>>74607
Also this makes me feel bad for my potential husband. I've only truly loved one man in my life, but he already got married and started his own family a few years ago and I've long accepted we will never be together. This really hurts and it makes me feel guilty knowing I probably won't love any future guy as much as I loved this man from my past. At the same time, I don't want to resign myself to being alone forever either. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I've accepted if I meet a guy, it's very likely he will be 'settling' for me too and wishes he could have some Stacy instead. This doesn't really bother me because I don't have an inferiority complex, I could definitely like or love someone in the future but I know deep down I'd feel guilty for never loving my husband as deeply and intensely as I loved this man from my past. It's been 12 years and I'm still not over him.

you need to get over the other guy and find someone that will appreciate you. don't settle

>>74607
> It seems that most women don't get to marry the guy they were madly in love with and end up having to settle for a guy they have lukewarm feelings for at best or don't love at all at worst.
Historically I've read this take as moid seething so it's jarring to see it here. It's normal to have "cool" periods with your romantic partner. 12 years is a long time to hold a torch for somebody (especially after they marry and reproduce with someone else). Have you been to therapy for this?

>>74621
I mean, it's mostly male bravado. Men literally fall in love quicker (and I'd assume they fall out of love quicker especially with post nut clarity being a thing) and often for shallower reasons. Or, at least less sustainable reasons. Their brain is more likely to shoot off hormones ASAP and this lends itself to its own upsides and downsides.

Most men don't get with the woman/girl they were madly into either. It's why there's married old songwriters writing so many songs about the blond teen they knew 20 years ago.

Anyway, I think OP is more in love with the idea of that guy than anything else at this point.

I've been considering marry simply because he's the father of my child. He's not really my type romantically or sexually.

I think it all comes down to reasonable expectations for marriage. For the majority of human history and even for most people now, marriage hasn't been done out of virtuous true love, and yet plenty live happily. It's a contract you sign in an attempt to ensure a little stability in your life, and to gain a partner you can rely on to be on your side against everyone else.

I suppose for me it's easier. While I'm not romantically in love with him, we've held mutual love and affection for each other over a decade now, I know he's going to be a great father and he's been by my side through all the worst times in my life. I'm not holding a torch for some lost love, and sleeping around isn't some grand temptation for me. Maybe my tastes will change over time and our feelings for each other could deepen to something romantic if given the room to grow.

>>74607
this is a hard question to answer because everyone has different goals, expectations and priorities.
personally, i don't care about marriage, and i'd personally prefer to never get married. if i ever found myself in a relationship that resembled a marriage, then it would have to be with someone i'm very attracted to and have also deep feelings for, so my standards are pretty high and i won't settle for less, but this is because i don't feel lonely and don't care for marriage in the first place, so i guess i can afford to have such expectations without feeling bad or like i'm missing out.
however, i totally get why someone who wants marriage would be in more of a rush and willing to "settle", i don't think it's a bad thing honestly

>>74624
Honestly it is pretty sad that you can't love the man you have had a child with. But then as you say, it might change over time.

>>74624
Please consider how this could affect your child if you don’t have great affection for each other. They might get a screwed up sense of what a normal relationship is supposed to be.

>>74640
The child is way more likely to be mentally screwed over if she decides to be a single mother or starts dating new guys and bringing them around (this is the perfect storm for child abuse)

A kid is way better off in a two parent home even if the parents aren't super lovey dovey towards each other, as long as they are loving towards the kid, and I say this as someone who experienced both this and being kid of a single mom

>>74607
Im glad Im not the only one who felt Paris's wedding pictures were so weird. She looks super discontent and bored and he looks really forced smiling and scared lol. I wonder if she still loves and misses some of her exes more than her current husband. I'm sure she probably does. I also think he must feel weird considering she's had like 40+ public boyfriends and who knows how many hookups.

>>74607
>having to settle for a guy they have lukewarm feelings for at best or don't love at all at worst.
what do you mean by "having to"? in the first world nobody has to settle.

>>74658
95% of couples in the west end up settling for someone who wasn't their first choice anon. Most people get married because they don't want to grow old alone.

