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Can autistic people manipulate? or should I say, autistic moids? Anonymous 77489

I will preface this thread by saying that I am not autistic (at least not that I know of, I never have had a psychological assessment done to me in my life so I do not know if I'm neurotypical or not). From what I understand, autism has one caracteristic which is a lack of theory of the mind (I am aware that basing the whole definition of autism on this is very carricatural and incorrect). I also want to preface that I personally do not think that all autists lack empathy, I think it is harmful to the discussion to think only this. When I mention theory of mind, by that I mean something more like "Autistic people cannot lie", "Autistic people cannot recognise a lie", "Autistic people do not understand irony or sarcasm" (although as I have said before, it is incredibly caricatural, and I'd even go as far and say that it is quite infantilising on my part.)
The reasons I am explaining this (or at least how I have viewed autism up to this point) is because I need some insight on a situation I have been through, and I hope some autistic anons could maybe help me understand a bit better: did I have the wrong assumptions to begin with? was I the asshole from the start?

I will explain now. I became friends with a moid (I believe that him being a moid definitely impacted the situation). This moid has confided in me that he was autistic, I did not see it as a problem as I have talked to autistic people before and have had autistic friends (all female). I remember when he told me about his autism it was incredibly hard for him to accept this part of his diagnosis and I tried to tell him that it is okay and that he wasn't any less "normal" to other people and that my feelings of friendships will not change towards him simply because I learned he was autistic. (I do have to say, "friendships" with moids lol).
The reason we were friends was because we shared a common interest, which involved creativity and lots and lots of work. We were both involved in a project together and I enjoyed working with him, we have created a lot of things together and it was very fun. He did always try to claim that it was all "his" stuff but I did not mind at the time because I was too caught up in having fun creating. The friendship was bumpy though, he talked to me everyday and it did end up being exhausting for me. He forced me to voice call him everyday, and when I told him I did not want to, he said he needed it because he is autistic and that it is was part of his routine (and if you distrupt the routine of an autistic person it can make them extremely anxious and even give them panic attacks). And I did not want to cause him pain so I forced myself to carry on and keeping on interacting with him (maybe I should have standed up for myself a little? but he kept blaming everything on his autism…). One day I had to go on vacation, and I couldn't always be available to keep participating in the project. I remember he demanded me to keep creating, and I ended up promising him I will do "one creation a day" so that he wouldn't get angry or something like that. So I took time out of my vacations to keep doing these for him. I feel a bit stupid about this now to be honest. He also wanted to keep voice chatting with me, even when other people were present in my room, he kept insisting and I told him I simply can't but he would keep on insisting. He knew my sleeping pattern. He would text me exactly around when I would wake up. Sometimes I told him I went to sleep earlier so that I could have the night for myself which made me wake up later in the morning. He'd pick up on that and ask me if I lied about going to sleep early. He kept demanding me to do things. When I had enough I straight up told him I want to stop and that it isn't fun anymore, etc etc. He'd use very sad discord emojis and start blaming himself. This made me feel so guilty for even speaking up. I know he was trying to guilt trip me but he kept saying he was autistic and that he did not understand. I really believed this guy wouldn't hurt me, because I genuinely thought he simply did not realise he was being toxic because of his autism. I have completely cut contacts with him thankfully. Another thing about this man, that I should have prefaced again is that he has been pretending to be female to get closer to women (and still does to this day). He even has a female voice actress for him so that he can fool more people. I'm just too sad and exhausted. He tries so hard to get pity points. For example: I have a friend that vented to him about a situation she has. And a few days later he'd start telling everyone that he has a situation that is oddly similar to my friend's to gain pity points. He tries so hard to be a "not like the other guys". He is like a typical male feminist, and says that "at least I do not hate women" or "all my friends are female" which is tiring and disgusting because he himself pretends to be female to others. But as I said, I have cut ties with this guy completely, so did my friend. We have also told some other people about him pretending to be female in hopes others will start to be cautious too and that the word will spread among the community. At least so that it becomes a rumor or something…
I also want to say. This man has a following, he has a fandom (almost). If I would reveal who he is he would know who made the post. He has used me to get himself a following. A lot of the things he has posted were created by me (by his request, but still). I never wanted to be credited honestly since I always wanted to stay anonymous but seeing him gain popularity on things which were basically made by me, or my ideas or stuff like that sort of makes me a bit frustrated and angry. At the begining of the project we were BOTH anonymous, this is also why I never wanted a credit. But then for some reason he started to want to "own' everything so now everything done by me is technically his now. Sometimes I am credited and sometimes I am not, he simply claims stuff as his. Thankfully not all of his posts are my things (or things of mine he has recycled) but he has still used it to push himself to somewhat of a level of popularity. Do I even have the rights to complain? No only does he use my work to get popular, he pretty much used the work of some other artist, I tried really hard to convince him to credit the artist (and he did thankfully even though he now burried the credit on some other website and not on his main page) + now he has tweaked the art a little bit and considers it to "not be the artists art anymore because the lineart does not fully align anymore" even though it still obviously fucking is. I wish I could show you exactly what I'm talking about but I can't without him knowing who this post comes from.

