I'm tired of being around women Anonymous 76086
I'm tired of being around women. It's depressing, boring, heartbreaking. Every female space I go, it's all the same: discussion of abusive relationships, unquestioned heterosexuality, "beauty" tips, self-loathing, gossip, bitterness, and well-accepted hopelessness.
Women talk about how ugly, inappropriate, fat, and revolting they are. It's so, so boring. They talk about fashion and make-up and the moral implications of either. They view the world like a movie where they're both the director and the starting actress, carefully planning every move and choosing every angle in order to create magic. If I'm uglier than she is, she'll look at me with pity and try to "improve". If I'm prettier than she is, she'll look at herself, then at me, then at herself again, and she will compare us, letting me know how my existence is a threat to her sanity.
Most, if not all, the conversations I have with women don't pass the Bechdel test. They talk about their men, and how much they hate these men, and how miserable their lives are by their side. They'll spend hours complaining about male behavior, and will not have the self awareness to realize that they can live without them. I'm tired of seeing them wear themselves out for some being that I see as so below me I don't even waste time considering, let alone allow him to take over my life. He's ugly and a loser, he's boring and stupid. Are they all blind? Am I going crazy? Can we shut up about these men and talk about anything else?
I want to discuss my hobbies and the things I learn and the things that shape my world, and yet all of it gets derailed and frowned upon. I keep getting affected by the venomous conversations most women have. They all make me feel like I'm too much or too little, as if I'm some failed subhuman parody of a woman. They don't listen to me, they just enforce their authority on womanhood to try to correct who I am.
Whenever I talk to another woman, I find my mind filled by self-hatred, vanity, obsession, and resentment. If I ever bring this up, I get shut down as a "NLOG" and "not feminist enough". Well, then I don't want to be a feminist if feminism means uncritical consumption, holding women to impossible standards while praising men over the bare minimum, sexism, male supremacy, shallowness, and hostility. That's not feminism to me, that's just using the "women must support each other" in order to avoid change.
Why is it wrong if I tell her I find centering your life around beauty devoid of meaning shallow, but it's okay and even rightful if she insults me for not spending thousands in my appearance? Who's holding the status quo here?
I hope my point doesn't come across as "I'm better than other women." That's not it. Rather, "patriarchy and their enablers are wearing me down."
Before anyone tries to gaslight me, I'm a woman on a third world country with ridiculously high rates of suicide, anorexia, and beautifying surgeries. I know my experience.
>I get shut down as a "NLOG"
Because that's exactly what you are lol. There are plenty of threads here that aren't about men or makeup.
Yeah it’s like normie women have a built-in social equalizer. They can’t stand even being in the presence of someone they don’t understand, because if that woman seems “better” they feel threatened, and if “worse” they don’t want to be associated with a social undesirable. So they end up conforming to the least common denominator. At my college most girls were well-traveled because of all the abroad programs, but I wasn’t, and it felt like Rome and Paris were all they talked about, and they only took a break to brag about what they bought that week.
But if they think they have the chance to be “special” like the different person…you get whole groups aspiring to be mentally ill (anorexia, adhd, depression/anxiety), or to have a novel sexuality without wanting to act upon it. It gets old. I hang out exclusively with femcels and tradwives now.
No she meant irl girls in her country specifically
When you say “female spaces”, do you just mean online? Cause then yeah, you’re going to see a lot of topics like that because women seek out other women when they want to discuss those things. If you want to talk about a specific hobby, there’s probably a place centered around that which is not specific to women. And of course, talking to people irl isn’t as you’ve described either. If you’re frustrated by the conversations you’re having, maybe it’s time to change up your environment.
and nothing of value was lost
That's pretty heartbreaking anon. The only thing I can tell you is that there are places not like that. I work in a women only clinic(by coincidence, not by policy or law) and beauty barely comes up, we are too focused on our careers and helping others. So if you wanted to escape, there are always options. Also, based on your description I'm guessing you live in South Korea. Everything I've heard says that is a nightmare place for any woman that does not conform, let alone one that fights for women's rights. Is there anywhere else you can/want to live?
South Korea is first world though?
How old are you and the women you're interacting with anon?
I used to be like what you described when I was a teenager and only started to grow out of it when I was 18. I do wish more female spaces would just stop talking aiut men or gossip, so I think I can empathise to a extent. >>76095
How did you meet your current friends?
I agree, it's kind of demoralizing when I post on here or lolcow about a hobby and get no replies while the bait post below me about relationships, weight issues or boob size instantly gets a 100-post argument going. There are some forums with a lot of female members that have more variety of discussion, however I notice the userbase is generally older and more normie.
