>not bantering back and forth with your bf
He deserves better tbh.

Anonymous 17095

>>17093
nta but I like bantering/playfully insulting my male friends but I could never do that with a partner.
He would be my treasure and life's purpose, why would I be mean to him at all? And vice versa. I would like to be seen as his support and would not take insults (unless valid criticisms) lightly.
Different strokes?

Anonymous 17119

>He would be my treasure and life's purpose, why would I be mean to him at all?
Banter isn't "being mean", it's literally the opposite. It's a means of showing affection. This is middle school level stuff.

Anonymous 17129

>>17119
Really? With my friends it usually consists of teasing each other for making stupid mistakes (calling each other idiots and dramatizing small incidents like someone dropping something), making fun of personal failings (like me not being able to get laid and my best friend making fun of me for constantly thirsting after men), or bringing up things that the other person is very openly distressed by (like body horror or certain types of porn).
Of course no one is offended by this, but I wouldn't do it to a partner because it still does have mean undertones. It's still laughing at someone, even if lovingly. I could never make fun of someone I love like that. I've never been able to do that to men who I've been attracted to.
Could also add this doesn't apply to all my male friends. One directly stated this sort of thing upsets him so I don't. Hastagnotallmen or whatever

Anonymous 17145

>>17093

why do you assume it's banter aren't you just assuming here that she's in the wrong

clearly a male tbh

Anonymous 17148

>>17119

banter totally is being mean when you know the other person will get upset by it and you refuse to respect their feelings. Respect other people and don't force your lifestyle onto them. This is elementary level stuff.

Anonymous 42535

>>16984
Come on, all of those things are stuff normal people regularly say to each other. Are you sure you really aren't suffering from schizoid personality disorder? Paranoia is a very common symptom.

Anonymous 43240

here's some nutty things my ex did:
>if he told me an opinion i disagreed with, i would accept it
>if i said something he didn't agree with, he would blow it up into a huge argument where he is running around screaming and ranting, until i felt the need to apologize or compromise or say i was wrong
>this included opinions over things as insipid as marvel movies
>then he would say that i was the one with really radical opinions and he needed to think if he could be with someone like me

>he would be miserable and grumpy to the point of shouting at me until i cried

>he would excuse it by saying he "wasn't a morning person" or "his back hurt"
>when i looked a little sad over legitimate issues (huge financial/career issues going on that would have driven anyone else to move back in with their parents and go on the bottle, but i stuck out and dealt with it on my own) he would say i was depressed
>when i complained about being followed home by a transient or someone on the threatening me with bodily harm, I was just anxious and stressed out and "i needed to stop telling [bf] because it was making him stressed"

holy fuck i'm glad i got out of there. the more i think back the more clarity i get and the more convinced i am that i dodged a bullet. i wasn't allowed to tell my own bf about literal borderline assault because it would make him stressed out, are you fucking kidding me. if i see that bastard again i'm gonna break his nose.

Anonymous 43248

>>43240
>caring about marvel movies
This should have been a huge warning sign from the start. Out of interest where did you meet? University?

Anonymous 43254

>>43248
tinder and every guy is into this soyboy shit now

Anonymous 43257

>>43254
>tinder
You have only yourself to blame.

Anonymous 43324

>>43254
>dating a soyboy
oh no

Anonymous 43325

>>43240
>if he told me an opinion i disagreed with, i would accept it
Are you saying he made you agree to accept it in advance or did he mentally force you to agree with what he was saying?

Anonymous 43522

>>43325
i can accept that someone holds different opinions than me, without judging them or freaking out or demanding that they change their opinion to match mine.

he was not capable of that.

Anonymous 43525

Gaslighting is a twitter buzzword that has had its meaning stretched so wide it means literally fuck all anymore.

Just like all twitter buzzwords.

Anonymous 43580

>>43525
Yep. Nowadays, arguing with strangers who disagree with you already counts as "gaslighting".