One of my writing classes in college had us read this article and I found it really interesting.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200001/will-your-marriage-last

It talks about how the longer and/or intense the initial "courtship" phase of a relationship is, the higher likelihood it would have in ending with divorce. One thing I respect about arranged marriages is that they seem to have a higher amount of people entering them with a more mature outlook on their relationship - They have a better understanding that navigating one is a continuous learning process for themselves and their partner. People who just want to be swept away like in some Hollywood-style romance will probably start to have unrealistic expectations of their partner and resent them for it. On the contrary, with an arranged marriages, there are actual cases where the people fall in love with eachother due to the hardship and growth that brings them together. And they end up far more fulfilled in their marriage, than the former. That's not to say you should settle for someone you have 0 attraction to, but I think "love" is definitely something you learn and not just know..like from "first sight" or whatever.

Also, it's important to understand that marriage has lost much of it's original meaning. People who throw themselves into it are ones who probably still hold onto that overly-romanticized "white picket fence" image of it. In my opinion, its nothing more than a piece of paper to formally bind your assets to your partner's. It shouldn't have to bring in anything else new, that you couldn't have before it - a house/apartment, kids, a pet, sleeping in the same bed, etc. Heck, you may even be sharing finances before and without marriage. The marriage just formalizes it. I personally just see it as a formal transaction, albeit one that they are now committing to for life. Another reason I think it ends badly for so many people is because they don't really want the "for life" part. They want to keep chasing Hollywood romances.

>>74663
Maybe the reason couples lasted longer in the old days was simply because they were mostly fast track or shotgun marriages.

Nowadays it's common for men in a couple to wait 5-10 years to propose and have long engagements that last years. Ofc you're gonna be bored of each other by the time the wedding rolls around and all that added stress doesn't help. In the past you knew whether or not you were gonna marry someone within a month or so. Unfortunately this is what happens when men have access to sex before marriage. They won't bother buying the whole cow because they can get the milk for free.

>>74640
I feel the same way >>74655 does. It's not as if we're ice cold and tense all the time. We've been friends for over a decade, we sleep in the same bed most nights, spend most of our time together have no problem communicating. Our love might not be romantic, but it's deep and the birth of our daughter has just made it more complex. Maybe when she grows up and moves out we might separate, but neither of us are particularly needy when it comes to sexual or romantic relationships, so it's not like we'll suddenly feel our chance to find The One is slipping away and divorce in a maelstrom of chaos for a child.

>>74608
First of all you need therapy or something if it's really been 12 years and you can't move on. You're clearly not allowing yourself to meet enough people and this is holding you back from experiencing new love. Also, high intensity of emotion doesn't make a good relationship. The guy I had the strongest feelings for turned out to be a sociopath who treated me like dirt.

Eventually I found someone who I never would have considered AT FIRST, for shallow reasons: 1. Didn't share the same hobbies, 2. Came from different cultures, 3. Wasn't physically attracted. However, over the course of getting to know him, I realized we shared the same values, philosophies, religion, and goals for a relationship. He treats me a million times better than anyone else I've been with, and inspires me to improve. Are my emotions toward him quite the same as what I experienced for the last guy? No - because I was YOUNG when I fell in love at that time, and emotions are always more intense when you're young. My feelings for that other person were unhealthy and obsessive and ultimately, self-destructive. The feelings I have for my fiancé are still passionate, but without rose-colored glasses. There is trust, respect, stability, and we have all sorts of fun together. It's a million times better than being stuck in a pathetic one-sided romance novel.

>>74663
This just sounds like fucking hell on earth. Gtfo out with this thanks.

>>74607
This entire shitty post sounds like it was set up and designed by a moid, bringing up arranged marriages and all. I question the whole basis for this thread. Why does it have to be a husband? Why can't we just live with our best friends?? There's nothing irreplaceable about the marriage arrangement at all.

