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/feels/ - Advice & Venting

Talk about relationships of all kinds, ask for advice, or just vent

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On living together pre-marriage Anonymous 74733

Why do so many women nowadays agree to live with their boyfriend before getting married? This post isn't as much directed at those with no interest in marriage, but particularly girls who move in with a moid hoping he'll propose later. Still, I've met women who previously didn't care about marriage, but wanted it later when it became embarrassing to still be "the girlfriend" after buying a house together and even having kids.

Living unmarried with a moid only ever benefits him and never the woman - and they know it. I think women are selling themselves short when they agree to such an arrangement. Literally the reason he hasn't popped the question is because he thinks (consciously or not) that he can still do better, and is keeping you around for easy companionship until he meets someone else he wants to commit to. If a man wants to marry you, YOU WILL KNOW IT, he will not string you along with a carrot on a stick for years.

Throughout my dating life, I weeded out SO many dudes when I told them I refused to live together premarriage. They didn't like it? They fucked off and didn't waste my time. When I started dating my now-husband, I again made my intentions clear. He was totally fine with it, and proposed after a year and a half. He's amazing and treats me like gold.

A friend of mine recently broke up with her boyfriend for his commitment issues. The guy moved across the fucking country to live with her. They had a 3-year relationship, yet he somehow couldn't even DISCUSS marriage, saying it made him uncomfortable. Turns out he didn't actually see her as wife material and just didn't want to be alone. I have another friend who has had at least 3 live-in boyfriends and wonders why she's still unmarried in her mid-30s.

I've only had ONE friend who lived with her boyfriend and ended up marrying him. The rest were unhappy, broken up, or in a constant state of waiting. Men already hold this shitty "power" over us by being the expected gender to propose. Why give them more power by agreeing to live with them first? If money is an issue, just get a roommate, it's more worth it than the hell of not feeling good enough.

Anonymous 74734

true, bump

Anonymous 74736

It’s a demo period
If male is shit you are free to flee no strings attached

Anonymous 74738

co-signing a mortgage is more binding than marriage

Anonymous 74740


Yeah, idk, it's one of those things that kind of is a bandaid for a bigger issue.

If for example a guy feels like he has total access to you (living together, etc) it prob won't get better. Why do you think virginity was so "valued" back then? It was so men could find a status/sex-related reason to valuing a woman because they couldn't otherwise. This is why men that marry virgins tend to rapidly devalue them and then seek out teen virgins afterwards. Has to do with chasing "rarity". Likewise, a lot of marriages are pretty miserable as a lot of men see it as a sign to get comfortable.

Ideally a guy would actually be loving and caring regardless but…that doesn't really happen that much. Maybe it'd be best to maybe look for a sign a guy doesn't completely drop the ball if he gets comfortable, does half the chores without making a piss about it or ever needing incentive, among other things, and seems to genuinely enjoy making you happy even if there's no sex involved?
One of the best shortcuts to understanding this is, simply, how a guy treats you when you're sick and and a wreck and no one else is around to see.

oh and btw anons, it's a thing in certain places that two people are considered in common law marriage after living together for a set period of time. look into it and make sure you protect yourself.

Anonymous 74744

>Maybe it'd be best to maybe look for a sign a guy doesn't completely drop the ball if he gets comfortable, does half the chores without making a piss about it or ever needing incentive, among other things, and seems to genuinely enjoy making you happy even if there's no sex involved?

This is important, finding a guy who treats you well even when he doesn't get sex. I was really stupid when I was in my early 20s and stayed with a sex-obsessed guy for years. He constantly "needed" it and would guilt me if I wasn't in the mood.

I do think marriage is supposed to be the beginning of the race, not the "finish line" as many people see it.

Anonymous 74746

I dated a sex pest too, they are the worst.

Anonymous 74747

unfortunately just finding a guy not obsessed with sex/porn is hard mode.

Anonymous 74748

I get that, but imagine drawing the short straw in a one-sided scenario

>After happily living together for x amount of time, you decide you want to be his wife

>You love him, but something is holding him back, something that makes no sense to you
>You keep expressing your desire to marry, but are met with constant excuses
>"Money is tight right now", "My mom isn't on board with us yet", "It's just a lot of pressure for me", ad infinitum
>Moid only wants to "have fun" and "chill" with you, bringing up serious plans always kills his mood
>Patiently keep waiting, try to be cool about it, surely he'll come around
>Years later
>"Oh well I don't think marriage is necessary anyway, our relationship is enough"

I see no reason to risk such a tragedy

Anonymous 74749

Hmm. Yeah. Must be particularly rare for zoomers. That sucks a lot.

I'm millennial. My non-sex-crazed fiancé is 10 years older than me, late Gen X. Gets turned on by basic vanilla stuff and doesn't have a laundry list of fantasies he needs me to fulfill. It's pretty great, sad that he's of a dying breed.

