/b/ - Random

>>263971
Born with in the case of exclusive homosexuals. Other things are less studied but there's plenty of evidence that exclusive homosexuality is innate.

i think sexuality is fluid and can change as someone grows up or goes on differant stages of their life, in case of whether or not it can be influenced by outside forces, again, it changes from person to person but i think most people are influenced by outside sources more

>>263971
i think the majority of people are bisexual without realizing it

>>263971
Sexuality is just a variant of taste. Everything influences it. In the end, it's still a choice to act on it or not.

>>263996
where is this from?

Born with probably but the very fact that faggot communities exist and are known for pressuring people within them to behave certain ways still means gays should be treated as though they chose it.

>>263999
Mysterious Girlfriend X

I believe it is something you're born with. Look at all straight women on this site wanting to become lesbian to escape men. Look how they fail at it, because they can't develop actual sexual attraction to women. They still choose men despite knowing how shitty they are and there's nothing they can change about it.

Probably it's appropriate to post here about it, but straight women on this site, who dislike lesbians and try to convince them that their orientation can be changed and they can be learned to love dick, confuse me. Why the fuck would you make shitton of "men bad" posts and be angry when someone isn't attracted to them? Those women aren't a huge part of demographics, but I still wonder why they think like that

>>264010
>>264011
Conflicting opinions going on here. Do straight women here hate lesbians or want to become lesbians?

>>264013
I didn't mean that all straight women are x, they have different opinions
>>264017
I sometimes saw women saying "dykes bad" here, but they aren't very common. Their logic is still weird

>>264013
>Do straight women here hate lesbians or want to become lesbians?
They have lack of penis envy envy.

>>263971
I think it's something people are born with, and it's especially obvious with trannies (sorry for the cringe example). If you look into Blanchard's typology there are glaring differences between straight and gay trannies from a young age.

>>264029
Same applies to straight vs. gay people who are not trannies.

i can honestly say that i was not bisexual before 25 and that i am bi now. i was aware of being attracted to the opposite sex from a very early age and was open to the idea of being attracted to the same sex but never found it happening. i did have a very serious head injury, though, so i'm not a typical case. also, not to derail the thread but is anyone looking foward to the new snuffkin video game?

I think people are born with it.
Coming from someone who has always been bisexual and has tried to force myself to be either het or gay. There are also definitely people who have no homosexual or heterosexual tendencies either way.
The only people who can be "influenced" are latent bisexuals who lean a certain way. Bisexual is also a very wide range of experiences, from women who love men but also realize they want to suck on boobs in their fantasies to Febfems who only like 2D men. People are just ashamed to be bisexual and it's lame. It's not prescriptive, it's descriptive.

>>264076
when you say "always been bisexual" how far back are you talking? did you have crushes on both genders back in elementary?

>>264076
i want to suck on tits but i don't want to get into a relationship with a woman. i feel like i give bisexuals a bad name so i just don't talk about it

>>264124
Same. I've never felt "bi" enough to use the label outside of my head. If I were more outgoing I absolutely would have been a LUG.

sometimes i wonder if i was exposed to content that sexualized women at a young age and incorporated it into my sexuality, or if i was sa'd, because i think my thoughts developed too early to be natural (homosexual or not), but at the same times i have some evidence to believe i was exposed to higher testosterone levels while i was in the womb
>>264011
why do you think it's the same people posting those things

>>264124
>>264126
I like my tits being sucked on. Should we create a mutualistic commune?

>>264093
Yep! I for sure had a crush on a girl in second grade and on a boy in third grade, then many more every year since. It was innocent for both of course, just thinking of them so much and getting butterflies. And both genders for fictional character crushes. When puberty hit (11-12) my early sexual interests were in both as well.
>>264124
I understand the reasoning behind that. We already have the worst name though kek.
>>264171
>i wonder if i was exposed to content that sexualized women at a young age and incorporated it into my sexuality
Considered this for myself, but so is everyone else and yet straight women still exist.

