The fact that most men watch porn even when theyre in a relationship makes me wants to die. How the fuck am I supposed to find a bf when 99% of men are coomers because they cant stop themselves to save their life from jacking off to a screen. I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel. You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn. Anyone else feel this way?
Pornography is evil. The consoomers, and the "performers" are victims. May men end up with a porn addiction as they are never warned of the dangers of pornography. In fact, sex education classes usually promote the usage of pornography.
If a man truly loves you, and you truly love him, then together you can shatter his porn addiction. Most men absolutely hate their addiction, but the grip of a decade-long addiction is usually too much for them to put an end to on their own.
My ex's porn addiction basically ruined my 5 year long relationship. I tried to make it work but it was too painful especially after seeing he had added a bunch of girls on snapchat.
My current bf only watches hentai occasionally but I do too so I don't really care. We almost always get off together.
>>36665>a free and open commercial agreement made by two consenting adults>bad
Uh oh, be careful there. You're just a step away from slavery.
Humans are weak and freedom is a sham. I would sooner be dead than shackled down by vices and animalistic urges and addictions.
This topic has been brought up a few times and I can't relate. My boyfriend doesn't watch porn, not because he's not horny but because we just have sex? Do your boyfriends really tell you "Sorry honey, no sex tonight, I'd rather jerk off to porn"?
We both really like anime art so we do come across a lot of sexy art and porn, but he's never gone "No sex babe I'm jerking off tonight".
>You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn.
The girls in porn can't fuck him, call him by his name, wear the exact lingerie he loves or enthusiastically smile at him and tell him "I love you" while riding him.
And he also doesn't look as good as anime pretty boys lol.
I am in the same situation as you. Life is good.
>>36663>I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel
It making you feel shitty doesn't indicate that all women in the world would be bothered by that, or would even care. There are women who watch porn and have male partners that don't, and their partners are completely fine with that.
>You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn
This sentence shows that your problem is less with the consumption of porn and more with the fact that others consuming it causes a personal insecurity about your appearance to rise. Beauty is entirely subjective and there will always be women "prettier" than you and women "uglier" than you, not only in porn, but at the local grocery store or the library.
>Anyone else feel this way?
I'm a married woman with an active sex life and no. I'm not so insecure that I have an emotional breakdown over the thought of my husband being stimulated by what is intended to be - shocker - sexually-stimulating imagery, and he isn't either.
I have a different approach: my bf and me do like to watch porn before sex sometimes. There are a few good clips out there and we always search for them together on different platforms. Usually we criticise every single detail for fun. =D. Some of them are even outstanding or niche-ish or artistically or just wtf am I watching so we don't delete them.
A Quality Time hobby kind of thing.
if you dont like them jacking off, fuck them, retard
Why do people constantly mistake being anti-porn for being anti-masturbation as if it were biologically impossible to get off without explicit visual stimuli? I see males everywhere making themselves out to be the victims of what they call "crazy controlling women who want to strip them of their right to diddle themselves" even though I heavily doubt most of the girls in question would mind their partner's masturbatory habits if they weren't inseparable from the daily viewing of material that 1) has been repeatedly proven to (consciously or not) warp your perception, affect the ability to pairbond and be as addictive as cocaine 2) is rooted in a very shady and exploitative industry 3) can be considered emotional cheating, as for men most of the appeal comes from the actresses and not the sex acts themselves. Unlike for masturbation itself, which has been around since the dawn of man and can serve as a (mostly, unless you're addicted to just
getting off - but in the vast majority of cases it's the porn that causes the problem) healthy way to relieve tension etc, there is absolutely nothing positive that can be said about online porn, no matter how you look at it. It's a blight upon society as humans are engulfed from a very young and vulnerable age by an industry that preys upon their basest of instincts, our brains were not made to handle this level of accessibility to overt sexual stimuli.
I agree with most of the points you've made, except for>can be considered emotional cheating, as for men most of the appeal comes from the actresses and not the sex acts themselves.
To compare the consumption of pornography to violating the trust and breaking the romantic and sexual bond between two people is to misunderstand the function of sexually-stimulating media (and the reason why humans do, and always have, enjoyed sexually-stimulating media.) The same people who think this are the people who think that once someone is attracted to someone else in a romantic or sexual sense, they must only be attracted to or aroused by that person from that point on, which actively denies biology (anyone who has had exes is evidence of this) and treats humans and their bodily autonomy as a form of private property. Just as a human is not a slave to someone else for their labor, no one is a slave to someone else for their attraction or as a service to provide sexual interaction. This discourse is also the reason why the social phenomenon of inaccurate, problematic conflation between monogamy and polygamy, and the idea of "cheating", is so prevalent now.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, this way of thinking seems far more rooted in personal insecurity about one's appearance or ability to hold a stable, mutually-beneficial relationship than it does about the harm of modern pornography. If you're willing to end a relationship because your partner eyed an attractive stranger while out in public, as if noticing that other humans are attractive somehow violates your partnership, romantic bond, or any loving act you and your partner have expressed towards one another in the history of your relationship… you have jealousy and insecurity issues that you need to work out. It's understandable that people would rather blame a modern invention for their interpersonal issues than admit that their way of thinking about themselves or their love life is flawed, but sexually-stimulating media has always existed and will always exist, even without the harms caused by the modern format of it, because we are sexual beings.
>>36683>>but sexually-stimulating media has always existed
No, it hasn't. inb4 cave paintings. Why are you actually defending pornography? I'm asking on what emotional level are you doing this. I'm not asking you to provide another weak argument like cave paintings and "you're just insecure".
…Who mentioned anything about cave paintings, except you? You seem really upset.
Then what else is there?
I can tell by your post that you are emotionally invested in the argument. Hidden behind it is subconscious emotion and ideology. That's what I'd like to understand about you.
I'll be open with you. I believe that porn has hurt a lot of people, that's why I would never support it. I don't see why it needs to be a part of any relationship.
Lot of defensive moids in this thread. OP, all you can do is make it clear how you feel about porn and why (it’s exploitative, etc) and tell your partner you don’t feel comfortable dating someone who watches porn. I think a big tipoff towards how they feel would be mentioning porn actors and prostitutes and seeing how they react. Are they sympathetic towards them or do they see them as “dumb whores”. How do they treat women in general? Do they talk badly about all the women in their life or more badly about things women do compared to similar things done by men? Would you consider them a feminist? On a first date or even chatting beforehand, bring up these topics as way to filter out the coomers. Any man who gets defensive or just doesn’t seem to know much about women’s issues is very likely a coomer.
Your post makes it sound as if nothing less than barging into someone's house for a passionate all-night-long fuck session unbeknownst to your partner can be defined as "violating the trust and breaking the romantic and sexual bond". There are many more nuanced things than would not be at all unreasonable for the other party to consider a breach of trust. A monogamous relationship is a mutual agreement not to act on attraction to other people. I don't think anyone here genuinely believes noticing an attractive stranger is a threat to their relationship, but actively seeking out
attractive strangers on a daily basis, religiously following pages dedicated to them, often leaving comments or even trying to contact the girls themselves as many men do is just delving deep into a grey are that IMO more than falls under the 'act' terrority, and it's perfectly natural to have an adverse reaction to such a habit, especially for people who don't practice it themselves. Agreeing to share your sexuality exclusively with each other is not 'making your partner a slave', it's a valid basis to form a relationship on, and 'violating trust' can be individually defined and achieved by things other than straight up fucking other people. To give a few examples, there are guys that are okay with their girlfriends 'jokingly' flirting with their male friends, do you think the ones that aren't are insecure and in the wrong? There are girls that are fine with guys not just watching, but interacting with cam models, do you think the ones that aren't are insecure and in the wrong? Where do you think the line is drawn?
>>36687>Hidden behind it is subconscious emotion and ideology. That's what I'd like to understand about you.
I'd say this applies to all posts on the internet. I also posted >>36674
if you'd like a little more context for my viewpoint. You, too, seem emotionally invested in the conversation, since you immediately interpreted my response (which was not directed at any specific person except OP, unless you are OP) as "defending pornography" despite the first line of the post you replied to stating "I agree with most of the points you've made".
All of the reasons why I defend human sexuality and bodily autonomy, which in your opinion seemingly applies solely to modern (1990s-2020s) pornography and nothing else, are stated in the post you replied to. We're sexual beings by nature, romantic and sexual interactions being inherent to our species' social structure, and have been even before written language. As art and literature have always been visual manifestations of human life and the human experience, romantic and sexual interaction is part of that, whether the visual depictions of that aspect are intended to cause arousal in the viewer or not. Being that I'm one of those sexual beings, I don't judge other people for the fact that they are aroused by sexually-stimulating media or even aroused by situations or things in real life, as someone else could easily do the same to me. If you genuinely believe that pornography and sexually-stimulating media didn't exist prior to the popularization of digital technology and the internet in the late 1990s, I can't help you with that.
I don't have any basis to make assumptions about you or your life with complete accuracy, given that we're both on an anonymous imageboard, but judging by your posts alone you do seem deeply hurt by the idea of other humans feeling sexual attraction. I get the idea that someone in your life consuming some form of sexually-stimulating media (or you thinking that they have) has personally offended and hurt you, leading to you making interpreting claims made by strangers on the internet as indirect contributions to the situation which hurt you. You never responded to, or explained your opposing reasoning, to any of what I stated in my post - you went straight to anger. With all due respect, I'll reinstate;>t's understandable that people would rather blame a modern invention for their interpersonal issues than admit that their way of thinking about themselves or their love life is flawed, but sexually-stimulating media has always existed and will always exist, even without the harms caused by the modern format of it, because we are sexual beings.
>>36690>Your post makes it sound as if nothing less than barging into someone's house for a passionate all-night-long fuck session unbeknownst to your partner can be defined as "violating the trust and breaking the romantic and sexual bond"
Emphasis on "unbeknownst to your partner" - the fact that the committing of the act is unbeknownst and without the consent of all parties involved is what makes that situation a breach of trust, not the act itself.
>A monogamous relationship is a mutual agreement not to act on attraction to other people
This is true, and not wrong in any way. The issue is that in our society, there's the presence of "compulsory monogamy" (similar to compulsory heterosexuality), the idea and social norm that any and all people are born monogamous and always will be monogamous until they state otherwise, which will then result in them being shamed and socially ostracized for having a romantic or sexual orientation not pre-approved and condoned by the culture and the state.
>I don't think anyone here genuinely believes noticing an attractive stranger is a threat to their relationship
I, too, would like to believe this, but many posts here as well as statements made by women I know in real life have proven me wrong in thinking so.