>>74624
Yeah and it isn't necessary for stability, not at all. There are countless ways to achieve that either on your own or with best friends. You don't have to live with someone whose probably going to end up taking advantage sexually, mentally, trashing your mind, stressing you the hell out with his demands, etc. This whole thread sounds like a trap. Marrying someone I don't rally love reminds me of giving away one more collossal thing of mine, ontop of billions of little things they take away or ruin. They designed all of it because they knew and anticipated you'd sell out or settle. All so they can get the cheapest fuck out of it, only using half the effort you put into into emotional intelligence, masochism, your appearance, etc. I mean hello watch a porn they literally get off to sadism in most of it now. Go look at the most popular fucking videos on pornhub now. Fucking and raping Ukrainian women. Why would I trust my life in any guys hands who didn't make me feel perfect????? Think about it logically now, with everything we know about them. It makes perfect sense to only have high expectations or skip the entire thicket of bullshit altogether. Why when I can be happy and unburdened down to my core?

Not to mention if you live in a place like China.. India.. japan…Italy it's even more of a suicide mission. If you live in a place like that op has no idea what she's talking about. I think it's bad advice for most women on earth, and the op isn't even taking that into consideration. To not explore better alternatives before just settling because willing doormats and luddites have been doing it for ages, is just batshit when you think about it.

>>74717
>having a best friend
Lol ok Miss Popular Stacy

>>74751
I'm not popular I'm pretty normal honestly. Still marriage sounds more like being stabbed than remaining single.

>>74607
You're falling into the trap that love is the ooey gooey mushy feelings they you have towards someone 2 months into a relationship, not the conscious decision every day to work with someone as a team on life stuff. The feeling you call "love" comes and goes. Even if this fantasy you've created with this other guy were real it would come and go. Stop clinging to fantasy and come back to reality.

>>74778
Might be true but keep in mind that the amount of men that want to build a mutual partnership with a woman they genuinely value the labor/dreams/emotions of and respect is fairytale-likely as well. A lot of people get into convenienceships that aren't better than just being with friends and also have more potential issues.

>>74715
How do you even sleep with him if you are not physically attracted?
Also do you keep in mind he can also be not attracted by you, if you share same values, as you say? I mean, that’s why men are cheating, good luck, I guess

So, you are fine when your husband is settling for you? Doesn’t love you?
Okay…

>>74786
How so? Do you have something backing this up that isn't trusting what people virtuesignal on social media? Don't trust men that claim they're great husbands.
Men cheat more into marriage and their effort and love more steadily declines than womens'. It is extremely common for women to have to shoulder the domestic/social labor of a male even in 50-50 relationship as well and often be better off (on average) single in a lot of ways.

Women report constantly seeing married men leering at women 24/7 and that most married men flirt, etc., with coworkers. You can maybe argue "b-but it's just playing around!" though it's pretty much a given men would go ahead with an affair if their flirt was willing.
Pair with stuff like men being several times more likely to abandon ill spouses, etc. A genuinely loving husband that won't cheat even if a 10/10 wanted him is in the minority. In that vein, maybe you could go the "b-but cheating is ok" route to write this off though I'd side-eye you.

It is a normie saying that men are as faithful as their options, after all. I also listen to women more than anything as well, then match it up with, well, the statistics. Pretending we live in a trad-friendly world is weird.

>fuckboy chad
>thinking average or ugly men are way more likely to be angels
you sound like you're an incel from 4chan yourself, but I've never hung out with 4channers nor fuckboy chads, so, ok.

>>74792
Also, saying this off to the side but let me note there's a lot of trad-propagandists sneaking around CC that often say abstract things like "there's so many good men that are conscientious and willing to work towards a relationship and isn't reward-driven!" to keep girls and women centering their life around eventually finding a mate instead of accepting that it's unlikely.

Already, checking for signs a guy remotely fits the bill rules out the majority of men off the bat, and many are misrepresenting propensities as well because effort/investment tends to spike the most in the first weeks of a relationship for men.
It's a lot like how now there's men lying that they don't use porn because it's become normal for men to lie if they think it'd expediate the process of gaining access to a woman. This isn't some weird incel shit, it's now become the reality of the dating market. Finding a guy that isn't sex-driven and has that moral and structured conscientiousness is pretty hard.

>>74792
Anon, there's millions of women in happy relationships with men who love them deeply. On this board there are dozens of miners in loving relationships with men who treat them well. Yes I know lots of moids suck, but you're starting to sound exactly like an incel crying about how there's no good women left. There are plenty of guys out there who don't watch porn and who desire family life and monogamy.