>>264171
Do you have an enlarged clitoris?

I googled if gay blind people exist the other day and someone said that they were turned on by the same sex and not the opposite despite no vision. To them, it was innate.

>>264360
Tbh men's voices are hot to me so I wouldnt need vision to be attracted to men either

>>264017
The thread on /feels/ that will not fall has a lot of posts like that.

If sexuality is something people are born with, then prison gay won't be a thing. There's a concept called autoeroticism which has nothing to do with anyone that exists outside the person that's experiencing sexual arousal, and this is probably the "reason" why porn, sex dolls, fantasies, pedophilia, necrophilia, [maybe homosexuality too] etc. exist. Some people just see other people as objects of sexual release, and it doesn't really matter whether the person is interested or is even alive to receive that. Some moids are so sexually frustrated that they'll settle for trannies. Some people are purely autoerotic, like psychopaths and narcissists.

Also, this article talks about how homosexuality evolved because of social reasons and not because of reproductive necessity, which is what the Christians and other important puritan religions believe in the past.
https://theconversation.com/homosexuality-may-have-evolved-for-social-not-sexual-reasons-128123

>>264362

>[maybe homosexuality too]

No. Your comment is disgusting.

>>264366
A lot of straight people were molested as well and remained straight, so that's not really a cause.
And prison gay is domination thing, not sexual. Men just degrade other men and put them in their place by fucking them, not because they are actually attracted to them

>>264365
I did not mean to be an expert or anything, and this is just one explanation out there that explains homosexuality and it's not THE explanation. Some people in the past have presented the theory that homosexuality is a perversion [Lacan and of course Fr*ud]. Nobody can explain anything about homosexuality right now, except for the fact that it exists, and it has somehow increased statistically, either because it actually increased or it's because the society presently enables coming out.

I'm sorry if I offended you, nona.

>>264366
Traumatic experiences most often makes someone sex-repulsed I think, and I also don't believe that abused people abuse. I don't know, maybe it's true that they do abuse, but I think it's more complicated that one can tell.

This is just my personal experience but I consider myself straight and I feel attracted to authoritative women for some reason. I don't want to do sexual stuff, but I wouldn't mind being in love with them. It's a mess, actually. I just think it's stupid to try to narrow down human sexuality into binary systems - nurture vs. nature.

>>264376
That's what I meant by autoeroticism btw. They are aroused but it has to do with them and their feelings of being in power and control. That's also why rape is about power and not sexuality.

>>264521
>I feel like there's other ways to assert dominance without having to literally rape another man.
True, but rape is most degrading among them, because men are being penetrated like a woman, a lower creature. That's it. Rape emasculates men, that's why ut is so degrading for them

>>264524
I personally think, that vast majority of males are actually bi, because they don't really care in which hole they would stick their dick. Look at all "straight" dudes jerking off to trannies, futas, femboys, traps and other not very female creatures. It's just easier to shag a woman in real life than a tranny, that's why they choose women.

>>264532
>It's just easier to shag a woman in real life than a tranny, that's why they choose women.
I (different anon) was with you until then. Trannies are still men and thus as easy as men to get into bed. I too think that most men are repressed bisexuals but think they're still aware that sex with a tranny is gay too. I think most men that accept that they would be willing to sleep with a tranny can probably accept that they would be willing to sleep with a regular man. I think "chasers", men with a strong preference for trannies, are probably actually fully gay, not bi, and grasping at straws.

I had once read that the psychological damage of rape does not occur in a man unless he has a prostate orgasm. I do not know where I read that. It might have even been a slashfic… uhm. It could be bullshit but I believe it. Having to reconcile with his male anatomy being "into it" even while his male strength failed him, and while being put to perverse use by another man. Being "like a woman" would be self alienation since his orgasm would be a decidedly male orgasm from his decidedly male prostate organ through his decidedly male penis, ejecting decidedly male sperm in a decidedly male single orgasm with male refractory period afterwards. It would be a kind of psychosis to equate being raped as a man by another man to being made into a woman.