>actively seeking out attractive strangers on a daily basis, religiously following pages dedicated to them, often leaving comments or even trying to contact the girls themselves as many men do is just delving deep into a grey are that IMO more than falls under the 'act' terrority, and it's perfectly natural to have an adverse reaction to such a habit, especially for people who don't practice it themselves
If a person enters a romantic relationship under the mutual agreement that neither parties will act on any feelings of attraction or arousal to anyone else, then yes, these acts are wrong. Though, the issue here is that most people in relationships today enter relationships without ever asking for this consent or even discussing the topic - this comes back to my point about the issue with our society's "compulsory monogamy", where you'll be shamed if you state that you aren't a monogamous person or don't want to engage in monogamous relationships, but if you don't explicitly state that in order to avoid the social ostracization, you'll be harming whoever you enter a relationship with. This conundrum is further complicated by our society's moral-and-social-puritanical views on sex and human relationships, which admittedly are slowly withering.
For the record, I generally agree with your sentiments, and your post seems to show the most acute understanding of this problem other than simply "sex bad!!!" I don't feel as if any one person can decide where the line is drawn, including me. The issue can only be solved by the eradication of "compulsory monogamy" which would need to be caused by the eradication of moral-and-social-puritanical values, and would lead to these types of situations (such as "cheating") occurring far less often, ironically.
Nta but I agree with you about abolishing monogamy as a norm BECAUSE I am "naturally monogamous" myself. It's a great way to separate those who truly want a monogamous relationship from those who want poly (and would be unhappy/cheat in a forced mono relationship).
For example, a girl I had mutual feelings for a few years ago (I'm not a man before anyone says it, just bi) happened to be polyamorous. The fact that she was open about it was good since I could choose to not pursue a relationship with her. I've also seen other women on dating apps who say they're poly so no one has to waste time.
Just seems positive to me, though I do think most men would then be polyam. I'm not a gay man, but open relationships at least seem prevalent among them.
Instead of making polygamy legal, we should just send them all to a gulag
>>36696>though I do think most men would then be polyam.
They wouldn't. In theory most men would want multiple wives, but in practice, in polygamous societies only the most powerful men can make multiple women agree (or be forced) to marry the same man.
Because polygamists are subhuman
And I want to add, I don't believe anyone is "naturally" monogamous or polygamous. People support monogamy when it's in their advantage and polygamy when it's in their advantage (or at least when they perceive those practices as being in their advantage).
They would actively want it though, which is my point.
Whether they have one partner or multiple is irrelevant to my point since they'd still be open to searching. The girl I mentioned only had one partner at the time but would still have dated me.
Would they potentially lie and be shitty, as they do about pump-and-dumps? Perhaps. Men will always be men so that's one flaw in my logic. Also there can still be cheating in poly relationships.>>36701
I generally agree, that's why I put it in quotations for me. Monogamy simply works better for me considering my personality, ideals, and social behaviour. But my "natural" sexuality allows me to be attracted to multiple people, there's just a very minimal impulse for me to act on it.
Though I have heard of people (even on here) who lose attraction to everyone but their partner.>>36700
>>36703>Whether they have one partner or multiple is irrelevant to my point since they'd still be open to searching.
But that is relevant because if they only have one partner, they don't want her sleeping with other people. So they'd be against polygamy if they perceive their partner to be more likely to get another man than they are to get another woman. Men cheat more because they have a greater desire to, but women have the greater capacity to cheat, even if they do it less.
Besides, in modern society (assuming you live in a first world country) people are always "open to searching". Monogamy isn't enforced in the way it's traditionally been. Sure, you can't marry multiple people, but you can date multiple people, divorce is relatively easy, and there's no legal ramification for adultery.
>>36696kills ur society in two generations
pshh nothing personnel ki- kid? oh nobody is having any and there's no fathers oh god someone why did we go down this path.
>>36707>kills ur society in two generations
so what tbh
A well-explained compelling argument was too difficult to find, I take it?
>>36663>How the fuck am I supposed to find a bf when 99% of men are coomers because they cant stop themselves to save their life from jacking off to a screen
Don't date coomers, it's that simple. It's easy to detect if a guy is a coomer. The problem isn't that porn is evil, but that a lot of guys are screen-addicted man children who worship their digital mother instead of interfacing with reality.
Just avoid consoomers and coomers and go for outdoorsy philosopher types
I do not have to argue on an Ingushetian basket weaving imageboard with people who will not change their minds
Not all men would be constantly watching porn everyday. I can see it being a occasional thing to most. Sex is sometimes a lot of hard work, masturbating is easier. Porn just makes it easier an faster to get to the climax.
ur average dude masturbates 1-2 a day. def not occasional anon.
I have my suspicions that on average we're not far behind that number, anon.
not sure about that but it doesn't really matter. i was more talking in the context of porn consumption and statics says that men make up the majority of porn consoomers.
>>36674> insecurity insecurity insecurity
People can be uncomfortable about their partner lusting after others, I'm sorry if to you romance is dead and everything's whatever but some people have higher standards than that. Women think it's ok and don't kinKsHamE when another woman wants to get abused and degraded in bed because that's what she wants her sex life to be, but being attracted to extreme devotion and monogamy is beyond the pale and pathological to you? Why do you think that is?> there will always be women "prettier" than you and women "uglier" than you, not only in porn, but at the local grocery store or the library
He's not taking his pants off and cooming while staring at these women though, conditioning himself to get off to random girls. People being upset about porn, but not upset about other things that would cause similar insecurity, also seems to indicate that you've misdiagnosed the reason.
Are you this poster?>>36684>>36687
>but being attracted to extreme devotion and monogamy is beyond the pale and pathological to you? Why do you think that is?
Where did anyone in this thread say that? I'm in a monogamous marriage.
>He's not taking his pants off and cooming while staring at these women though, conditioning himself to get off to random girls
Your use of the phrase "random girls" is odd. If you're currently in a relationship with a man, you were a "random girl" to him before he met you. Everyone that has ever engaged romantically with someone else was a "random person" before they met.
No, that was my first post in this thread.
Sure, just substitute with "monogamous both in his interactions between other people and in whether or not he likes to watch other people while he masturbates". Why nitpick on this, I'm sure people would agree it's more monogamous-in-spirit to not watch porn, even if many people also don't think of it as cheating? If not, this still doesn't change the substance of the post in any way. Some people want their relationship to be more romantic and devoted in that way, so again, why do so many women have this ubiquitous need to label this as insecurity?
>Your use of the phrase "random girls" is odd, you were a "random girl" to him before he met you
Ok, but what does any of your response have to do with what was discussed?
Have more sex with him?
> You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn.
Men don't care and know porn is just an elaborate fantasy. Unless you date incels lol.
>>36788>I'm sure people would agree it's more monogamous-in-spirit to not watch porn, even if many people also don't think of it as cheating?
I'd agree that most people think that. How does that mean that monogamous relationships should, on a social and cultural level, be preferred to or perceived as superior to polygamous relationships? You should read my prior posts about compulsory monogamy, >>36691
>Some people want their relationship to be more romantic and devoted in that way, so again, why do so many women have this ubiquitous need to label this as insecurity?
My initial post referred specifically to OP's post, which was about pornography, not relationships. OP never indicated that she is or was in any kind of relationship (her wording choice, such as "How the fuck am I supposed to find a bf", implies otherwise), said "I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel" implying that this is something all
women should inherently be upset by (because everyone on the planet is monogamous, right?), and also said "You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn" which is quite a blatant, face-value sentiment showing that her feelings towards pornography are correlated to her negative perception of herself. I'm not sure how you interpreted my post as an attack on monogamous people or monogamous relationships, since if you'd read this thread you'd have realized that my posts are critiques of OP's anti-porn and anti-human-sexuality rhetoric.
>Ok, but what does any of your response have to do with what was discussed?
Your post directly implied that finding "random girls" sexually stimulating is a negative thing, which it is not (unless, of course, the idea of someone else doing so causes you to feel insecure about yourself, due to your own personal issues.) Before you respond with "but the relationship's supposed to be monogamous!", again, read this thread's prior posts about compulsory monogamy.
I don't really understand why you've come to a thread that was obviously made by monogamous-oriented woman and is populated by monogamous oriented-women seeking monogamous relationships to preach equality for polygamy. "Compulsory" or not this is what a lot of women here desire, and it can be frustrating to know men in general operate on a completely different level.
>>36794>obviously populated by monogamous oriented-women seeking monogamous relationships>"Compulsory" or not this is what a lot of women here desire
You really don't understand what "compulsory monogamy" is, huh?
I'm going by what you've made it out to be so far which doesn't change the fact that barely 1/3 of your posts' contents are in any way relevant to OP's issue. Not a single anon complained about the possibility of their partner perhaps finding mrs cashier at the corner store attractive, only their conscious choice to continuously jack off to said cashier, displaying a level of devotion that is mismatched to anon's. This is not an issue of what should and should not be "on a social and cultural level be preferred to or perceived as superior", it's an issue of what we personally want and finding it hard to find a connection that fulfills our emotional needs.
How does one get to this level of muddled argumentation, even in the caping for coomers olympics? Most of this has nothing at all to do with the points in the above messages.
Is your sex drive much lower than your boyfriend’s, OP?
tl;dr your husband jerks off to women being abused and raped, you do too, and you're both horrible people.
It's not bait. The porn industry is evil and by supporting it you are complicit in the rape of thousands of women and girls and the negative impact it has on young children, such as child-on-child sexual abuse. (Because young boys learn that degrading/raping girls is "normal" and they test it out on younger girls.) Porn normalizes rape and that's a fact.
so you know I'm right and can't refute me, huh?
>>36839>young boys learn that degrading/raping girls is "normal" and they test it out on younger girls
men don't "learn" to rape they been doing that even before porn ever existed.
Anon, save your breath, she thinks porn didn't exist before the internet did.
im not the retard you're arguing with, retard
Of course they have and of course it did but to think that such easily accessible and massive consumption of (predominantly) degrading and abusive porn nowadays doesn't have an impact on youth and men is just fucking ignorant.
Sorry I can't tell the tone/intention of your image. I figured it was sarcastic.
Libfems who have their blinders on to the damage porn does are ridiculous.
Whether or not porn is inherently bad or harmful (I'm inclined to think it is but it's complicated and I don't know how things could get better), there's a huge difference between "normal"/healthy porn consumption (in the context we're in where porn is so normalized), and being a porn-ruined coomer. Both guys I've dated have been like this. Like, in an ideal world I would prefer my partner not use porn, but if I can't have that, why can't men see that it's shitty to me AND THEMSELVES to ruin their sex drives and sexual responses by overindulging in porn??
My 1st BF had issues having an orgasm with me for our entire 3 year relationship. The first time he came inside me was like 2 months after we first started having sex, and I took his virginity! When he did come from sex, he would often finish by rolling me over and half suffocating me laying on top of me to get the exact right angle and speed he needed to cum. At one point he straight up told me that he had a hard time cumming with me because he was "used to being able to click from girl to girl" when masturbating and that had ruined his attention span. I have shit self esteem but I'm glad I had enough to just chalk that up as an ok retard moment and not hate myself for it.