Considering how much he blamed his toxicity on autism. It makes me wonder: can autistic people manipulate? No actually; can autistic moids manipulate? is he manipulative because he is a moid? can autistic women be manipulative too? is his toxicity simply toxic masculinity? or honestly… is he even autistic to begin with?! I'm sorry for this long ass post.

Anonymous 77493

Take a step back from him being an autistic moid and look solely at his behavior. If you would call it manipulative for any other person, it is manipulative for him too.

Anonymous 77499

Yes. This is exactly what I did when I cut contact with him. I'm just angry because I feel like I wasted so much time on him (I mean I did, let's be frank). I just hate how he kept blaming everything on his autism to get away with bad behavior. I really hate it and now I have this built up frustration and I don't really know who I can talk to about it (other than the people that were involved in this too who themselves are as frustrated as me and probably do not want to hear more about it).

Anonymous 77538

>I remember when he told me about his autism it was incredibly hard for him to accept this part of his diagnosis
>He forced me to voice call him everyday, and when I told him I did not want to, he said he needed it because he is autistic and that it is was part of his routine
Im pretty sure that autists are capable of manipulating others, i do feel that in his case though he was reaching to get an autism diagnosis and he’s not really ashamed of it at all. Otherwise why suddenly that you were made aware of his autism you have to be part of a routine now?

Anonymous 77540

Autistic people can manipulate , especially the ones who blame stuff on their autism all the time (Red flag). idk if him being a moid has a direct impact on this but autistic moids are usually terrible to be around so it might be. girl you need to ditch him ASAP.

>he has been pretending to be female to get closer to women (and still does to this day). He even has a female voice actress for him so that he can fool more people.

hm ma'am this is manipulation, and a disgusting one at that.

Anonymous 77677

Sounds like a narc, nonie. Autists can be narcs, so yes they can be manipulative. Narcissism can also be misdiagnosed as autism.
It's indeed not true we lack a theory of mind, we're just slow learners but most of us can and want to learn if we're not self-centered. We tend to be naive and thus prone to believing lies but we can compensate with experience.
Being manipulative isn't even a difficult skill though, all it requires is lacking a conscience and the propensity to get off from it.

I was involved with an autistic narc so I know what a nightmare they are, especially when they pretend not to understand and continue to be complete asswipes after you've explained everything to them.
When you started talking to him, he probably wasn't that demanding. That's proof he knew it wasn't appropriate and waited until he'd guilt tripped you enough to make you stay. I'm not the kind of sperg who has routines but I've never heard of a routine that involves talking to someone everyday, it's usually something that doesn't require anyone to self-regulate. He might be using autism just like he uses feminism for clout.
Autism is not an excuse for being dismissive and monopolizing you, don't doubt for a second that this guy was knowingly exploiting you and doing everything to gain power over you.
Watch videos about narcissism and maybe read "Why does he do that" to help you understand the dynamics of abuse so you're prepared next time. Congrats for getting out.

Anonymous 77745

Thank you for your input, it does make a lot of sense. Especially when I look back at his behavior.
The reason I kept obsessing over the whole "but he is autistic" thing is also because his whole PERSONA is based on autism. He talks about autism non-stop, i'd say he has an autistic hyperfixation on autism.

Anonymous 77778

Yeah that's a pretty common narcissistic trait for attention seeking and to seem 'unique.' Like people telling others about their 'rare disease', veganism, mental issues, anything like that.

Anonymous 78370

absolutely out this fucker. you say he has a following? let all of his fans know what kind of a person he is.

Anonymous 78377

Been thinking of doing it. I already have a side project that has shown his fans some of his bad behavior that sort of damaged his reputation.

Anonymous 78495

Hello! I'm an autist so I thought I'd give some input.
>lack of theory of the mind
To my knowledge this is more of an assumption related to low-functioning autistics who can't interface socially. I've heard it theorized that high-functioning autistic people are brute-forcing a theory of the mind 'system' which is what allows socialization, but I'm p sure that's speculative.

The way I'd personally describe autism is that we occupy a different modality of thought than what's being expected of us. Like if the common mode is monkey-mind I might be a cow-mind or wolf-mind. Some social animal but not the one you're expecting to interact with. The way we interpret social/sensory stimuli is different and so the lingua franca of human experience doesn't totally mesh, which can cause a breakdown in top-level communication.

>"Autistic people cannot recognize a lie", "Autistic people do not understand irony or sarcasm"

Personally I can recognize malicious duplicity with stupid ease, to the point that it weirds people out (people's breathing and posture get funny when they're lying… also their smell. I don't make a habit of sniffing people but I guess they get sweaty or something?). Sarcasm and jokes, however, I can never pick out from tone alone. I sorta get it from context clues. Not sure where irony comes from since that's more of a literary thing.