I once tried to find academic and scientific studies on whether or not being raped by a woman does significant psychological harm to an adult man and all I found was that maternal incest does more harm and leads to worse life outcomes when it is consentual on the man's part than when it was nonconsentual on his part, which is interesting but doesn't really mean much. But to the extent that it means anything it could sort of indicate that the answer is no, rape as forced sex and even forced orgasm doesn't do psychological harm unless it involves being penetrated and maybe prostate orgasm.

I knew I liked women when I was like 2 or 3. I just didn't understand or know what to do with that kind of information.

both

aren't we all born a little gay?

>>268874
Not me

>>268875
You were born BIG GAY?

>>268880
I’m 100% str8 i love man chest man butt man arms man cock

>>268882
okay nona but I know a moid who said the exact same "100% straight" thing and 5 years later he's bi but hopefully you'll stay 100% str8 forever

I've read about gay moids taking something like some hormone shit something something and turning straight

>>268890
conversion therapy?

If love is an action sexuality is too

I think that sexual orientation is fixed and something you are born with, but sexual preference can be influenced by social factors (like a lesbian can only ever love women, but can develop a preference for butches. And bi people can have their sex preferences for partners change).

No one is born gay, it's just not natural. They are all groomed in one way or another.

>>269162
But humans do a lot of unnatural things, nona. Also, who groomed the first gays then?

>>269162
Lesbians are 1500% natural.

>>269162
I think genital attraction is indicative of sexual orientation, which is biological. Everything else is social conditioning. For example, a woman who likes boobs but not pussy is straight.

>>269162
I always suspect that the people who say things like this are bi or have to fight off gay thoughts. Wouldn't that mean you choose to be straight as well?

>>264362
>If sexuality is something people are born with, then prison gay won't be a thing
Those men are only fucking each other because a mouth/ass feels better than their hand. They aren't really attracted to each other and they go back to women the second they're out of jail

A law enforcement officer once told me that prison gay is a lot less common than anyone assumes and prison rape is basically nonexistent, and the real sodomy in prison is mostly guards (his fellow LEOs, a statement against interest) raping the inmates, or granting a gay inmate unmonitored access to a physically weaker inmate due to gay ingroup bias or possibly mutual sexual favors. Because if you're hard gay but go into policing that's the bucket you usually end up in. I'm not sure how to even look for stats to back that up. It's not like the US DOJ makes sure to dust for gay particles at the site of every prison crime.

>>269245
They always say that. The truth is it completely depends on the prison.

it's definitely innate or else there would have been no recorded homosexual activity prior to the modern age, i myself tried to repress being bi for ages as "there are loads of bi girls its statistically impossible for us all to be genuine bisexuals"

>>269256
This. I'm bi but I've always wished I was just an actual lesbian. I've tried dating women and it just seems so much harder because men seem to actively pursue me more. With women things either fizzle out quickly or worse, entire years long friendships end bc the girl wanted to "experiment" and then decides she's actually straight and for some reason that always means they have to "break up" with me and its literally like, it was your goddammned idea, I only ever had platonic feelings with you, and if a single other female friend ever asks me to let her experiment with me as a favor I'm going to tell her to fuck off, if you were genuinely attracted to the same sex, you would have known for a very long time. I literally just always knew I was bi, even in elementary before I experienced sexual feelings I knew somehow, idek how I knew I just did. I'd rather be full gay or full straight, there's too much bs to navigate

It can definitely be influenced by outside factors but not by that much. No one goes from a Kinsey 0 to a 6 just because they watched Kim Possible, that’s retarded. But a 1 to a 3 or a 5 to a 4 is definitely possible in an entire lifetime…
I do think childhood life experiences (especially trauma) can shape sexuality as much as it can shape any other aspect of a person’s personality. It doesn’t mean it can be changed directly or that it’s not valid, but I’ve never believed it’s something that people are just born with and then it never changes.

It’s mostly innate, but partially social, given what we know from twin studies and hormonal levels and such.