Anonymous 43581

>>43525
>I have opinion x about subject y.
>excuse me, but isn't opinion x a little bit of an overreaction?
>REEEE STOP GASLIGHTING MEEEE!!!!
Pretty much all it is now.

Anonymous 55516

>>16983
Bullshit.

Anonymous 55517

>>55516
This. A lot of people ITT don't understand because they haven't had a relationship with a narcissist.

Anonymous 55519

>>55517
I think the key word is "everyone". If one or two people in your life are "gaslighting" they may be gaslighting. If lots of people in your life are "gaslighting" they probably arent gaslighting, you are probably warping things inside your head and/or they are reacting to your behaviour. The probability of being in regular contact with a lot of people who are such strong narcissists to the point where they want to manipulate you into thinking you are crazy is very small.

Anonymous 55520

>>55519
Toxic and shitty people tend to cluster together though. It can often run strongly through a whole family or community. Also some people give off the vibe of being an easy victim and will attract these types of people more than others. Not to say you're totally wrong, but there are a lot of situations where everyone around you can be a bunch of manipulative assholes and it's not because you are crazy (though it could be because of dynamics you were socialized with when growing up)

Anonymous 55522

>>55520
Toxic people tend to end up alone, not clustered together. They drive away everyone as nobody wants to deal with their shit if they can help it. Narcissists self centered nature also means that they dont get along with other narcissists as their egos clash, so its not like they all band together as some motley crew of outcasts. You are right that some peoples personalities do attract narcissists more than others, but they are usually naive and easily manipulatable and generally dont think that the narcissists are actually narcissists, hence how they fall prey to them. OP calls everyone in her life a gaslighter, indicating the exact opposite of trusting naivety, a defensive paranoia, and so is probably not a ripe target for a manipulator. So OP is probably not at the centre of a mythical cluster of narcissists, who once again generally cant stand each other and so dont tend to form clusters. Instead it is probably her.

Anonymous 55523

>>55520
Or you could just be the type of attractive, successful, empathetic person who has never been targeted by a sociopath before, that narcissists love to hate.

Anonymous 55524

>>55523
This sounds kind of delusional tbh. Successful people usually have their wits about them, hence how they are successful, and surround themselves with people that they like, not people that they think are manipulative assholes. Narcissists usually go after the weak and gullible, not the strong and discerning. Unless of course you are in politics, but then there is this whole other system of rewards in place that attracts and keeps a bunch of assholes sticking together.

Anonymous 55527

>>55524
You have only read about narcissists in books, it seems.

Anonymous 55528

>>55524
So you would make a perfect target.

Anonymous 55529

>>55528
Quite possibly. I may even be being manipulated in my life right now.

>>55527
And you have delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex.

Anonymous 55531

>>55529
>Successful people usually have their wits about them, hence how they are successful, and surround themselves with people that they like, not people that they think are manipulative assholes.
Like movie stars with their managers, agents, and entourages. All of stellar character, I'm sure.

Anonymous 55532

>>55529
The world is not so black and white.

Anonymous 55533

>>55531
I said people that they like, not people that are good for them. OP hates everyone and thinks they are trying to gaslight her.

Anonymous 55534

1618187812839.jpg

If you get called crazy all the time, chances are that you really are. Most of the times it's not all of society that is wrong, it's just you.

Anonymous 55535

>>55533
Betrayal never comes from someone in whom we have little emotional investment. Like Caesar and Brutus. "Et tu, Brute?" Caesar's dying words, as his dear friend Brutus plunged a knife into his guts.

Anonymous 55536

>>55533
OP sounds quite sane and reasonable to me. Her boyfriend is a narcissist, and men on the internet typically defend their misogyny with great vehemence.

Anonymous 55537

>>55535
It goes without saying that people that you like can actually turn out to be bad and try and manipulate you, but usually people arent surrounded by such manipulators unless there is some massive draw to them like money or fame. Even then, once you believe that these people are manipulators, you dont then keep them around like OP is doing. Keep in mind OP isnt probably an uber wealthy movie star as well, so there is not likely to be some massive incentive to manipulate her above others. So one person gaslighting her, maybe thats correct, lots of people, probably not.