My current BF isn't nearly as bad, but he fucks with our sex life a lot by not being able to control his urge to masturbate at random times of the day. I don't really like having sex during the day often, and I told him I wanted to have sex at night before we went to bed or around that time. SO MANY TIMES I've wanted to have sex at night and he's already jerked off to porn that day. And he's emotionally abusive to me about our poor sex life but refuses to change this habit. Is it unreasonable to say that if you're going to get mad at me for not having sex with you enough, you should be able to hold your cum for fucking half a day to wait and have sex at a time I'm comfortable with? I suspect that the porn Reddit subs/Twitter accounts he follows are one reason he gets horny during the day and he just doesn't care enough to deny himself instant gratification.
This is a PSA to break up with your coomer bfs. Do not send men the message this kind of behavior is "normal" and acceptable.
If he doesn't even make a minimal effort to understand the problem much less do anything about it it's NEVER going to get better.
Your niece could turn on the television, browse through the channels, and see violent and objectionable content far worse than that.
What's your point? Parents should be monitoring what their seven year old is watching on TV, too.
>>36669>Do your boyfriends really tell you "Sorry honey, no sex tonight, I'd rather jerk off to porn"?
You've just got a garbage boyfriend, then. I've never had any of my partners do that.
Congrats on your anecdotal success, but please don't fucking blame women for having pornsick boyfriends because you think finding an alternative is so easy. I really hate seeing women, in pinkpilled settings no less, say shit like "just don't date men who watch porn". I understand the thought process behind it but I honestly think it's victim-blaming to a certain degree. It's not our fault that so many men use porn and we shouldn't all have to be the porn version of political lesbians to be able to complain about how bad this shit is. Women didn't build the porn industry into the monster it is today and women are largely not what supports it. Dating men is hard enough, many women don't feel as if they can be selective about a thing like that when finding a safe, respectful man who views them as an equal is already difficult.
Men need to be educated, and educate among themselves, about how bad porn is and how harmful it is to relationships.
Neither of those anons, but what other advice can be given? All of the paths are:>attempt and fail to convert coomers (awful)>be miserable with a coomer (awful)>just don't date coomers (tedious, awful)>date women (impossible for str8 anons)
The only decent advice is to promote women finding comfort/fulfillment on their own while wading through shit men. Since, like you said, it's on men to change themselves.
Anons can't change men, you know.
It's bleak though, I have empathy despite being luckily bisexual. All you can do is find love from within and from friendships.
Being hard doesn't mean it it's difficult to get a date. It means it's hard to find a reasonable, respectful man who doesn't expect his girlfriend to be his therapist, his maid, his mom, and his whore. It's hard to find men who are 100% what you want, so lots of people compromise to find someone who meets at least the majority of what they want in a person.
The point isn't even about finding a male partner, or even about finding a good/respectful male partner, it's that statistically it is difficult to find a straight man who doesn't consume porn to some degree.
> In America any girl can go online and find dozens of guys messaging her
I'm not sure what your point is, this isn't what I'm talking about. Scores of male attention (which is kind of an incelly myth anyway but ymmv) doesn't take away the fact that the overwhelming majority of those men watch porn.
Just for the record I don't think that it's that crazy or self hating or settling to be with a man who uses porn to ANY degree, but a lot of women feel strongly about wanting a man who doesn't use porn at all which is valid and the empirical reality is that it's difficult to find.>>37127
I agree that there isn't really a good option, I just don't like seeing it parroted all the time in a way that can be dismissive or condescending. I also often see the "just don't date porn users" take paired with a mention of their lovely SO who doesn't use porn, which gives me pickme vibes.
Honestly if you bf isn't a coomer and you give him sex regularly he will stop watching porn. Like another person said, no normal man is going to prefer masturbation to sex.
Yes porn is bad but there is no point in making a huge deal out of this. Yes the answer literally is don't date from the minority of porn addicts.
>Almost all adults watch porn healthily.
This. Male, female, everyone.
One problem with this is that so many guys who previously have used porn, even normal amounts, are honestly just plain bad in bed because of the scripts they learn. For me it's important to feel really desired and admired by my partner, including visually, and to have a really emotional connection where we explore each others' bodies and find the things that bring the other person pleasure. I think men wreck their ability to connect in this way by clicking through countless random naked bodies over the years and seeing the same boring and unemotional scenes play out as a model of sex, even if it isn't compulsive and they'll stop in a relationship.
Every man I've been with who used to watch porn has been incapable of truly loving and emotionally deep sex, and instead kind of just focused on going through the right sequence of actions. In some men it's obvious from their "dominant" and faux confident way of trying to steer the situation, in more awkward guys it's how they hyperfocus on the script when we move from one act to the other (like they're trying to guess the correct amount of foreplay, then get some oral, then "have sex", then get me off). I just can't feel a connection with these guys, the entire situation feels pointless.
The only guy who was satisfying to me in bed had literally never been interested in porn, and he was so attuned to me and my responses, everything was just way more organic and loving, and he was visibly breathless seeing me take off my clothes and always showered me in sincere praise even after we had been together for years. The other guys complimented me too, but it was always different with them, not like this almost involuntary reaction from how much they loved and desired me specifically as a person. It just feels so much better, I don't want to go back ever, it sucks that many women don't even get to experience this.
Probably some guys who used to watch porn can also learn to act like this, but I'm a romantic and would honestly lose attraction trying to teach them from a more pragmatic standpoint. Not sure it would feel genuine either.
Of course I would be happy to know that most women can find sex satisfying with the typical man in this respect, but I'm not sure this is the case. It does seem to be a common set of problems for women that their partner is a bit self-centered in bed, there's a lack of emotional connection, or the women don't feel desired enough by their partners, and so on.
Probably porn isn't the only culprit here, but it seems pretty connected to these complaints, and I'm just describing my experience since to me the difference was so striking. Like many women, I'm used to feeling shy about my body and a bit insecure about how I look from certain angles and such, and compliments and reassurances never really helped with this. With this guy, who never conditioned himself to porn or got accustomed to these maximally sexy bodies with infinite variety, these thoughts didn't cross my mind for the first time in my life because of how attentive he was. It was just so obvious he was only focused on me, adored me 100%, and getting immersed in the moment was so effortless.
But yeah, of course it's very idealistic. I don't think I'll find another man who has literally never been into porn, so in a way it also sucks to have experienced this, because to me the other kind of sex just doesn't compare. So I do hope you're right.
>Almost all adults watch porn healthily.
No such thing when the porn industry is so damaging, but okay.
Men acting out sex how they see in porn is an incredibly common problem. Take your head out of the sand. So many men think that rough sex is the default because of how graphic and imbalanced porn is, and they think that women are just supposed to have endless screaming orgasms from a dick jackhammering away at their bits.
But anon, all sexual media ever created must be about harm, abuse, and pain, because sex is a very bad and dirty thing! Don't you know this?
I didn't say anything was a sin. Nice assumptions.
The porn industry is harmful because it promotes the abuse, trafficking, and rape of girls and women. It normalizes and profits off of harmful behaviours. That's it.
It doesn't promote that standard at all. Lots of girls and women are coerced into making porn, if they "agree" to it at all. Lots of porn on major websites is uploaded without the participants' consent, and lots of it contains underage girls and/or sexual assault. These sites profit off of girls' and women's pain, and they don't care about the victims. Along with this, some of the most popular categories of porn are incredibly abusive. They're violent, degrading, and reinforce misogynistic views and behaviours.
"Kinkshaming" is a stupid idea made up by libfems to not have their feefees hurt by having to use their brain regarding their involvement with sex and how that affects women as a whole. Kinks can and should be viewed in a critical light, and ones that cause harm should be regarded as such. It's that simple.
>>37172>Lots of girls and women are coerced into making porn, if they "agree" to it at all
If a woman expressed her natural human sexuality by creating art, literature, or visual media, including creating her own sexual media or doing sex work, you'd construe a false narrative that she doesn't really
feel good about her sexuality or want to express it, and that her desire to do so is simply the consequence of living in a patriarchal system (rather than, you know… the expression of natural human sexuality, which has occurred since the dawn of man.) The porn industry houses many harmful practices, and the production and consumption of porn as a "product" have led to a prevalence of certain problematic material, but the inaccurate conflation of modern pornography (digital video pornography from around the year 2000 and further) with human sexuality and the artistic expressions thereof does nothing for women, or any human being, except refuse them their bodily autonomy and punish them for being sexual beings.
No one is denying that the porn industry has issues or creates issues, which it does especially when a government can't or won't provide accurate sex education for civilians, resulting in civilians only receiving knowledge about sex from porn that's created to entertain and stimulate rather than educate - this is the fault of the state, not the fault of human sexuality or sexual media. As a few other anons were discussing prior, it's not a "male issue" that many men only have knowledge of human sexuality through pornography. Many women consume porn and also have their entire perception of human sexuality warped because there's nowhere else where women can safely learn about biology and sexuality. These issues are the result of centuries of the state and society promoting anti-sex puritanical (or, oppressive and inherently misogynist) values and restricting people's access to accurate, unbiased information about human sexuality, leaving everyone trying to express their natural desires while not knowing how to functionally do so. It's simply being pointed out that there's a vast difference between the thousands of years of human sexuality expressed in various forms of media and internet porn as a digital product. You can't correlate these two things without damning all expressions of human sexuality, which again, oppresses all and liberates none. You do believe in the liberation of women, correct?
On another note, seeing miners pretend that they don't look at or consume sexual media is hilarious. Who are you trying to impress? You're on an anonymous imageboard, no one cares that anyone else does or doesn't look at sexually-stimulating things.
>>37174>Child porn doesn't exist outside the dark web
Anon, I agree with your sentiment (I'm >>37173
) but I can confirm that this is unfortunately not true. That being said, the amount of suspected "child porn" or media falsely accused of being such on commercial porn websites is heavily exaggerated by moralistic anti-sex types, and websites usually immediately remove anything that could be considered such as no company wants a lawsuit on their hands. A majority of the people who make these claims are the same people who claim that being attracted to women or media depicting women with traits like short stature, small breasts, a shaved pubic region, etc. is "pedophilic" despite those traits appearing often in adult women, which the actresses making commercial pornography would be (along with how those people never express the same thoughts about the male actors, unsurprisingly.) What's more "radical feminist" than infantilizing women by perpetuating the myth that they are always the small, helpless, child-like victim of the naturally evil, predatory men, and that female predators and abusers don't exist, right? Ironically, it's an extremely primitive and reactionary interpretation of gender and sex, not radical whatsoever.
>How can you be a feminist and kinkshame? You're denying women the ability to express their own sexuality and do the things they want to their own body. I feel like you're against porn for personal, rather than moral, reasons
Quite a few anons in this thread have suggested the same thing. Typically those who label themselves "radfems" claim to want to liberate us from the oppression we face under patriarchy and provide us with accurate knowledge of our bodies, yet are simultaneously extremely anti-sex for unjustified "moral" reasons, with their views on human sexuality and women's rights determined by inaccurate and outdated, borderline Chauvinist, ideas of what "man" and "woman" or the "male sex" and "female sex" mean. I feel genuinely sorry for radfems who are actually radical, feminist, pro-woman, and anti-sexism. (t. actual gender abolitionist and anti-sexist.)