I'm talking about IRL. Read the first answer to this post. And I don't feel superior to other women, so it's not NLOG. Stop dismissing my pain.
I can't change my environment if everyone I know is that way, and I'm not very social.>>76101
Good for them.>>76103
I'm not in SK, but the situation here is similar. People are fucking crazy, man. I can't go a day without being treated like shit because I don't look visually appealing. I've been called slurs over it, even. It's fucking insane. My family won't stop calling me fat or asking me to shave, even though I'm considered thin anywhere else in the world and don't have a lot of hair.
My environment is hard to change because I have no friends and don't go out much. I mostly interact with family and classmates, but it's painful to me to hear them talk, to be frank.>>76107
I'm 19, people I interact with are usually 20-45.>>76109
Lolcow is a terrible place. All they do is tear women down, and if you complain you're NLOG and not a feminist and a moid. Fucking top kek.
I'm also a third world miner and I kind of get where you're coming from. Most if not all of my close female friends center their lives around men and molding themselves to cater to them. In high school one of them told me that her only aspiration in life was to become a housewife for this coomer guy she was dating. When I opened up about my struggle with PTSD and depression to my group of friends and how hard it was to go through it alone I was patted on the back and asked why I haven't gotten a boyfriend if that was the case. Teenage pregnancy is a really big problem here and one of my friends chose to raise her child instead of going to college. Even as an adult I'm still looking for independent, nerdy, hobbyist, or career-driven women to befriend. Best I can do for now is read books, memoirs, and blogs of likeminded women and interact with femanons on the internet.
I must say though, "fashion and beauty" can be hobbies and valid interests. I let my friends talk about fashion and makeup because it seems like they spend a lot of time learning about those just like how I learn about my own interests. Heck, some of them even made a career out of fashion and makeup. It just sucks that your friends enforce it on you. They shouldn't. And there's nothing wrong with discussing real life (e.g., abusive relationships, sexual identity, gossip, self-loathing, feelings of bitterness and hopelessness) because isn't that what friendship is about? Not having to go through life and these moods alone? Women like talking about these things with other women because the opposite gender will not understand these better than a woman does. It's kind of close-minded that you write-off these women as simply boring and tiresome for not being as critical as you. Getting by is hard enough in the third world. Having dreams, ambitions, a career you're passionate about, and even a proper education are for the really privileged. Indulging in interests and hobbies are for those who can afford not to work all the time in order to survive. You can't just automatically expect women in the third world to be woke, lead a meaningful life according to your standards, and be introspective about patriarchy and other complex topics. A lot of the women around me don't even know that patriarchy is what's making them do their makeup in the morning and dress sexy outside. They just do it because it's what cool and pretty girls do. To them, it's just deep conditioning.
I like some of your points about lookism and feminism but I feel like you can look at these situations with a more mature and understanding lens. You don't have to insult and shut down women to make your points. You won't have a fruitful discussion that way.
Yeah I know how hard it can be to find female friends that you can talk about other things with. But not to the same extent as you, the women around me still talk about things that have nothing to do with males, even if our interests don't always align. Maybe you were just unlucky to live in a place where most of the women talk about those things.>>76112>Lolcow is a terrible place. All they do is tear women down.
Visit the off-topic boards instead. And you wouldn't be the only one on lc who criticizes other users for nitpicking other women's appearances. There's a visible difference between the people who frequent the off-topic boards and those who frequent the drama boards. It might not seem like it, but lc users have different opinions about these things, and you'll find both people who agree and who disagree with you.
I respect fashion and beauty as an interest, even if I don't have an interest in it. I think it's great! But the women I surround myself with are concerned with fashion/beauty for the objectively wrong reasons (scrotes.) I've met women who aren't like this, but most women around me are this way. Especially after 14-15, the brain rot gets to them.
On the second part of the post. When I wrote it, I was emotionally distressed, and I can see now how my post comes across. I don't blame women for following the “rules of the game”, so to speak. Femininity is dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. I understand that. BUT it's hard for me to relate to a great majority of the women who surround me, and I think I'm rightfully upset with them for hurting my feelings.>I let my friends talk about fashion and makeup because it seems like they spend a lot of time learning about those just like how I learn about my own interests.