Anonymous 55538

>>55536
>Everyone tells me I'm crazy
>Must be their fault, they just hate women and I haven't done anyone wrong!
Sounds like the opposite of reasonable to me. How about looking at yourself first when someone accuses you of something such as being crazy?

Anonymous 55542

>>55540
Really doesn't surprise me that people call you crazy, it's not because you're a woman.

Anonymous 55543

>>55540
Thats more of a difference in what either party in a relationship thinks is important. Guys pretty much universally watch porn for example, so dont generally think its a big deal, its something they all do. So then asking them to stop is asking them to stop doing something that pretty much every guy does, obviously a big deal for most guys. Also men and women can deal with trauma in different ways, for example throwing yourself into your work or drinking yourself into a stupor and breaking down in tears and some people find things traumatic that other people simply shrug off. Some people like to dwell in tragedy and wallow at the expense of the rest of their life, other people just like to spend as little time thinking about it as possible and put a lot of distance between themselves and the event at the expense of their emotional health.

Anonymous 55544

>>55537
The draw could be merely being a young attractive woman. It is a sufficient draw for 100% of men, many of whom are "manipulators." Many of whom think women are oversensitive for wanting to be treated with a modicum of human decency.

Anonymous 55546

>>55543
Rape and sexual abuse are pretty traumatic. Until very recently, historically speaking, both were considered to be the fault of the victim, or at least a shameful blot on the victim's virtue, to be hushed up at all costs. This is a form of gaslighting.

Anonymous 55547

>>55544
That wont explain the high concentration of narcissists and manipulators around a single person. If she is attractive them she would attract most men equally, so she would get something close to a cross section of the male population, with no segment particularly over-represented. However OP claims to be surrounded by gaslighters, a particularly nasty type of narcissistic manipulator, and not super common in the general population. So either most men are gaslighters, or she for some reason has attracted a super concentrate of gaslighters into her life, or no gaslighting is really occurring (at least on the scale she suggests) and its all in OPs head.

Anonymous 55548

>>55547
A more careful reading of OP's posts reveals a person who:
-has a narcissist boyfriend
-sees similar piggy behaviors in various platonic interactions with men online.

Anonymous 55549

>>55546
Thats not gaslighting, the victim is not being deliberately manipulating into doubting their sanity or senses. Saying "rape is the victims fault" is not gaslighting, it is obviously incorrect, but it is still not gaslighting. When rape was hushed up it wasnt because the victim was thought to be insane for not liking being raped, but for various social stigmas. Once again not gaslighting.

Anonymous 55550

>>55547
> If she is attractive them she would attract most men equally, so she would get something close to a cross section of the male population

Not true. She would attract those with higher risk-taking behavior or status. Men approaching an attractive woman is a very risky action for him due to how much he stands to lose status and self-esteem wise.

Anonymous 55551

>>55547
An attractive woman IS usually surrounded by men trying to manipulate their way into her pants. Take the common example of a man who befriends a woman in order to sleep with her. The woman taking his declaration of friendship at face value is being gaslighted, and is often hurt and disappointed when he suddenly reveals his true intentions, is passed up, becomes irrationally angry and huffily ends the "friendship" that she thought was true.

Anonymous 55552

>>55550
Good point for sexual partners, but not for general male relationships. All men love to be close to pretty women and be around them and be friends with them (though they would obviously like to be more). So though her sexual partners may be more likely to have an inflated sense of ego she should still have a large number or male friends and acquaintances who dont want to gaslight her, and a fair number of sexual partners who dont.

Anonymous 55553

>>55551
Gaslighting is a much more serious level of manipulation than just lying to someone, its a direct attack on the persons sanity, so only a particularly devious and malicious brand of manipulator is going to do that, something beyond that of the average dude trying to get laid.