In an ideal world, people (including women) could film themselves and each other giving and receiving sexual pleasure and that would be fine. We don't live in that world. We are obviously talking about modern day porn as it exists because that is what affects us. There is no reason to play around in hypotheticals about what timelines exist where porn isn't harmful and dangerous to women because we live here, where it is. You are the only one conflating porn and human sexuality, by the way. Lots of us enjoy our sex lives without any porn whatsoever. And I'm sure you'll go ahead and say that I'm lying, but I'm not. I don't participate in things that I consider harmful.
If the porn industry wasn't the violent, misogynistic beast that it is, people "learning" from porn wouldn't be as dangerous as it is. Yes, most places need better sex education, that's true, but regardless of how comprehensive a sex education you give people, if the product they're then consuming ignores all of that and teaches them something else, especially when that product is significantly easier to find than it should be for children, it doesn't matter. Young boys can be taught to ask for consent by their teachers all they want, but if they're coming home and spending hours watching aggressive porn where men don't ask women anything, check to see how they are, use protection or lube, and just throw them around and treat them as toys, all of that teaching will be thrown out the window anyway. Not to mention the loads of literal rape that exists on porn sites and the simulated rape that is really common in Japanese porn (along with rape being incredibly frequent in hentai, too).
I'm not overgeneralizing. At no point did I say that revenge porn was the majority. And to say that the women who participate in the porn industry aren't often coerced is almost laughable. Please read things written by former porn industry workers. I'm not talking about the ones that still have good ties to the industry and have made millions through it. I'm talking about the ones who make a few dozen videos and quit because of how horribly they're treated. Read about the on-set rape that happens when these girls try to stop a scene and are shut down, read about how many of them are pressured into consuming alcohol or drugs to be more compliant in a scene, read about how many of them were given diseases because the guy decided to not use a condom even though that isn't what they originally agreed to, etc. Women in the porn industry are treated as consumable.
Again, you saying child porn doesn't exist outside of the dark web would be laughable if it wasn't so naïve and sad. Video sites aren't strict about it at all. I know a handful of women personally whose underage videos have spent years up on certain sites and even after proving they were the ones in the videos and that they were underage at the time, the sites wouldn't take them down until lawyers got involved (I talked about this recently on here even).
Most porn is abusive. Most porn consists of an aggressive man doing whatever he wants to a woman without her input at all, as I already described. You don't need to label most porn as abuse because that's pretty much the baseline of it. Women being slapped around, called names, choked, and used just for a man's pleasure are the literal norm in porn, so you find those in every category.
How can't you "kinkshame" as a feminist? The point of being a feminist is to critique our whole world and figure out the inequalities that exist towards women and do what we can to fix those. Sex isn't outside of that, and anyone who acts like sex is in some bubble that isn't affected by outside forces is ignorant at best. Sex and porn should and will be critiqued.
>>37183>In an ideal world, people (including women) could film themselves and each other giving and receiving sexual pleasure and that would be fine. We don't live in that world
What makes you think that we don't? You've said you're referring specifically to modern pornography, nothing else. Are you suggesting that prior to modern forms of pornography, which arrived barely within the last 25 years, we lived in that world? If the issues with the porn industry can be fixed, would we suddenly revert to this world? The answer to these questions boils down to whether you believe that certain practices in the porn industry are bad must be fixed (which I do, and stated twice in the post you replied to) or that all sexual media is inherently wrong solely because it's pornographic, in which case you'll be upset for quite a while as human sexuality and the visual expressions thereof have always been integral to our species and will never disappear.
>Lots of us enjoy our sex lives without any porn whatsoever. And I'm sure you'll go ahead and say that I'm lying, but I'm not.
I don't believe you're lying, but given that it's been repeatedly statistically proven that the majority of the planet consumes some form of pornography, I'd have no basis on which to be surprised if you were. The reality is that people who don't consume any form of sexual media are largely outnumbered by people (of all sexes, races, orientations, nationalities, and ages) who do. I wouldn't judge you if you did, nor would most people.
>I don't participate in things that I consider harmful.
It's odd of you to imply that anyone can ethically consume a product under capitalism. You're likely currently wearing clothing made in a sweatshop, using a computer or phone created in a factory by low-paid, exploited workers who have no other source of income, much like I am. Everyone in this thread has probably interacted with ten products just in this day that were produced using means which were unethical or harmed another human being, or have had a meal created by a food industry that causes harm to animals or the environment in creating their product. According to your logic, shouldn't I be arguing that you support sweatshops, the exploitation of people for labor, and the abuse of animals because you own clothing, use electronics, and eat food?>inb4 but you don't need porn to live
While clothing and electronics also aren't needed to live, we're sexual organisms with hormones that dictate our physical needs, hence why we masturbate (our bodies are "programmed" to routinely masturbate, and orgasms, as well as the release of sperm for men, help maintain health.) Consuming sexual media for the purpose of stimulation in order to aid masturbation, even though you can masturbate without sexual media, is similar to eating a hot dog and some soda because it tastes good even though a salad and water would've met your nutritional needs. Frankly, I don't shame people for what they eat, because I don't care about what others do to their bodies and don't believe I'm morally superior to others because of what products I consume. Of course, doing what you can to eradicate the issues with the porn industry (or any industry with harmful practices) is good, but gives you no right to judge those in a position of less privilege who are unable to do so, or pretend you're superior on a moral level because of it.
>Young boys can be taught to ask for consent by their teachers all they want, but if they're coming home and spending hours watching aggressive porn where men don't ask women anything, check to see how they are, use protection or lube, and just throw them around and treat them as toys, all of that teaching will be thrown out the window>Read about the on-set rape that happens when these girls try to stop a scene and are shut down, read about how many of them are pressured into consuming alcohol or drugs to be more compliant in a scene, read about how many of them were given diseases because the guy decided to not use a condom even though that isn't what they originally agreed to, etc. Women in the porn industry are treated as consumable
All of what you've described - disregard for women's emotions and needs, lack of effort made to establish consent, objectification, abuse and rape because women are "property", clouding women's own judgement - are the natural consequences of a sexist system and the inaccurate ideas of sex and gender roles that it perpetuates. All of these have been done to women centuries before modern pornography came into existence. Our society's sexist notions used to justify the oppression and subjugation of women, the "lesser" sex, existed long before modern forms of pornography existed and long before any form of artistic or written pornography was easily accessible to the average person. There are people who consume porn who are sexist and people who don't consume porn at all who are sexist (the consumption of sexual media isn't a "men" issue, "people" refers to everyone.) Certain sexual media and pornographic products integrating these sexist ideas doesn't mean that sexual media or pornography (modern or otherwise) invented the issue. In a sexist system, all
women are viewed as consumable due to social, political, and economic sex-based division, and to combat this we must abolish the notion of "gender" and eradicate all forms of sex-based division. If you believe the issue is simply pornography alone, you're cutting a leaf off of a plant and pretending you've uprooted it.
>Child porn doesn't exist outside the dark web
Almost stopped reading here. You're so ignorant it hurts.
>And also another widely spread myth is the popularity of rape or abusive videos. A simple pornhub trends search will show you the most popular categories are things like Japanese, lesbian, big ass.
Incest and teen categories were previously topping the charts. They have lied and adjusted results because it made them look bad. As for rape/abuse videos, I mean hell there are entire (popular) websites dedicated to that kind of content. Motherless, Heavy-r, 4chans /b/ is full of it, Facial Abuse- the list goes on. There are entire websites but most men won't need to visit them because abuse porn can be easily found on most standard porn sites.
>BDSM ranks somewhere in the lower end of the more popular categories, but BDSM is a kink, not rape. It is a consenting sexual act between two parties. Is it physically abusive? Yes, to a safe degree. But it is not in itself psychologically or emotionally abusive.
"BdSm Is A kInK" BITCH, PLEASE. BDSM is just sugar-coated abuse so men can get their rocks off to degrading and abusing women without feeling bad about it. And so that self-hating women can go somewhere to be hurt. Because most of them have already been abused and that's what abuse victims often do- they seek to relive their trauma. It's extremely misguided and only serves to further hurt them. And it also only turns on men all the more, as can be seen in porn interviews when they ask the woman about her past history of abuse/relationship with her father etc. and you can audibly hear them licking their crusty shriveled lips. "Not psychologically or emotionally abusive" my fucking ass.
Also just as a cherry on top about 10% of porn-site visitors are 10 or under.
>>37191>BDSM is just sugar-coated abuse so men can get their rocks off to degrading and abusing women without feeling bad about it. And so that self-hating women can go somewhere to be hurt. Because most of them have already been abused and that's what abuse victims often do- they seek to relive their trauma. It's extremely misguided and only serves to further hurt them. And it also only turns on men all the more, as can be seen in porn interviews when they ask the woman about her past history of abuse/relationship with her father etc. and you can audibly hear them licking their crusty shriveled lips.
Anon… there are lesbian women into BDSM. There are women and lesbian women in the world who are attracted to practically any act, fetish, or kink one can think of. This thread's conversation will never go anywhere if posters keep correlating sexual acts and sexual media to strictly men, as if women aren't or shouldn't be sexual beings.
Lesbians can be abuse victims and abusers, too. No one said otherwise. The industry isn't dominated or run by lesbians though.
>I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel. You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn. Anyone else feel this way?
You can't get a bf because your narcissistic personality can't find a way to lie to itself around the fact that there may be sexually more desireable women on this planet than you.*
So you also don't want a bf as in "significant other" you want a retard without own will that worships you like a deity and is just a reflection of yourself.
Just like the incel wanting a "pure" gf because if she had any sexual contact or ever went out in her life she will know better than him. So better not risk anything.
I'm always astonished how female imageboard dwellers have the same things bothering them and the same retarded schizo problems.
*Which btw isn't the function of porn anyway. Your inferiority complex just tells you that.
The thing is that half of us here wants a partner who are equally monogamous as us.
Being in a relationship with someone who's not equally mono/poly is not a good idea.
Most porn is basically cuckoldry, I guess some people are unknowingly into that kinda thing or maybe they condition themselves to be into it or to be accepting of it, it's just self abusive overall
If I only find my partner attractive (even when there are other people in the world who are hotter by conventional standards), it's not narcissistic to simply want my partner to have the same type of attraction, i.e. only finding me attractive.
To me, there are no sexually more desireable men out there than my partner, because that's how my sexual desire works. I don't find other men attractive in the slightest even when I recognize they would be considered model tier by others. It's better and healthier for me to have a partner who matches me in this respect, there are fewer problems and misunderstandings when things feel even and safe, and we fully understand each other.