>>74797
Yes, I'm the incel soundalike when you're the one that dropped a literal incel "women just are thinking about fuckboy chad" talking point and ignored me already insinuating that I'm not talking about all men.

My point is that it's not kind to encourage women to center what is actually kind of a relative exception to the rule as being a major goal in their life and keep them wistful and hopeful.

I say this because I've seen so many people, normie friends included, fall for the same. I have a friend that's a Christian, a very sweet girl that fantasized constantly about marriage, etc. She found a Christian nice guy that seemed upright and stoic that ended up lying about his porn use for months and eventually it turned out worse than that (he sexually assaulted his little sister). He was a karate teacher of children and everyone loved him. I have seen the same pretty commonly. Someone finds what appears to be an upstanding decent guy then there's an eventual mask-off. A lot of women get burned by being too wistful and assuming there's just plenty of good guys at their finger tips. Sure? But there's a chance they'll experience trauma if they spend years trying to find him (which is often what happens), like my friend did, and plenty of other women I've known.

Also, "don't watch porn." Automatically that rules out most men and that was my point. You frame it as if there's an infinite abundance of men when, effectively, you're encouraging women to seek out what is a fraction of already what is the minority of men. Single, doesn't use porn, not old, is conscientious, etc.

What I'm saying is not "haha, female separatism!" but that people really should stop acting like womens' end goal should be getting a man. And that you refer to relationships here on CC has a good example when most of the women in them here are actually saying horrible things as if the few seemingly healthy (and not completely unrealistic/fanfic tier) ones are the default is…also awkward, alongside how the majority of the user base are very young here, especially because you can't substantiate what their relationships really look like or apply it to married women as a whole.

Also "millions of women" sounds like the bandwagon fallacy. It doesn't cancel the points I made even though you apparently think so.

>>74797
I somewhat agree with most of what you said but
>There are plenty of guys out there who don't watch porn
girl don't be naive. This is not true, I fucking wish it was.

>>74624
Bitch do you hear yourself talk?

>>74811
honestly I think she just wants women to be in relationships even if it involves lying. there's no way she can't know even the majority of the guys that claim they don't watch porn watch porn.

>>74815
Most millenial and zoomer women watch porn too. What's your point? Expecting your partner to find you the only sexually attractive person in the entire world is extremely egotistical and unrealistic, almost ridiculous imo. Your bf doesn't become blind when he's in a relationship and neither do you. I'm sure plenty girls here masturbate to their husbandos or celebrity crushes even while in relationships with real life boyfriends. It's harmless. Grow up.

>>74801
>Christian guy turns out to be a pedo
Wow who would have thought

>>74823
>most
what? statistically that isn't true, women still use porn a fraction as much as men do on top of that. it's harder to find a male non porn user than the other way around.

few of us actually expect our partners to never be attracted to anyone else, but someone who is constantly seeking out other partners or using porn, that's not normal. Porn isn't nature.
I love that you think it's the same exact thing as finding other people attractive, or that fantasizing is literally the same as porn, though, it really says a lot.

>porn is harmless
ok, you think porn in the capacity it exists in modern society is 100% natural and normal, with sites like pornhub having had millions of rape, cp, and abuse vids actually on it–of which behind the scenes it was pretty much known…it's just no one cared until money was at stake.
this is completely normal, and something that almost all porn watchers essentially condone with feeding into the industry. the porn industry pretty much systematically chews up and spits out the women in it with PTSD, drug addictions, and several times the likelihood of being murdered.

porn affects the brain in a very, very different way than simply looking at a hot person.
porn harms the prefrontal cortex and causes addiction-like changes to the brain EVEN when someone isn't addicted to it–it's wild shit. there's even stuff like how viewing porn before trials makes male judges way more lenient on rapists. porn makes dumb men more sexually violent (at least in the short-term) on average. most porn isn't vanilla nor natural, and tends to not be showing natural and tends to be a brutal, unrealistic depiction of sex. porn slowly desensitizes the brain to normal stimuli, which leads a lot of men to increasingly compare the women they're with to porn stars (obviously not all men but it's pretty common).

monkey see, monkey do.

the orgasm/satisfaction rates for straight women are often in the shitter somewhat because men are pretty much primed by porn to take a voyeuristic role instead of being truly intimate with their partner, and men are increasingly resorting to beating women to get off as well as doing other things, like anal…
…of which they personally admitted to across the internet that the "turn on" is making their gf feel horrible.

the top searches for porn often include sexist, racist, and in general pretty creepy shit, because, again, the light stuff becomes boring once someone becomes a user.