Anonymous 55554

>>55549
>Saying "rape is the victims fault" is not gaslighting
What? Using social coerscion to make a victim believe that she was somehow responsible or to blame for being brutally assaulted is crazy making, and the very definition of gaslighting.

Anonymous 55555

>>55551
Translation:
>Dude falls in love with female friend, confesses and then leaves after getting rejected
How is this "gaslighting" or manipulation?

Anonymous 55556

>>55554
No its not. Saying "you got raped because you did X" is not the same thing as saying "you didnt do Y, Y didnt happen, you are imagining things, you are crazy". One is an opinion as to the cause of an event, the other denies something the other person claimed to have seen or done and suggests the person just imagined it. There is a difference between the two.

Anonymous 55557

>>55552
Are you saying this because you think she attracts so many men that there's no way there aren't a good number of them who have good intentions? Men do the "let's be friends" bit because they are either too timid to be upfront with their intentions and/or they are told the best way to form relationships is to start platonic and grow it from there. If a man wants to spend one-on-one time with you either activity or conversation wise, he wants you and the more you feed that the biggest the resentment the rejection will create.

The more attractive you are, the more men want to stake their claim, the more likely their intentions are to seduce you. Attractive women have it worse in that regard and do not simply have a higher sample size.

Anonymous 55558

>>55552
OP only mentions her bf, and then makes a general statement about misogynist men minimizing the impact of sexism on women, which, is a very prevalent form of gaslighting. Like calling independent women witches, blaming them for the common illnesses of cattle and the withering of crops, and then burning them at the stake. Woman who don't conform to traditional, draconian ideas of femininity are routinely ostracized, called crazy, and often put to death. I can't believe you haven't noticed this. Perhaps you yourself are gaslighting people at this very moment, by a mendaciously held trust in the honor of men.

Anonymous 55559

>>55558
The problem with gaslighting as a term is I feel like it implies intentionality. I don't think most sexist moids are trying to trick women, they are just so incapable of empathizing with a woman's perspective that they don't understand what you are talking about when you complain.

Anonymous 55560

>>55557
Yes thats what I am saying. As I said there will definitely be a skew towards narcissists and manipulators due to higher risk taking tendencies, but the ring of orbiters that an attractive woman… well attracts will statistically have a decent proportion of men who dont want to gaslight her. They will probably all want to get in her pants, and most wont tell her this, but she should still have a large amount of men around her that dont want to convince her that she is insane for their own purposes. Gaslighting is not simply lying about wanting to be friends, its a direct attack on the persons sanity.

Anonymous 55561

>>16984

Gaslighting takes many forms other than the baldfaced denial of events as they have unfolded in reality.
Please refer to
>>>>55556
for a brief lesson in a few of the tactics used by gaslighters.

Anonymous 55562

>>55560

Ok I agree with that. However, I do believe that if the woman did give him everything he wanted, he will feel emboldened enough and will turn tyrannical. But in their orbiter state, they are harmless.

Anonymous 55563

>>55559
They don't understand and often refute a woman's reality which is a form of gaslighting, intentional or not. Read your Kafka.

Anonymous 55564

>>55563
Am I also gaslighting if I refute a "man's reality" because I don't understand it?

Anonymous 55565

>>55560

>They will probably all want to get in her pants, and most wont tell her this,

Making her feel crazy and confused when they suddenly get angry, blame her for not wanting sex, and end what she thought was a friendship in a vengeful way. Gaslighting. Lying to someone about your intentions, purposely leading them to believe in a false version of reality, in order to manipulate them.

Anonymous 55566

>>55561
>>55561
Literally all those things could also be used without the intention to convince someone that they are insane. Using that post there is literally no way of knowing whether the person is or is not being gaslit, as the post presupposes knowing both the thoughts of the gaslighter and the gaslightee, something which doesnt happen in real life.
How are you supposed to know when a gaslighter is "pretending to have forgotten what has occurred" or "the victim accurately remembers events" as opposed to "the person has actually forgotten" and "the victim really doesnt accurately remember events".