I'll never understand why people have such a problem with this concept, or why so many women get so offended by people like me.
Exactly this. This is how I feel as well. No one is more attractive than my partner to me and it makes it difficult to talk about attraction with other people. I sincerely wish I could find a partner who is like this as well. My partner claims he is similar to me in this, but he still watches porn, so I don't quite believe his claim.
The point isn't I need to be the only attractive woman on earth to him. The point is that I want our relationship to be equal and reciprocal.
Input may be moot since I'm a febfem save for a miracle but here we go
It's not even the competition aspect, or else I'd be as uptight about a female partner finding other women attractive. The difference is the Coolidge effect.
As a woman, I know I can find others attractive while finding my partner the most attractive because I love them. Meanwhile, most men will steadily find their partners less appealing. There are definitely outliers on both sides (even some women on here say they get sick of their bfs), but it's more prevalent in men and regular porn watching would be indicative of a man with these biological tendencies.
Men also fall victim more often to supernormal stimulus and fetish escalation to exclusivity. Their porn consumption may lead to more extreme things and ONLY those extreme things, which seems to happen less with women.
Honestly the women who get aggressive when arguing against people like OP (or write paragraph after paragraph on how they have no problem with porn, it means nothing when men use porn, many women also use porn, something something sex negative compulsory monogamy culture etc.) come across as way more insecure than women who dare to have boundaries and expectations that work for them, like wanting a mutually porn-free relationship.
I don't know where else the hostility could spring from. To me, it just sounds like "I'm super okay with porn, men love me more than you because of this, really they do", while trying to put down the women who don't like porn to raise their own status. And often also trying to convince others (and sometimes themselves) of the ideological assertion that looking at porn doesn't mean their boyfriends are less attracted to them - even when studies say otherwise. It doesn't sound like something that a person who is happy and confident about their relationship prospects would do, and once you identify the insecurity behind them, these hostile posts make more sense.
From OP's post,>I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel. You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn. Anyone else feel this way?
There's nothing wrong with someone wanting a monogamous, mutually porn-free relationship. The words and sentences OP used ("us", "you’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn", "anyone else?") imply that this is something that all women can or should relate to, or should desire to relate to, which isn't true. Everyone has a right to engage in a monogamous and/or porn-free relationship just as much as everyone has the right to engage in a polygamous and/or porn-consumptive relationship. Her saying "you’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn" even though beauty is entirely subjective is sort of openly expressing that her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend's porn consumption was an issue for her because it made her feel insecure.
"Anyone else?" is literally a question anon, about whether other women feel like she does, because she wants to talk to other women who feel like she does.
"Us" doesn't indicate anything about you or all women feeling like that, just that there are women who feel that way. She didn't say "how shitty it makes women feel". Even if she did, according to studies, the majority of women do feel bad about it, whether you personally are fine with it or not - so it's reasonable to ask if men understand how shitty it makes many women, statistically, feel, even though you also exist and don't feel bad about it at all. The need to interpret all this as something that relates to you personally is exactly what makes it seem like insecure attention grabbing.
People going "Hey, not all women feel that way, I don't feel that way, why are you saying I do, I just love porn and would never look down on men who use it, I am a woman and fine with porn", when someone asks for support for a very common feeling, sounds like you want to knock these other women down a peg while tooting your own horn about how okay you are with porn, and yes, it comes across as way more insecure than someone recognizing that they want a fully monogamous relationship. Again according to research, men are less attracted to their partners because of the infinite variety and hyperstimulating properties of the women in porn, so OP's sentiment is not unfounded insecurity, it's a well-founded desire to make choices for the health of one's relationship.
The insecurity is doubly apparent when you actually insult people like OP and go to absurd lengths in order to label a valid preference as crazy or controlling or whatever, but maybe you weren't among the people who made those comments.
"I'm super okay with porn, men love me more than you because of this, really they do", while trying to put down the women who don't like porn to raise their own status.
It's nothing new that men support each other while women put each other down when it comes to opinions and preference especially on the internet, which sucks alot.
The absolute majority of men use porn as a utility and nothing more. Of course there are coomers out there with crippling addiction but like every other addiction they are a tiny minority. Sperm just needs to go out frequently and porn makes it that much easier. It's like flavor on food, you don't need it to survive it just makes eating more enjoyable.
Well said. ( >>37185
)>we're sexual organisms with hormones that dictate our physical needs, hence why we masturbate (our bodies are "programmed" to routinely masturbate, and orgasms, as well as the release of sperm for men, help maintain health.) Consuming sexual media for the purpose of stimulation in order to aid masturbation, even though you can masturbate without sexual media, is similar to eating a hot dog and some soda because it tastes good even though a salad and water would've met your nutritional needs.
Even the cool girl champions in this thread casually admit almost a fifth of men use porn compulsively… not exactly a tiny minority. Probably tons in addition to this still give themselves major problems, just without outright admitting it is compulsive, or they only nearly meet the criteria. Do you seriously not see anything wrong with this?>>37235
Do you also think it's unreasonable to want a guy who eats healthily instead of one who is used to hot dogs and soda? The bar is so low for men. And pickmes try their best to make it worse by complaining endlessly when other women have standards.
Yeah, it sucks so much, and no one really benefits from this behavior except men.
I always wonder whether these women would also so disdainfully tell their daughter or little sister (or anyone whose wellbeing they cared about enough to think about the actual facts) that men are always entitled to porn, and she is narcissistic and controlling if she expresses any discomfort with the prevalence of pornsick men in the dating landscape.
>>37237>Do you also think it's unreasonable to want a guy who eats healthily instead of one who is used to hot dogs and soda?
Not at all if there is clear communication and expression from both participants, before the relationship begins, that they wish to keep the relationship monogamous and limit their consumption of sexual media and/or limit acting on their sexuality except with one another. The unfortunate reality is that relationships between one person who desires a monogamous relationship and one person who doesn't (or falsely claims that they do, fearing the consequences of being open about their opposing preference) are formed all of the time due to the stigma around non-monogamous relationships and interactions, which only ends in hurting both participants.
This may not apply specifically to OP's case, she may or may not have made those agreements with her boyfriend, it simply illustrates the harm that can be caused in situations when people assume that monogamy is the "normal" preference, therefore feeling no need to clarify to their partner that what they want is a strictly monogamous relationship. The idea of monogamy being "the norm" and the subsequent lack of openness or honesty between partners who believe such is not the fault of any of the partners, neither the monogamous/porn-free one or the polygamous/porn-consuming one, but is a societal-level issue. My post(s) refer not only to OP's post but to the discussion throughout this thread.
>The bar is so low for men. And pickmes try their best to make it worse by complaining endlessly when other women have standards.
I understand you may be referring in general to the thread or to many posts in this thread, rather than specifically me or my post (or if you are specifically referring to me, my statement still stands), but I'm bisexual and have had relationships both with men and women. My romantic and sexual expectations for the sexes differ in no way. I've made other posts in this thread that explain why my stance (which still stands as acknowledgement of the fact that the porn industry has problems which need to be fixed if they can be, like many industries do, but not that the existence of pornography itself is an issue) is about defending human sexuality and the rights to produce sexual art, literature, and various media, and to consume it - particularly in defense of women's right to do so, because our sex as a whole and our identities have been repressed and desexualized for centuries as part of a sexist system and state which wishes to deprive women of the same human rights that men are allowed to exert and express. My beliefs have nothing to do with wishing to garner attention from men or from anyone and I'm sorry that you interpret my defense of sexual media (which can overlap with pornography, but can also stand alone) as me being a "pickme", as if there are no men who don't support pornography and no women who do support pornography.
I mean, sure, the analogy is different because I'm also turned off by my partner watching other people have sex lol. I just don't know what to tell you anon, I don't know why you're so bothered when other people have this boundary, it seems like this somehow offends you and creates a really aggressive need to defend your lower standards and it's so prevalent in every thread on this topic.
So porn is basically mukbang? People crave it but they can't have it and instead comply on ramen noodles.
OP is a ramen confirmed!
>asking for a partner who doesn't watch porn would eliminate 90% of the dating pool both men and women
>And just going statistically, women have a higher bar than men
tfw you realize the reason why men seem to have "lower" standards and an easier time finding women as both temporary partners and long-term partners is because… men don't call others horrible disgusting people for watching porn, lol
I'm not sure anyone cares about your personal life as a bi woman, or this convoluted cultural history / human rights crusade for coomers you have taken up as a weird rationalization for your attachment to porn. We mostly just want devoted monogamous boyfriends whose dicks will reliably work after 30.
This is an interesting point to bring up in this context, since studies seem to show porn causes sexual dysfunction in men, but not in women. So the response would be appropriate when choosing a partner. This might also be also one reason why so many women believe men when they say porn doesn't mean anything and doesn't cause any harm.
On the other hand, if women used porn as much as men did, with similar consequences, and the men in porn were similarly optimized to be hot and irresistible to the female gaze, you bet more men would also be way more uncomfortable with it.
If you don't have an argument other than (insert hypothetical level of penis functionality of non-existent potential male partner), that's perfectly alright. You are allowed to disagree and no one is forcing you to reply to my posts. The same can be said of me, I just wanted to explain my position in the possibility that you could understand the basis of another woman's beliefs and ideas.
Yeah, and this discussion would even probably be interesting in a different context. It's just that understanding works better when extended to people who demonstrate it first, instead of people arguing against OP with long-winded and mostly unrelated pro-porn arguments, in a perfectly reasonable thread asking for support for perfectly reasonable preferences. In this thread it all comes across as a defensive need to come up with anything to defend porn, which is what I'm curious about, and makes harder to believe your points about culture and human rights are halfway sincere.
And like people told you upthread (assuming you're the anon who wrote all the earlier longer comments on related questions), you don't seem to be replying to anyone's arguments yourself and instead just bring up more and more unrelated stuff, so of course you can't really demand others to respond to you more thoughtfully than you do to them.
>>37249>you don't seem to be replying to anyone's arguments yourself and instead just bring up more and more unrelated stuff, so of course you can't really demand others to respond to you more thoughtfully than you do to them
Here are the posts of mine where I responded to arguments and claims made by other posters (using greentext) in order to explain my position (it's important to clarify which posts are actually mine versus which posts might've been mistaken as mine):>>37173>>37175
(a response to that specific anon, not to OP)>>37185>>37185>>37193>>37241
Again, no one is obliged to read or respond to them, but it may give you an idea of what my points are and why.
How do you read that and conclude it's "largely a myth"?
>Experts do say, however, that watching pornography can influence a man’s sexual appetite. This may make it difficult for them to achieve an erection and have an orgasm with a sexual partner.
>Nikki Martinez, PsyD, LCPC, says modern access to a wide array of adult material can make it difficult for a man to become aroused with their partner or to participate in sexual activities as they always have.
Also pic related and there's plenty more, there's really very little point in denying this. Of course it's up to women if they want to take their chances, it's not like it breaks every dick ever at least among young men, but I'd really rather not increase the risk when choosing a life partner.