>He did always try to claim that it was all "his" stuff

Out of everything in this post, this is most characteristic of a ritual. Some things get set in your mind and they have to be done that way or it's not comfy. E.g. if anybody so much as nudges my silverware whether dirty/clean I'm just going to entirely replace it because it wouldn't feel right even having it in my house.

>he said he needed it because he is autistic and that it is was part of his routine

Well, everyone's different so I don't want to talk in absolutes. But I've literally not once heard of a ritual that was predicated specifically on socialization. Autism is usually a lot of the opposite. This sounds more like he's just a lonely nerd that wants attention.

>He knew my sleeping pattern. He would text me exactly around when I would wake up.

Ok that's creepy. The second part, I accidentally learn everybody's routines too but I don't go out of my way to bother them as soon as they wake up.

>he kept saying he was autistic and that he did not understand

Yeah no. High functioning autistics will understand the concept of guilt and manipulation tactics just fine, doubly so if you explain your emotional state in plain speech. Autism could make it near impossible to read emotion & social context, but you can still recognize emotion in yourself just fine. Also if you genuinely were disrupting a ritual or something, he would not be sad. He would be some varying degree of angry. Breaking rituals doesn't feel like an anxiety attack (I've had those too, before), it feels like being emotionally violated. Like the feeling you'd get if somebody broke into your bedroom or read your mind. It can vary in intensity & you can learn to manage it but it's more of irrational anger/harrowing type of feeling than anything approaching sadness or self-pity.

>He even has a female voice actress for him so that he can fool more people.


>can autistic moids manipulate?

>can autistic people manipulate?
>can autistic women be manipulative too?
Yep. Yes on all counts. Super easy too. Just because you can't necessarily read people doesn't mean you're bad at strategy. Personally I find it kind of necessary in a professional sense because if I don't manipulate people into liking me I'd never progress in my career. Being liked is unfortunately the only way to get ahead and being autistic often makes one generally unlikeable. Pretty scummy to do it to your friends though.

>is he manipulative because he is a moid?

He's probably manipulative because he's maladjusted and never learned healthy social patterns. Possibly because nobody wanted to be his friend growing up. Too late for that now, though. That's the sort of thing you gotta work out in therapy.

>is his toxicity simply toxic masculinity?

Nah, I mean if you ask the dumbasses on twitter anything a man does that's toxic is toxic masculinity. In reality toxic masculinity is more founded on an overreliance on ego and combative social patterns to actualize self-worth, which is pretty precarious. This is sorta the exact opposite: using insecurity and open vulnerability to manipulate and force social security. It's practically the least masculine thing one could do, and it's the sort of thing you see a lot in male children with absentee father figures. Kid needs therapy.

>is he even autistic to begin with?!

Yeah probably not. I tend to take people at face value on that, but this sounds a lot more like an awkward lonely guy ~maybe~ somewhere on the spectrum realizing he can leverage his mental problems to his advantage. It's depressingly common nowadays & I put up a strong guard against anybody who wears their trauma / illness on their sleeve now.

Ok but no really
>he has been pretending to be female to get closer to women
This is somewhat common due to how fetishized women are online / media. Especially with incel-type guys getting the attention associated is going to be appealing. It's pretty gross but not immediately alarming to me, right?
>He even has a female voice actress for him so that he can fool more people
That. That is alarming. That's not just passive manipulation that's borderline predatory. Like the difference between not bothering to return something you forgot to check-out and hiding stuff under your clothes. They're both stealing but one requires concerted effort. It's weird, please out him for that at least.

Anonymous 78510

Thank you very much for all this insight. I am already discussing with my friend on how I can out this guy in a way that makes it as visible as possible. Thing is, he is now playing the tranny card to get away with male accusations so I might have to find out instances where he'd act transphobic.

Anonymous 78672

>the tranny card
Of course he would. This is bad news, anon. I don't know in which niche your art is inserted but in many of these artistic circled an accusation of transphobia is all it takes to tarnish your entire reputation forever. His own past transphobic offenses will be forgiven as "internalized" something. You don't have much wiggle room here, unfortunately.
I'd focus on his stolen art and lack of crediting. Unfortunately this is common with troon artists, using women artists as literal human masks.

Anonymous 78690

The callout posts have been made. It's been for a bit more than 24 hours. I just hope it works because he clearly does not deserve the recognition he has. Riding everything off of uncreative stuff most of which he hasn't even created himself, not even being an artist (but letting other claim he is, I do not see the credit to the original artist anymore on his page) and lying about his identity to women to appear more approchable… ugh.. i'm tired.

Anonymous 78791

the callout posts are not working because he is trying to burry it by posting new content with the hashtags, so i will just post them here out of desperation
i hope the transphobic shit is gonna help people realise he is a man and stop giving him excuses just cuz he's now a tranny
Ik anons on crystal.cafe probably won't care but here it is anyway

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