This has not been my experience. When my family and friends talk about make-up to me, it's not an interest or something that brings them joy, it's a need. They always seem distressed, upset. For example, “I want to die, I look SO ugly without make up, I look dead!” They never seem joyful, and that's where my problem begins. I love hearing about my friend's interests that I don't share, as long as I can see them happy. Sadly, a lot of these interests are pushed to the background because they internalize that they're boring or don't matter.> And there's nothing wrong with discussing real life (e.g., abusive relationships, sexual identity, gossip, self-loathing, feelings of bitterness and hopelessness) because isn't that what friendship is about?
I understand why women talk about this, but they should also understand when enough is enough. I'm not a therapist, I have issues of my own. My sister has a really abusive boyfriend, who will come to our house and demand to see her, who will hit her, who calls her at any goddamn hour, who buys her crazy expensive gifts, who vandalizes her property. And she keeps going back, over and over again. Yes, I feel for her, I'm worried about her, but she's hurting my family in the process. We're always worried about her and our safety. I can't cope with that on my own. I'm sorry for being a bad sister, but it makes me feel awful, and I can't do better. I can't stand it anymore.>You can't just automatically expect women in the third world to be woke, lead a meaningful life according to your standards, and be introspective about patriarchy and other complex topics.
I can because I go to a private uni and all the women surrounding me have college degrees and are educated. No one around me is poor or struggling money wise.>I like some of your points about lookism and feminism but I feel like you can look at these situations with a more mature and understanding lens. You don't have to insult and shut down women to make your points. You won't have a fruitful discussion that way.
I can see that. I just made my post when I was mad. If I were to write it again, I'd do a better job.>>76122
I've been to the oot boards, but I still dislike the culture in general. It's just Not Nice.
OP again, and please remember that this is a vent board, and I'm venting. This is not an attack on you or anyone. It's just my feelings, not a feminist manifesto or a social commentary. Don't take it to heart or be an ass. No women have been hurt in the making of this thread.
I feel like you have a point. Even though I have a couple of female friends I can talk to about my interests without the relationships or stupid fashion shit, it feels like there's no one to talk to about anything meaningful. There are barely any women that share my interests, and talking to men always devolves into them asking me for sexual offers or trying to be flirty. I'm trying to ditch talking to normie women except coworkers, family, etc.
Maybe you could try befriending lesbians if that's possible.
Unless your country is a super religious one.
Just wanted to say that I found your post very interesting although sad and I'm sorry that it was misunderstood because the context here was very important. Some posters seem to interpret it in a very ethnocentric way but what you describe is totally believable in countries where social pressure and patriarchy is so hard on women that it shapes their entire lives.
I have no advice to give you but surely there are other women where you live that feel like you do, share the same interests and have the same struggles or atleast are open enough to hear you out. The people you described don't really seem like your friends and I hope you'll find someone with whom you share more in common.
I actually really agree with this most of the time op, but it hasn't been my experience most of the time either. I tend to just isolate now because it's exactly like you say. The self loathing and psycho social female on female nagging and abuse is everywhere. Then again I had some friends who don't and didn't but these are extremely extremely Rare. I want to run an experimental board for women, where you can only go to talk about positive things, games, strategy, creativity…anything that isn't men, beauty or self loathing because it absolutely ruins things for me. I'm sick to death of the self imposed hatred on this board ngl. It's the reason I mostly left.
Lol TO WHERE I have the same problem she has.
I'm tired of this type. Maybe i just live to make them rage by taking on none of their completely avoidable problems. Tears like that are wine to me.
The honest truth is they're fragile and sheltered to death though. They need their comfort zone because they never had anything bad enough happen to force them out of it. I don't think it's an internal equalizer, to play it safe.
They can moralize at me all they want, but I know they live to have like 20 sticks up their asses, at any given time too. All because they lived to hate out of a comfort zone, they don't know how to leave. Well my hate isn't going anywhere either lol. Until they prove me wrong. I always enjoy a person who proves me wrong !
Mostly the reality is they missed the chance to stop living like cowards
College. The femcels are the nerds that were too good for the guys at school. There were some airhead femcels of the sort that OP mentioned that couldn’t hold down a relationship, but I didn’t talk to them. The tradwives (in training at the time) were too busy hanging out with their bfs to care about female drama. So I found them tolerable, but who knows how much I’ll get to hang out in the future as they are married and preggo now.
I don't know where to meet lesbians. How can I even identify one?>>76129
Thank you, anon. A lot of western anons struggle empathizing with us. Our cultures are different, and they always deny our realities. I don't blame them, I also have no idea what it is like in the west.>>76133
I love that idea. Please do! We need a safe space for women. If society tells us we're self-loathing and shallow, then we will become that from all the reinforcement. We need a break.
Oh yeah, women everywhere are super critical of themselves and never criticize men, and consider that feminist. That's a good one. Got any more gems?