Did you mean to reply to >>37252
It's a review of multiple studies, some of which are also longitudinal and therefore better at establishing causation. Even when causation is not established, correlations are also information you should use when selecting a partner: if men who consume porn are more likely to have problems than those who do not, you're still better off picking a partner who doesn't use porn, regardless of what the actual cause is. Many of the studies have control groups (for using or not using porn, having or not having ED, etc.) so statistics about population base rates offer no additional information and are not needed for finding true associations.
If you haven't read a sentence of 11 words before, what I said in response to the link you provided means that you can't use it to conclude that PIED largely a myth. The image was there to provide more positive evidence for PIED.
Don't worry, all of your posts are incredibly obvious that it's you because you keep making dumb false analogies over and over.
I can't believe some of the posts in this thread end up devolving to, "well you have to be okay with porn or you won't get a boyfriend!" as if I'd compromise my morals just to date someone. My life isn't dictated by having a boyfriend, and I'd be more content being single than I ever would dating a guy who watches porn.
>>37152>>37152>>37152>therapist, his maid, his mom, and his whore.
So what do you want to be for him, exactly? Useless. Freud wasn't completely wrong about human psychology. You need to be at least one of those four to be relevant to a person on a psychosexual level beyond passing acquaintance or attractive stranger at the mall.
Uh, no. I want to be an equal partner. We work together fairly to help each other achieve goals in life. That isn't unrealistic. Thinking you have to bend over backwards to cater to the men you're dating is ridiculous. Women don't exist to cater to men's lives.
I didn't say I'd do nothing. I was originally saying that men often expect the women in their lives to do all of the emotional labour along with things like housework and cooking, and then also expect women they date with to act like pornstars in the bedroom. AKA they treat their partner like their therapist, their mother, their maid, and their whore. These are not positions of equality. These are positions of imbalance. I don't want that. I'm not sure how you don't understand that.
I don't say "maths." I'm Canadian. Not really sure why that's relevant, but okay, America. Keep showing why everyone thinks your country has one brain cell if you aren't capable of understanding what I'm saying.
Please read my post. I'm begging you. It literally tells you my position right in it.
I did not say that people shouldn't comfort or have sex with each other. How did you manage to get that from my post? Are you really so dumb that you think "treat someone like a therapist" means "you both give each other advice" or is there something else you aren't understanding?
I literally clarified all of my descriptions here >>37279
, and you've even responded to that post already. Not gonna engage with you anymore.
Out of curiosity; OP, have you actually made posts in this thread? Can you identify yourself and your posts if so? When this thread was first made I reported it as a "bait/troll thread" because it seemed like a man attempting to disguise himself as a woman with "relatable woman problems", hence the odd immediate assumption that all women dislike or don't interact with porn. After the thread was never removed and the discussion pursued, I assumed the Admin was able to find a convincing post history supporting that OP was a regular crystal.cafe poster, and I entered the thread and shared my viewpoints.
It's odd how after 144 posts (now 145) of heated discussion expressing both agreement and disagreement with her position, prompted by her asking "Anyone else feel this way?", she hasn't identified herself in any posts, seemingly making this thread with the intent to disappear afterwards. That's the run-of-the-mill approach to executing bait posts, if it means anything. It's interesting to consider the implications of certain anons praising OP's "anti-porn", "monogamous", and "moral" approach to relationships when this entire time they could've been defending an anime-avatar male troll who probably watches porn on a regular basis.
OP, if your post was of a genuine nature (and you're still here), it'd do no harm to clarify that or to respond to arguments for and against your ideas.
I'm one of the anti-porn anons in this thread. I also wondered why OP didn't take part in the debate at all, but I don't really care if she specifically is who she claims to be or not. While OP expressed things in a hyperbolic way with wanting to die and such, the underlying sentiment is real and common enough. People on an anonymous board are defending a position which resembles something OP described, and which they identify with themselves. Whether or not OP is actually one of the people who feel like this, or just a larping moid who watches porn himself, has no bearing on the positions and relationship approaches discussed.
I'm glad other women ITT are open about their dislike of pornography and don't cave into the cries of men, I felt so alone and like I was going crazy for a while, because many of my gal friends would say things like "yeah I don't really like when my boyfriend watches porn but I just deal with it because all guys do it" and It just never sat right with me.
Fucking seriously? Explain to me how you got "the immediate assumption that all women dislike or don't interact with porn" from OP's post. It seems like she's talking about her own feelings. I'm not even fully anti porn but I can relate to everything OP said. I have absolutely felt that strongly about it at times. And yeah it's a bit hyperbolic but this is /feels/? A board for venting? Sometimes people exaggerate when expressing emotions or trying to get a point across? And I've seen women express this sentiment in various places for years.
>It's interesting to consider the implications of certain anons praising OP's "anti-porn", "monogamous", and "moral" approach to relationships when this entire time they could've been defending an anime-avatar male troll who probably watches porn on a regular basis.
Ok… so? Like >>37330
said, even if it is a bait post, clearly many women here agree or relate to it to some degree. You're really trying to denigrate the opinions of the anons who agreed with OP by suggesting they were bamboozled by a man?
How many times do we need to talk about the fact that just because someone on here disagrees with your viewpoint it doesn't make them a maleposter lmfao.
I really don't understand why people can't tolerate dissenting views on porn. I think porn is probably ultimately harmful, and I've made posts in this thread to that end, but I do consume it sometimes. Like other drugs I consume I know it has an effect on my brain but it's enjoyable and I'm weak. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite. You don't need to be perfectly on one side or the other to acknowledge the reality of issues and the pros/cons that literally everything has.
It does make you a hypocrite, but lots of people are hypocritical about a lot of things.
i look at plenty of hentai drawings. as long as a guy isn't buying used bathwater i think it's fine. porn is like any other substance, it can be used responsibly or it can be abused.
i look at a lot of SM and heavier stuff and have masochistic tendencies. masturbating to a fantasy prevents me from sticking a needle through my nipples, so i think the porn is a better choice. it isn't always bad or always good. >>36666>added a bunch of girls on snapchat.
that's electronic cheating, not porn. there's a line there. >>36839
the ero-doujin market supports starving hikkineet fujo and yumejo, though. my japanese sisters. >>36868
it ceases to be harmless fun when it results in real world disorders. that's an addiction at that point.
It ceases to be harmless fun when it results in the abuse, rape, and trafficking of women, which porn does as a whole.
>>37620>>37620>That's electronic cheating, not porn. there's a line there.
It's both. The girls were porn stars / camgirls. He knew the names of many female porn stars by heart which I always thought was weird too.
>>37631>>37667>abuse, rape, and trafficking of women
Literally all of these vastly predate pornography.
I didn't say porn was the cause of them. I said the porn industry results in those - because that's what it's built on. Learn to read.
>>37692>I didn't say porn was the cause of them. I said the porn industry results in those
That's essentially the exact same thing.
>Learn to read.
It isn't at all. It's saying that the porn industry leads to the abuse, rape, and trafficking of women, not that the porn industry created those problems in the first place and is the sole cause of them. It contributes to a problem that already exists.
Just because you can't understand what I'm saying doesn't mean it's wrong. Turn off the porn for a minute and maybe your brain will clear enough to be able to digest a sentence.
Gold star lesbians? On my cc?
Porn has never proven to be harmful but w/e
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence
OP Here>>37202>You can't get a bf because your narcissistic personality can't find a way to lie to itself around the fact that there may be sexually more desireable women on this planet than you.*
So you also don't want a bf as in "significant other" you want a retard without own will that worships you like a deity and is just a reflection of yourself.
I do not appreciate you assuming negative things about me simply because I want a monogamous, porn free relationship. There’s a reason 50% of divorce cases involve ones use of porn. It’s literally programmed into women’s brain and do not possess the capacity to get over our partner watching porn it’s wired into our brain through millions of years of cognitive evolution being genetically predisposed jealousy and insecurity because men can’t stop themselves from jacking off to a screen. If you don’t care about your SO watching porn, cool. But for many many women, it hurts our heart you wouldn’t understand how it feels to have the man you love most get off to random whores online. Porn is evil and makes sex meaningless. I don’t care if you shame me for being “prude” Sexual immorality is a huge problem in modern society
>Just like the incel wanting a "pure" gf because if she had any sexual contact or ever went out in her life she will know better than him. So better not risk anything.
Your right, there’s nothing wrong with men not wanting their girlfriend to ride the cock carousel before them, plus theirs many advantages to saving yourself until marriage. It’s not an “incel” thing, it’s just that men these days have become total simps and women expect them not to care that they been a slut before they dated them. >>37326
No I have not, I just made this thread for venting, this is my first post in crystal cafe, because I mainly browse 4chan and occasianly crystal cafe but I didn’t think it would be a good idea making this post there because of the misogyny, I thought there would be more girls agreeing with me here and have the same feelings as I do. But people just started debating instead. So I didn’t really bother replying to people. And I never really talked about this to anyone cause I’m to embarrassed too. I did not expect to get this many replies either.
I completely disagree with this, even not including porn. Lots of people are miserable in their relationships and hold resentments for things they've compromised on. Most people would rather be in a mediocre relationship than alone, and that makes me very sad. People, especially women, often compromise or bend their values or expectations to not be single. Most people settle for a 7/10 match, but that 3/10 is always on their minds in some way or another. I don't think that's healthy, and I don't think it's something we should advise people.
When the woman who has had 7/10 relationship then gotten out and been miserable then lowers her standards even further to 6/10 and then 5/10, etc, what happens? She becomes more and more miserable.
Let's say she manages to have multiple 7/10 relationships even. She carries burdens from each previous relationship. She imagines flaws from her previous partners in her new one. She finds different parts of her to silence, to compromise, to shape to be lovable. She has never had a truly satisfying relationship. She's always had to hope that maybe "some day" he will change. And then some day becomes never.
50% of marriages end in divorce. Lots of people become single in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. It isn't over for them. They have family and friends. It's also been shown that women actually live longer when they aren't married because of how much we constantly put into relationships that don't give back to us in the same way.
Women would find relationships they are much happier in if they were honest with themselves and were willing to say "no" more often.
I didn't say every woman lowers their standards. I literally gave a different example right after that. I also don't think people raise their standards after a "failed" relationship because I don't think most people consider their relationships ending to be failures due to their compromising with their partner.
I actually don't have to accept flaws in a partner! I have morals that are incredibly important to me, and I don't bend those just for some dick. If I find something out about my partner that is a dealbreaker, I end things. It's that simple. I also disagree that arguing and fighting are part of every relationship. My last relationship was 6+ years long, and we didn't fight once.
That's honestly sometimes the case among adults kek, I also had long relationships like this. "Never arguing is so unhealthy because you're just bottling your feelings" (or whatever other secret magic reasons there are) is the biggest cope for people in struggling or stressful relationships.