Anonymous 55567

>>55565
Way to make "falling in love with a friend" as dramatic as it gets to make it fit your views

Anonymous 55568

>>55564
If you're feeding them a line in order to uphold and possibly benefit from misandry, then yes. If you called a man a "pussy" for crying over something valid, for instance, because his tears made you uncomfortable.

Anonymous 55569

>>55568
You sound like one of those braindead TikTok hardcore feminists

Anonymous 55570

>>55569
You reveal yourself a moid, sir, and I apologize to the moderators for inadvertently responding to your posts at such great length.

Anonymous 55571

>>55565
If a man gets turned down by a woman he doesnt call her crazy, usually its something along the lines of "bitch". But thats just hurt feelings talking rather than an intentional effort to cause the woman to question her sanity. Also any relatively attractive woman with at least two brain cells knows that most men in her life want to sleep with her, and that if he goes in a sulk when she turns his advances down its not because she is nuts but because he feels hurt after putting himself in a vulnerable position and getting shut down.

Anonymous 55572

>>55566
>the victim doesn't accurately remember events
Things a gaslighter would say

Anonymous 55573

>>55565
>Lying to someone about your intentions, purposely leading them to believe in a false version of reality, in order to manipulate them.
This literally makes all lying gaslighting. Congrats you have just replaced the word "lying" in the dictionary with "gaslighting".

Anonymous 55574

>>55570
yeah whatever you say, keep inventing more buzzwords to make things that upset you sound "problematic"

Anonymous 55575

>>55572
damn you got me. I guess victims always accurately remember events.

Anonymous 55576

>>55572
Well no one accurately remembers anything, but people tend to remember how they felt pretty well. It's a pretty useless statement outside of a criminal trial.

Anonymous 55577

>>55571
Getting called a bitch for acting reasonably, rationally. So many women are gaslighted in this way. And this is the point that OP was trying to make. Woman are so often labelled bitches, or alternatively, the old saw, "crazy bitch" for reacting normally to ill treatment by men.

Anonymous 55578

>>55577
You're saying this as if it happens to every woman, when it's really just hardcore crazy leftists like you. You aren't being called crazed because men hate women, you're just crazy.

Anonymous 55579

>>55575
Most people would remember being raped, I suppose. Maybe not. Maybe most rape victims are "crazy" and have an "active imagination."

Anonymous 55580

>>55579
Questions of criminal guilt need something a little more substantial than just a memory.

Anonymous 55581

>>55578
>you're just crazy
Yes, I'm sure all feminists are crazy for noticing sexism in their daily lives. Find me a woman who has never been called a bitch for turning down a man's sexual advances. I feel certain that such an unusually lucky woman exists somewhere.

Anonymous 55582

>>55580
And yet most women clearly remember it when they are raped. It haunts them even when they are told it didn't happen, or when defense lawyers call them a slut or try to claim the sex was consensual because they were wearing a miniskirt when it happened.

Anonymous 55583

>>55581
Most modern 3rd wave feminists are crazy for imagining sexism where there is none, yeah. You just don't wanna take responsibility for your shitty life so you claim it's everyone elses fault and that society treats you unfairly for something that is completely out of your control. Really convenient how 0 blame falls on you in that alternate reality you created.

Anonymous 55584

DA7BF31C-B81C-4F3D…

So many black knight males itt

Anonymous 55585

>>55583
Sounds like projection

Anonymous 55600

>>55583
Spoken like a true moidcell. Very inventive skewing of facts to defend sexism. Bravo! :)

Anonymous 55608

>>55578
You act like you've never walked past a sleazy guy on a dark street corner who says, "Pssst! Hey Mami! You wanna fuck?" And just as you pass by him without acknowledging his hissed comment, he hastily adds, "Bitch!" in a threatening tone because you failed to drop trow immediately.

Anonymous 55658

>>16979
Is your example really gaslighting, I think of it as something more extreme than that basically akin to brainwashing. It is just him not being receptive to your feelings and blaming you for being mad at something he does. "It doesn't offend me so you shouldn't be offended either."



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