Read the whole thread retard
Police not invented in your country yet?
>>76086>I want to discuss my hobbies and the things I learn and the things that shape my world, and yet all of it gets derailed and frowned upon.
Okay, so what is your hobby? You can't say all this and not clarify what hobbies you're talking about, dear.
As other anons have said, lots of places that are neutral grounds work fine for discussing hobbies, since they're usually faster flowing for conversations. We even have /hb/ here, even though it's slow as molasses. I'm trying to wrap my head around what the issue is specifically.
Sometimes it's better to just focus on the positives than dwell on the negatives, but that's a hard lesson for everyone to swallow. You do get a better reaction that way, though, I've found.
i feel like we're all broken down, we all had hobbies and aspirations that weren't nurtured. blah blah blah i want to get out of this cycle too and do what i want but the programming is way too deep
And they're mostly dead. I'm not OP but I agree with her.
But this honestly is probably just a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Women with strong interests that are not moid or victimhood related are more likely to assume other women aren't interested and go discuss them in mixed-sex or even male spaces. We need to make a conscious effort to keep these threads alive if we want them to thrive.
I am myself guilty of doing this, it's just discouraging when you put effort into a post and get little to no replies.
Is it ultimately critical to share interest with others? Is it not a mater of personal fulfillment or enjoyment?
For most people, sharing impressions with people with similar interests is part of the personal fulfillment and enjoyment.
Even if that were true, the same could be said for fashion, gossip or whatever other stereotypically "girly" interests OP mentioned - why would these women feel the need to talk about fashion with others? Obviously, people enjoy talking about what interests them.
Do you believe it be would a negative share interest in a mixed sex or male orient setting if not other option was viable? Would doing so diminish potential fulfillment or enjoyment?
Sorry, for clarity since i shitted that up, do you believe it would be a negative thing to share interest in a mixed sex or male orient setting if not other option was viable? Would doing so diminish potential fulfillment or enjoyment?
Nona, I don't want to seem offending, but I think you just need one single anti-capitalist good friend to talk to IRL so that your subtle internalized misogyny goes away on its own, as your post reeks of that.
I was like you as well, but then I realized, after looking hard enough, other women, most likely, think the same as I do deep down, but are unable to speak out out of fear of moid harassment and "fellow" women bullying me for not wearing makeup.
Perhaps you should join a radical feminism group in your country ANONYMOUSLY that specifically despises makeup and the social aspect of beauty, consumerism, etc.; THERE HAS TO BE AT LEAST ONE
, unless you live in Turkmenistan of sorts.
If you cannot, then you could join a women's far-left political party, at the cost of them not being feminist enough given the probable moids at the top of the organization.
I too despise makeup on the grounds of contamination and the future blaming of women for us using makeup, as forced by men. As well as the false, anti-intellectual feminism of our era which condones us to not invest in women (LMAO
But we're close to alone on this, sadly. And it doesn't help that the small but important businesses that women own are related to women's interests like makeup either.
James Sant (1820–1…
p.s. I forgot to mention that, if you really find an anti-makeup woman in your country, you will also get the things that you wanted in your post OP, like not centering one's lives on men, gossip and tearing (women) each other down, knowing the reality of impossible beauty standards, etc.
p.p.s. also, the "women must support each other" is the right way to think if you want a better quality of life for women in your country. But I guess your country must be that bad
if not even "best friends" support one another unconditionally
so did you join a cult because you were too stupid to separate parts of things you dont like out alone, or because you enjoy the high of being a political underdog
Absolutely, since male-dominated spaces tend to contain men who despise women and make their life hell. All sorts of nuisances come with discussing things with males. To start with, if you share their interests they tend to feel entitled to romantic feelings from you. Any response to these unwanted feelings will result in drama and the destruction of whichever enjoyable environment existed before in the group. Moids on 4chan complain about this all the time, they just fail to realize it's their own fault. In the unlikely case that this doesn't happen, they'll just invalidate your interest or put you through constant shit-tests.
How is radical feminism cult??
Sorry, I had a gut reaction to reading your posts because it's pretty much identical to how political cults recruit.
I'm that anon, I only have one IRL friend who is an anti-capitalist(-ish) feminist, so there is no way I am some cultist weirdo when I can only have one friend, lol.
What I wanted to emphasize in my post is to find just one friend who shares the closest thing to your political view, not to join a political party/group long-term per se; they can't even get elected in a local election, so there is no benefit outside of making a friend and then getting out of there.
Should've specified further and written my post better, apologies!