Sure, some people have unhealthy reasons for why they never fight, but others are just able to handle things in a calm way. You can disagree about things and talk it out without getting all riled up, and you can handle your emotions without taking them out on your partner or raising your voice or being snappy. That's the whole point of finding someone compatible, and I fully agree with >>37717
that searching for a very peaceful relationship is worth it, compared to what some people do. On the other hand, some people don't mind the occasional conflict and are more effective or comfortable resolving things that way. I get that it can be the healthiest option for them, even if it isn't my thing. I'm just so puzzled at how fights are glorified as the only healthy option.
Oh, I consider the term "fights" to often mean disagreements, as people tend to talk about them that way even if no loud voices, insults, etcetera were utilized in said disagreement. You only reserve that term for loud, negative fighting.
If your friend says she and her bf were fighting yesterday, do you really think she probably means they had a totally chill, considerate, and positively toned small difference of opinion which the talked about? A fight doesn't have to be loud, but I don't think anyone uses the word unless the situation was negatively emotional in an adversarial way.
I doubt most men (aside from literal cucks) would be happy with their gfs watching BBC porn, or massive cock porn, or porn involving tons of Chads gangbanging a girl, or FTM tranny porn, or anything else that emasculates them.
So why the fuck do they expect their gfs to be okay with them watching racial fetish porn, or tranny porn? Would they be comfortable to us openly whacking off to handsome male models and requesting they watch shirtless Sean O Pry videos with us? No. So why do they want us to watch Stacy porn with them for foreplay or god forbid, DURING, sex (can’t believe some women actually tolerate this).
Their hypocrisy is unreal. I saw one guy talking about how he was watching porn on his laptop in bed while his gf was beside him sleeping, and she woke up and saw he was watching it and got angry. And all the people were saying she was a controlling shrew harpie etc. Would he be happy if he woke up and saw his white gf watching blacked porn (only using this as an example since white guys get ULTRA triggered by black dicks) or some other huge dick Chad porn? Do men actually expect us to be okay with them getting off to the idea of fucking other women and cucking us with porn? If he wants to do that in private then fine I can’t stop you, but don’t talk about it openly and expect us to tolerate or even enjoy it.
It just amazes me how much women put up with and ignore in a relationship, or talk themselves into enjoying. My take is if a man wouldnt tolerate something in a relationship, he shouldnt expect a woman to either. Find me one straight, non-cuck guy who would be happy to eat his gf out while she watches a compilation of Henry Cavill sex scenes. It just wouldnt happen, and any guy who would is an automatic cuck.
I assumed men who watched porn were okay with their gfs watching it too. Is this really not the case? Sounds like a teenage couple problem, I never considered that adults could act like that.
I found out my bf jerks off to subreddits full of literal 10/10 women with 10/10 bodies. It makes me feel like utter shit. I know it is deluded to think that your partner will only find you attractive (actually in my case, I am extremely monogamous and my bf is the only guy I ever think about, but I realize men aren’t hardwired that way) but it still hurts. I will never be able to compete. I have a 4/10 face and average body. I was scrolling through all these pictures of hot girls and honestly felt like crying because I will never be even half as hot as they are, no matter how much effort I make.
On one hand I dont want porn and a bunch of Stacy sluts nudes to ruin my relationship, but on the other hand I feel like they already have, I feel so inferior and inadequate and defeated, knowing that no matter who I date, they will always be fantasizing about someone hotter. I realized the other day I am insecure to an unfixable degree. I think I should just give up on dating entirely.
Are you kidding? Men are egotistical hypocrites, most would definitely not be okay with their gf watching porn with hotter guys. Its always one rule for me, another for thee with them.
A lot of men don't even realize it'd make them feel bad because of how much less common it is for women to openly do the same thing on a daily basis, they don't feel the need to consider it.
Blogpost incoming but my boyfriend and I live separately and somewhat long distance, we watch porn separately in our free time (once a week usually for us both) and are both comfortable with this. We're both into vanilla porn involving people who look like one another, it's never impacted our sex lives either, he utterly worships my body and even cums prematurely during foreplay sometimes still.
Even when he watches a porn clip, he always finishes looking at a nude I've sent him.
You're correct, men know that porn use is far less prevalent (i.e. not near-universal like it is for men) among women and moreover, I'd guess there's more men who underestimate how many women use porn than overestimate it. Both because of the stereotype that women don't masturbate/are less interested in sex and because I imagine there's a share of women who use porn but don't tell their partners.
I don't necessarily agree with the assertion that most
men would be jealous or upset about their partner watching the porn genres >>38073
describes, at least not most younger men. But I definitely agree that most haven't even considered how they would feel in that situation because they don't think about women as using porn like they do.
More importantly I don't think most men have ever considered about how they
would feel if their partner's porn use affected their relationship and/or their self esteem. If they were turned down for sex because she already got her fix from jerking off to porn earlier in the day. If their gf experienced sexual dysfunction from porn overuse that affected their sex life, but cared more about continuing to watch porn than to try and improve it. If they were pressured into copying porn acts they weren't okay with or just didn't enjoy to please their pornsick gf (not saying this doesn't happen to men but let's be real it happens more often to women).
>>36663> I wish guys understood how shitty it makes us feel. You’ll never look as good as the girls he sees on porn. Anyone else feel this way?
>How the fuck am I supposed to find a bf when 99% of men are coomers because they cant stop themselves to save their life from jacking off to a screen.
the lack of self conscience
Don't fret dearie, I assure you that there are still traditionalist men out there that oppose pornography, especially in Christian communities - particularly orthodox/catholic
Pretty much. The only guys I have met who say they don’t watch porn are either
>chads who get sex so often they don’t need porn (no point getting with one of these guys, they won’t settle down until they are 60)
>ultra judgmental religious guys (often these guys lie about it too or have some weird sexual hangup like they are closeted or find traps hot and are trying to rid themselves of these homosexual feelings or weird fetishes)
>former porn addicts who are on the verge of relapse at any given moment
None of these sound particularly appealing to date.
Men love porn until women start having more autonomy and say in it, or start making a good profit from it. Apparently men think they are entitled to women’s tits and ass for free. God forbid they actually charge for their service.
Look at all the cope and seethe.https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/247253159/
No you guys are forgetting the guy that was brought up in an ultra religious household and made to feel extreme guilt over expressing any sexual desires so now has anxiety over watching porn but also probably has some fucked up weird taboo fetish to make up for it
Those were literally the second group of guys I mentioned haha
I feel the same. My boyfriend once tried to comfort me by saying he doesn't see the women as people so it's not like he's fantasizing about them in particular. They're just a collection of hot body parts to him. So much for him saying he supported feminism. Needless to say, I ripped him a new one.
>>38185>They're just a collection of hot body parts to him.
That's the Sexual politics of meat all over again.https://caroljadams.com/the-spom-slide-show
Wow that’s not comforting in the least
What was going through his head honestly….
You sound manipulative as fuck. If you had a sister and a your boyfriend went to talk to her when you did something that bothered him, I think people would be disturbed by your boyfriend's behavior. The same applies here.
I've been "the brother" in your situation except it wasn't that it wasn't over my sister watching porn and even though I act okay with her boyfriend calling me up and talking to me about their relationship problems, I only do so to keep the peace between him and me. Then, I tell my sister about it because I think it's fucked he's doing this shit. He knows it'd get under her skin, he's being manipulative and I'm trying to create distance between us. "Creative flair" my ass, that's manipulation and i think it's pathetic you feel like you have to resort to that with your boyfriend instead of moving on. He is only like this now because of your manipulation.
Yeah, I don't care. It's not like I'm Amish or anything. Why play puritan if you're not getting an immediate arranged marriage.
>Having to lock your phone because otherwise your bf will snoop around
Wow, truly an exemplary relationship.
Your boyfriend sounds pretty desperate and all around a loser.
You pretty much threatened to cheat on him with his brother over him watching porn. He ended up apologizing and gave in while you STILL have a relationship with his bro?
Talk about spineless behaviour. No wonder it was so easy to manipulate him, he has no pride and no possessiveness that any normal man would have.
I’d leave him if I were you, that’s only if you’re looking for a serious relationship. Otherwise keep having fun with him irdc.
I’m just disgusted on how a man could be this wimpy. He must have low T
Ouch. No need to be mean. It was supposed to be a positive post! Kinda taken aback by the responses. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.
AS IF none of you have ever cheated on a partner lol. I can count on two fingers the girls I know who’ve played it traditionally and even they struggled at times and slipped up, but we never count slip ups! We grow from them.
It’s not a big deal. Men only care about the physical aspect of sex anyway, and I ran into the arms of his brother for emotional fulfilment. The physical was just a byproduct of seeking emotional support from a man, not that I was complaining. It was a tough time in my life and I needed all the fulfilment I could get.
I wouldn’t say I was manipulative at all. I basically just helped him get his priorities in order. Sometimes men need a good kick up the backside. It’s a favour if anything, not manipulation.
I was doing this for him. For us. We love each other deeply and I couldn’t bare to see him seeing me slip away. It was hurting him too much. But that’s what got everything back on track.
And now it’s all in the past mostly. I’ll break it off with his brother when the time is right. I am not a bad person despite what you may think I did what needed to be done. And I’m not going to hurt the second man I love too, just to feel like I have all the loose ends tied up.
Um. I mean…he’s really not. He’s a good man. Yes he is agreeable. But he is very loving and competent and he is not a low T pushover like orbiters or something.
He goes to the gym and works out hard, and still manages to work 70 hours a week to pay the bills and put food on our table. No beta male has it in them to work that hard and still take care of their lover’s needs. But he manages it no problem!
We are perfectly happy and I do see a bright future for us or else I wouldn’t have gone through so much effort to help him realise what he was taking for granted.
So no! He’s my MAN and he is a real man. And worst case scenario if he becomes weak or unmotivated, after all I’ve done for him, well it will show me what I’m truly worth and I have his brother as a backup plan. But it won’t come to that anyway because I have FAITH in my man. He loves me too much to let me down again.
Sorry but it’s just the truth/
Oh get off it everyone checks phones lol. I check his all the time. Trust is important and you need to know if you can trust someone.
Lol cheating on your boyfriend in order for him to listen to you is manipulative. Don’t sugarcoat it.
I don’t blame you though. If your boyfriend is willing to apologize and stop doing something harmless just so you won’t cheat on him, he’s pretty weak.
Think about it, If you and your boyfriend didn’t see eye to eye, and then he cheated on you on purpose. Just so you could see his way, would you stick with your dignity and leave him? Or stay with him and listen to whatever he says just so he doesn’t replace you?
If someone cheats on you or threatens to cheat on you. Then they don’t love you, Id cancel the relationship immediately.
>>38209>Sorry but it’s just the truth
Have you tried fucking your boy friend?