Anonymous 74750

Nta but
>years later
Why does it matter at that point? That's a verified long-term relationship already. If he is set on leaving you, he'd have likely just divorced you if you got married anyway. Same as if he cheats, which married men do all the time. A wedding doesn't make someone magically super loyal to you lmao.

To me marriage just seems to be a promise of being together for as long as possible, and you get a cute celebration and neat titles. I'm not religious or too fixated on social norms, so anything of more significance would be for my partner's sake. Saying that as someone who would like to marry her current boyfriend some day haha (and he allegedly does as well). But if he were the type not to want it but still be together forever anyway, it makes no tangible difference. I just want a life pal. A little buddy to goof around with. And regular monogamous sex.

If you're religious I get it though.

Anonymous 74759

while i do agree with you marriage is just a contract, in that situation, those two people are not on the same page anymore. clearly marriage has become important to the girl for whatever reason, so if the guy really wants to make her happy for life, why can't he just respect her wishes and make it official? why is it hard at that point? but yeah marriage won't prevent anyone from cheating and it's delusional to think otherwise. still, both people need to have the same goals/foundation for the relationship

Anonymous 74774

I'd wan't to live with a guy first for at least a little bit just so I know how he keeps his house up and how he acts in private.

Anonymous 74837


You do you and those are your boundaries and they've worked for you. But for me, living together pre-marriage isn't some grand favor for him, it's a part of the screening process. Living with someone reveals a side of them you can't see through dating and I don't want to get married and find out they're actually a monster. I had an ex fiance who became abusive as hell as soon as we lived together and i called off the engagement. Had I just married him and THEN moved in, it would have been harder to back out. I have to see how living with them will be first.

Anonymous 74838

Ok but why would refusing to live together until marriage change anything? It's not like he's going to marry you regardless, and sure doing that might scare away some commitment-phobes, but you also will be going into a completely different dynamic with someone blind. People are entirely different once you live together and you become legally binded to someone who has an entire side of themself you haven't witnessed.

Anonymous 79362

I think the whole point of not living together is that it helps if you're waiting till marrage to have sex.
If you're not waiting, there really isn't any reason not to live together other than what you mentioned.

Anonymous 79371

People show themselves from their best side, if you only see them on a date. You learn a lot about other people, if you live with them. I‘d prefer to know what I am getting into personally.

Anonymous 79391

With this economy, it's very hard to move out by yourself now. And I believe you don't truly know somebody unless you live together. What if you marry a man and then when you move in with him you find out he doesn't clean his house… at all? Or what if he's simply just gross at home?

Anonymous 79392

>Men already hold this shitty "power" over us by being the expected gender to propose
This is so stupid. If you want to marry him, nothing is stopping you from proposing to him. Once you accept this, that whole paragraph becomes null and void. He accepts it? Cool. He doesn't accept it? You'll at least talk about the reasons he won't marry you.
Sitting in the corner sulking because your man doesn't propose to you when you have an otherwise healthy relationship is so juvenile, it makes no sense. For all you know, marriage could just not be in his mind because he doesn't feel like it adds anything that he doesn't already have.

Anonymous 79394

Just propose to your boyfriend.

t. proposed to my husband

Anonymous 79396

That's so cute anon. How did you do it? What was his reaction? Did you talk about it before?

Anonymous 79397

If this were true, you should see marriages that take place after cohabitation being more successful and less likely to divorce. Most research I've seen on the subject the result is neutral if not negative, with the possibility that cohabitating is more likely to end in a divorced marriage.

Anonymous 79398

>How did you do it?
Ah, well, it was kind of spur of the moment. It's quite embarrassing and dare I say degenerate. I don't talk about it much, but doing so anonymously should be fine though.

We were both high on DXM (main ingredient in cough syrup, though we were classy and just got it in pure powder form from China). While on the first plateau we shared a bout of astral sex (or a shared hallucination of such) that involved no actual physical interaction between us in the room. (Men can't maintain an erection on DXM FYI). Feeling utterly elevated and incredibly emotional vulnerable after what can only be described as soul fusing I proposed and he accepted.
>What was his reaction?
Later when both of us were sober I reconfirmed that he was 100% okay with it and actually consented instead of just, you know, being drugged out and agreeing in the moment. He reconfirmed that's how he felt and that he wanted to share his life with me. Took us a while to get married, but that was fine.

It should be noted that I was also that one that asked him to date me instead of vice versa before we started dating. So me taking the initiative on things was already a precedent.
>Did you talk about it before?
Like on what being married means, or just about the possibility of us getting married? I believe the answer is no on both fronts. The first conversation definitely occurred a day or two after the proposal to clarify.