>egoistic
well, at least I'm not one that thinks a copy-paste redditor talking point is true.

in any case I am aware this is a complete waste of time to write up, owing to, again, how you think someone that doesn't like porn = being able to find other people besides their partner hot.
if you just ignore the science on the subject…fine. but please understand how wrong it is to bully people that just don't want someone that is dependent on what is pretty much the media-equivalent of doing drugs.

>>74828
also if other women are anti-porn, feel free to add why or other observations, plz and thank you.

>>74829
oh. jokes on me anyway. just realized that was probably a male whining.

>>74827
'Conservative' 'Christian' men are exactly the same as atheist liberal men deep down, except they lie and virtue signal about everything they do on top of being awful moids, which makes them even worse.

>>74823
wow a male on the internets ew

>>74715
Does your current partner know that your feelings for him aren't as intense as they were for your ex? If he did how do you think he would react.

>>74624
>he's the father of my child
>He's not really my type romantically or sexually
Genuinely why did you fuck him in the first place? Also don't marry him, it'll only turn out poorly. The kid is already screwed because she/he probably won't see proper love growing up, but seeing a fucked up marriage where the husband and wife hate each other is far worse. Just do joint custody or whatever.

>>75357
Sometimes people fall out of love over time anon.

>>74787
Over time I became physically attracted. Nowadays he's hot as fuck to me even though he used not to be on first impression years ago.

>>75246
He knows that I did love him, and no, he does not know how obsessive I used to be over him. The nature of that love was self-destructive and harmful and stupid. Would my guy be sad? I don't know, potentially. However, there is no use in digging up the past. Because that other person is long dead to me and only fills me with disgust when I think of him, not longing reminiscence. The love I have for the man I'm now with is, ultimately, deeper.

I think y'all put far too much emphasis on mere emotion, as I suspect many of you are in your teens or early 20s. Eventually you mellow out and realize how unimportant most of it is. Try getting older first.

>>75645
Most people fall out of love after marriage. Very few people are horny for each other and super affectionate 10-15 years into a marriage. It become like a friendship or blood family relationship, which is similar to what that miner described, so people should really stop giving her shit for it.

>>75680
>Most people fall out of love after marriage.
The problem is a lot of people confuse love with lust, or they or their partner lack the emotional maturity to know the difference. It doesn't matter how perfect your partner is, you will stop feeling the same lust you did for them when you first met. But in the same way that you don't suddenly stop loving your closest friends and family, if you actually love your partner you won't suddenly stop loving them.

>>75705
It's easy to stop loving family members or friends if they hurt you over and over or don't respect your boundaries. Same with relationships. Also I wouldnt say the bonds involved in paternal or maternal love are anything like those involved in romantic love. Romantic love and familial love are not really alike at all.

>>75716
>It's easy to stop loving family members or friends if they hurt you over and over or don't respect your boundaries.
I meant you don't suddenly stop loving your family or friends for no reason, like some people claim you would with a romantic partner you "love". Also if your friends or family hurt you do they really love you?
>Romantic love and familial love are not really alike at all.
I disagree. Obviously the relationship we have with every person is multifaceted and complex but the feeling of being loved and loving is all the same to me. I'm not suggesting that romance, intimacy and love are all the same thing. Like love is the deep affection and warmth that people close to us make us feel.
Sorry I was just writing some thoughts to the person I replied to and didn't really read the thread so I'm not trying to make any judgements about OP's situation.

>>74607
It sucks, if he has money it sucks but less but still sucks. Just don't marriage without love is just mega cringe. Is a man with money worth it? Unless he is maybe Elon Musk? No.
Don't fall for the Sugar Daddy meme it's disgusting, you will find it disgusting eventually if you do it not even wealth can make an intolerable man tolerable.

>>74607
Incel hands typed this post