Men and women are wired differently. Men are turned on by visual sexual stimuli easier than women and to impregnate every woman they see. It is simpler just to accept this and know that your bf will always look at other women and fantasize about other women - you do not own him and you cannot tell him what he can and cannot watch or think about. But the flip side of that is you are also allowed to flirt and check out and fantasize about other men. In the end, if you try to control your partner or make a big deal over him masturbating for sexual relief (and this is a legit thing, most guys watch porn when they have had a long day or are stressed) the more he will come to resent you for trying to control him. You talk as if you have succeeded in removing the microchip embedded in every males brain, when that is simply impossible. No amount of nofap or shaming or internet locks or pressure from a gf can change what men are programmed to do - which is cum in or at least think of cumming in as many women as possible.
Holy shit, fucking LARPer. No, I have never cheated on a partner and I have told every partner about men who message me. I don't slip up nor do I struggle. Monogamy is natural for me.
Not all men care only about the physical aspect. If that were true, they'd buy fleshlights, watch porn, and be done with it. See the deadbedrooms subreddit to see men who are desperate to have sex with their wives, not because of the physical part, but because they view their wives as their partners. If they were only in it for physical reasons, they'd all cheat, not try to fix their marriages.
You absolutely were. If this had been done to you, you'd screech that it's manipulation. Whether manipulation results in a positive or negative ending, it's still manipulation even if it's a positive ending, not a "favour". You sound like a sociopath.
I have never checked my bf's phone and I've accidentally left mine at his place and he never checked it either. Fuck you.
My bf watches porn too. The reason it annoys me is because he asks me to send nudes too, but I know he is already looking at porn so it actually makes me more resentful and reluctant to send nudes. If you are masturbating to other women, why do you need my pictures on top of that? I already talked to him about it and he denied he watches porn anymore but I had to borrow his laptop for uni and saw he had been browsing porn sites and porn subreddits so he was lying about this. Normally this would be a dumpable offense but realistically, even if I dumped him, where else am I gonna find a guy who doesnt masturbate to other naked girls on the internet? They dont exist. Obviously it makes me feel shitty but women havent exactly been left with an alternative, apart from going volcel.
Its the breach of trust, not him doing it. So rather ask him why he needed to lie. And make sure he knows he dont do that again. A relationship without being able to talk about stuff is dead.
you should make it clear and simple that you dont want him watching porn, he already lied about not watching porn so he is clearly ashamed so he will probably fold if you tell him that is what you want
If your bf watches porn then you are the dumb one for staying whith a manwhore who has no morals
Either kill yourself (what I'm probably going to do) or learn how embrace the thought you don't need men in your life or become a lesbian, cause you ain't finding a bf material man who doesn't watch porn. Ever. Those guys who are anti-porn are actually men who masturbate to gay shit and feel guilty about it and try to blame it on porn. Porn is indeed not good to one's mind but if you're gay, well, you're gay dickhead
The reality is that you are either gonna have to settle with a massive degenerate manwhore who watches porn or a super massive degenerate manwhore who is a faggot.
I recommend you to go WGTOW/separatist feminist anon… it will keep you from getting AIDS…
Don't think it is a good idea to take advice from suicidal people, seems like your mindset is the opposite of healthy and something I'd want for myself
You may in fact just be mentally ill
>>38353>just find a guy who doesnt watch porn!
Doesnt exist. And I swear those anti porn dudes are either fruits in denial or former serial coomers who still yank it in private, and don’t have any actual moral opposition to porn, they are just seething because they broke their own dick from jerking it too much. Frankly they deserve to have ED.
Sounds like she is just blackpilled beyond the point of no return. The truth is scary.
So if a guy jerked off to hentai none of your complaints would apply. So you have no issue with hentai?
NTA but personally yeah, exactly. I have no problem with hentai, /aco/, erotic literature, etc, but I find live-action porn disgusting and intolerable because of the extremely high levels of abuse, exploitation, revenge porn, later regret and deep unhappiness for the actors, so on so forth that occurs.
Relative to OP and a lot of miners I am a coomer who doesn't mind (actually likes) coomer traits in a bf. But knowingly supporting the exploitation of real life people just to get off is morally unacceptable imo. Same reason I support the Nordic Model to prohibit prostitution.
I absolutely feel this way too, I have no idea why it hurts so much.
I've never been with a guy that regularly watches real life porn but sometimes even them talking about wanting to fuck anime girls makes me feel sick, what the fuck is wrong with me? I know it's irrational but still
>>38530>I've never been with a guy that regularly watches real life porn
I parrot this response. I even draw my own ffs.
I doesn't make me feel bad because every man I've been with (granted, the number is pretty low) has told me I'm pretty and hot. That's all I need. I don't look like a porn actress and the men I've been with don't look like the hot actors I like. Big deal.
But I'll admit, as my libido is very low, it kind of weirds me out when a man talks about porn and I can tell how much they've seen.
Most men hate porn and even find it evil (because of the damage it does to them and women). But it's a LITERAL drug that you can't just quit. Someone once said porn is a prison where you are both the inmate and the guard.
I wouldn't say most men hate it. Most men just don't care about it that much. The average visit to a porn site is like 6 minutes or something. Most men probably don't spend more than 1 hr a week on porn.
>Most men hate porn and even find it evil (because of the damage it does to them and women
most men think porn is bad the way junk food is bad. doesn't mean they hate it, and it certainly doesn't mean they don't use it.
I think this applies to destructive cases, like 4chan users for example, but not the general population. Because for most men it's not really a fixture of their life and doesn't impact them much.
>>39306>Most men hate porn and find it evil
Untrue, but if a man watches porn and blames other people for it, he is himself evil for having no sense of responsibility
It's like that experiment where you try to visualise an apple and a lot of people can't actually create and hold an image of an apple in their mind. Any guy who actively NEEDS porn to jerk off is basically an NPC. Doesn't mean guys who don't use porn aren't fantasizing about other women, but at least you don't have to be confronted with it.
There are guys who make a point of not using porn and not jerking off, but you probably don't want to be in a relationship with one.
It's faster for them to use porn than their imaginations though. It's like a 10-30 minute difference.
>>39339>tfw can come in under 5 minutes using imagination
Are most men this uncreative? Boggles the mind.
Or is it because I'm an artfag?
You sound like an unusual case as far as men and women.
I can come in 20 seconds using imagination alone if I want to, I thought this was common at least among women.
I don't know any man who needs 10 minutes, let alone 30, to make themselves cum
I assume it's a thing where you can be quick and dirty about it or you can take the time to enjoy yourself
Offtopic but where's that gif from? I really like it.
I wish I could tell you but I have no idea. I saved it from a chan back in 2014 because I really liked it just like you did, and though I vaguely recall other people asking the same thing back then, either I don't remember the answer or none has been given. Maybe it isn't from any specific franchise and merely the work of someone who just wanted to make a funky lizard head gif and did a very good job at it. We may never know
It isn't the 80s and 90s anymore with predatory porn producers getting women hooked on coke. Porn has never been more empowering to women. With sites like Only fans, Patreon, Tik-Tok and Twitch Women have complete control over the content they produce and get a bigger cut of the profits than ever before.
>>37218>I don't know where else the hostility could spring from. To me, it just sounds like "I'm super okay with porn, men love me more than you because of this, really they do",
I think it's more likely that those women are cam girls or other sex workers getting rich off men like op's boyfriend and don't want other women hurting their bottom line.
>>38091>I will never be able to compete.>I will never be even half as hot as they are, no matter how much effort I make.
Don't say that anon any woman can be a Stacy if she puts in enough effort.
Face was beautiful from the start. Fat was just hiding it. Everyone should just strive to be the best they can be though.
This is Riley Reid she is currently the third most popular girl on porn hub. Despite having a flat chest and an ugly face.
This girl seems to have flawless skin and great facial structure, hair and fat distribution once thin. She was cute even when fat. I'm assuming a lot of women here have characteristics that cannot be 'fixed' with just exercise or weight loss, if that was the case every thin person would be a Stacy. I'm 100% behind working to improve yourself for the sake of your own mental and physical health but it's not really a fair comparison when someone's had distinct advantages from the start.
Where? Where is her ugly face? She looks like what I imagine under 'cute and sexy sorority girl'.
It's really just raw faith at this point.>everyone but me pretty>me uglier than everyone
Just stop. Put some energy into something other than this.
I don't think I'm ugly. I'm average looking. I just think that telling people "everyone is beautiful" is not healthy.
Objective beauty does not exist.
Cope. Objective beauty is an instinct that animals are born with. Much of it stems from facial features associated with fertility (large eyes, jawlines, thick shiny hair), and avoiding features that look like genetic defects or diseases. (Acne, skin discoloration, assymetry). Maybe objective beauty at the top levels doesn't exist, but objective ugliness probably does.
>>39428>>39432>telling someone they're pretty is wrong>cope
Just stop. It's your own fault you're like this. Not anyone else's.
You talk like an Incel, why don't you go back to lookism or r9k.
The topic was objective beauty, don't pretend otherwise to 'defeat' the poster when you haven't even addressed them.>>39454
Ignoring the fact that differences in beauty exist is delusional and creates incels and whatnot. Incels are those disillusioned with the lies they were raised with who jump off the deep end into psychological dependence on thinking in the complete opposite. Besides, you're the only one being prejudiced and rude here so bandying about 'incel' is a bit rich.
If you really feel that way why don't you just give up on life.
My point is not that you should give up on being attractive. My point is that some people are born uglier than others, but we should be reasonable, accept that not everyone is born beautiful, and try to be the best version of ourselves possible and live healthy, happy lives regardless. Yes, a lot of people have problems with self image. But the solution is not to make blanket statements to people with faces you've never even been able to see that they are beautiful. It's okay not to be beautiful.
every time i tried to watch 3d porn the girls were so fucking ugly if I looked like that I'd kill myself except maybe jailbait abdl gets daddy's cummies uwu
I don't understand why people watch it over hentai and photoshopped still pictures and why cute girls only do onlyfans but never full on porn or how girls can be jealous of them
maybe I'm too much of a pedo or something idk tho I like women in real life but they either just don't do porn or porn is shoot to make them as unappealing as possible
I just don't understand
>>39663>why cute girls only do onlyfans but never full on porn or how girls can be jealous of them
I meant of hoes in porn not the cute girls that only do nude pictures
This is proof men will fuck anything
>>39663>every time i tried to watch 3d porn the girls were so fucking ugly if I looked like that I'd kill myself except maybe jailbait abdl gets daddy's cummies uwu
I swear about half the posts on here turn my brain to goo within a single sentence.
Are you sure you didn't reply to the wrong post. I admit I'm not lesbian nor bisexual (sadly) but I find her kind of attractive in other pictures. Just not in this one.
Just give them an ultimatum. Like, fuck, if they won't change for you then it's not worth it.
Nah I've seen her in other pictures and she's not that great. Mia Khalifa is cute but I really don't like her titjob.
>>39368>200lbs>looks skinnier than people at 155
is she like six feet tall?