Anonymous 79399

>getting high on cough syrup
seek help

Anonymous 79402

Haven't done it in years so don't think I need to "get help".

LSD and shrooms are better anyways.

Anonymous 79403

seriously, if your life is that dull you need to take drugs then get help

Anonymous 79404


Again, haven't taken any drugs in a while. So unless I need retroactive help to stop doing drugs earlier than I already did, I'm uncertain what you're actually complaining about.

Anonymous 79405

you said you hadn’t taken cough syrup (kek) in a while but then listed others as being better, implying you take them instead. you never said you haven’t taken anything for a while

i’m not complaining about anything either, i told you to get help. that’s not complaining

guess drugs already scrambled your brain

Anonymous 79406

I suppose so. Alas, poor me, victim of my own choices and consequences. Guess it's better to be OP and mull over the fact I can't utter the sentence "Will you marry me?" because of some "rule" stating only men can do it.

Anonymous 79439

it's stupid to marry someone without seeing how you coexist together in the same space, but it's also stupid to live with any male you don't see a future with. if you're not already serious about him and aren't sure if marriage is on the table, don't do it

Anonymous 79442

I feel like I'm on a different planet than you OP, must be a cultural difference. Married after 1.5 years? Are you 30+ and feel like time is running out or something?

You live together to see if you could handle decades of it after you get married. You don't truly know someone until you live together. A relationship is loving each other, living together is oftentimes tolerating each other.

Anonymous 79443


I think the biggest issue with this may be that what if living with said person is unbearable or just doesn't work out?
I mean, living with someone is very different from only seeing them some of the time, and you don't wanna find out that the arrangement you two have isn't working AFTER you get married.

Anonymous 79444

If this worked, couples who cohabit would be less likely to divorce, this is not the case. Observations range from cohabitation being "neutral" to "extremely negative" for marital success.

The "demo phase" does not exist, cohabiting does not prepare you for marriage in any meaningful way.

Anonymous 79456

Either way, that may be due to the type of couple that gets married without living together first (religious people and arranged marriages, etc). Marriage statistics in the general population are not exactly gucci overall.

Anonymous 79472

This reads like some scrote psyop.
>doesn't move in with a moid before marrying him to see how he acts at home and if he's going to do any chores at all
>assumes every woman living with a moid pre-marriage is slaving away as if that shit doesn't happen the most often after getting married
>thinks marrying a guy after dating for 1,5 year and only then moving in together is somehow 'not giving men power'
>reddit spacing

Anonymous 79619

well i think its ok if youre dead set on marrying each other even if its an informal engagement

Anonymous 79798


Thought I replied and I didn't. Apologies.

I haven't done a deep dive into the literature, here's a blog which cites some of the latest research though.

For the specific articles.
>Cohabitation before marriage is associated with marriage dissatisfaction
Cohabitation found to not lead to better marriage cohesion.
Sliding Versus Deciding: Inertia and the Premarital Cohabitation Effect*
(Most cohabitation positive study) Cohabitation lowers divorce rate first year of marriage but reduces to baseline (or worse) in the long term.

It should be noted that most of the research demonstrating that cohabitation lead to bad marriage outcomes occurred before the 2000 where cohabitation was less common and viewed somewhat negatively. What's important to note is, even though a majority of people support cohabitation as a "reasonable step" towards marriage, and thus there is no negative societal connotation, no research shows cohabitating couples have better success. They are, again, at best neutral as far as divorce outcomes. Best pro-cohabitation evidence shows that there's less chance of divorce 1 year into the marriage… and then it gets worse then other marriages after that point.

At worst, cohabitation lowers your chance of marriage success, at best, it doesn't do anything, which means it doesn't prepare you for marriage, which means if you're looking for marriage there's no reason to wait because, again, cohabitation has no proven evidence that it helps a marriage succeed/prevents failure. If it actually helped something, at some point, anywhere in time should show what is being claimed in this thread. It never materializes though. Again, at best neutral, at worst negative.

Anonymous 79799

It should be noted I am not advocating for just jumping into a marriage with any random moid. My one and only point is that any who says "Cohabitation prepares you for marriage" are backed by zero empirical evidence in the long term.

Anonymous 79823

>Institute for Family Studies
Keep in mind this site has a clear right wing bias for promoting "traditional" households and has been known to push studies with faulty methodologies. I would be skeptical that this site gives you a very clear picture of the literature.

Anonymous 79953

How else are you going to know if they're a man-child at home? You don't truly know someone until you live with them and by marriage it will be too late.

Anonymous 80054

Right? I can't imagine marrying someone before ever sleeping with them, without seeing what it's like to live with them, or meeting their family. I want to be comfortable with all of those things for at least a year before I'd even think about accepting a proposal.

Anonymous 80068

This post is completely nonsensical since marriage only benefits men and is a stupid thing to do.

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