Anyways, I really hate homophobic women, even more than homophobic men. Something about it pisses me off. I mean, the fucking audacity to sit there as a straight woman and pretend like there’s something wrong with gay men. You like dick too, retard.

>>269357
>even more than homophobic men
That's your inner handmaiden speaking

>>269357
>you have to like faggots who do poopsex and act flamboyant with their nasally caricature of women voices.
yeah no sorry

Probably something to do with micro plastics and meat growth hormones

>>269357
Gay men put it in pooper and and have sex in public. Lesbians are cool though.

>>269372
>>269375
Just pathetic little cretins.

>>264076
>People are just ashamed to be bisexual and it's lame
I've never understood it. Bisexuals have huge support from society, most people think like nona that most people are bisexual without realizing it (again, HOW if sexual and romantic attraction is obvious)? I often see statements that women are bisexual and men are either gay or straight. Lesbians and heterosexuals (to a lesser extent) are constantly being gaslighting, although sexual fluidity has not been fully studied and not all people in studies have changed their orientation. What do bisexuals suffer from? Is it possible to call "I don't want to date bi" systemic discrimination when "all bi people" are from bisexuals EVERYWHERE.
More than anything, I want to become bisexual so that I can say women "you're bisexual, but because of biphobia you can't admit it."
>>263996

>>264362
The idea that women do not perceive a woman as a subject when they are aroused by her is strange and smacks of Freudianism. Freud said that in the process of age stages, women should move into an object position.There are a lot of women who are not satisfied with their body, but they are excited about other women.

>>269174
why?

>>263971
I would have sex with a man but I would never love them like I would love a woman, but this is just me speaking out of "I want to fuck"
I love woman, I love the way they talk, to kiss them.. etc.
does that make me bi?

Born with if you're gay, asexuality is almost never without trauma or mental illness (myself included)

>>263971
it's a reaction to sexual abuse. Either direct, or indirect such as grooming and viewing porn as a child.

>>269361
This

The real pinkpill is figuring out that gay men are as bad as straight men. Just because they aren’t sexually attracted to us doesn’t mean they don’t view us as commodities…

One of the worst minefields that keeps ending discussion of this topic is thee reality that men's sexuality does not in any way mirror or complement women's. And this is definitive based on mountains upon mountains of objective physical evidence, such as Dr. Meredith Chivers' life's work.

Chivers in particular became virtually unpersoned in academia due to her research having found that MtF transsexuals have a male sexual response pattern and not a female sexuality. Being academically unpersoned also means her research does not reach people who do not share the academically / financially expedient opinions that caused said unpersoning.

There is a deeply socially entrenched idea that if most women are attracted to or have the ability to be attracted to other women then most men should have the same sexual response to other men, and that if men are exclusively into women then women should be exclusively into men. That anything else would be profoundly unfair, and that if sexuality between the genders is unfair then sexual trauma inflicted by the dominant sex is unavoidable and therefore not a concern for law or correction. It's very… handmaidenly, I guess is the word.

>>269391
You are sexually attracted to men, no matter how attracted you are to women or how much you love them. You're bisexual.

>>269393
>>269392
Were you born in a bunker? Look at heterosexual and bisexual women, there is often sexual harassment and even rape in their lives. Moreover, people react to sexual trauma in different ways, fetishization may be the opposite. In "mysterious skin", the retraumatization of a raped boy is well shown

Not exactly the topic, but seems appropriate to put in this thread. I have an idea, that straight male sexuality revolves around femininity rather than femaleness. You know, being small, cute, weak, submissive and being penetrated combined with stereotypical girly stuff. That explains many things. Like so many straight males being into traps, femboys and trannies because they're peak feminine despite not being female. The existance of trannies themselves who jerk off to the idea of them being feminine (weak and submissive, skirt goes spinny and other crap) This also somewhat explains pedophilia in males because kids are weak and small compared to them and that arouses them more than actual mature female.

>>269409
>>269416
Unfounded assumption #1: that there are "so many" self-proclaimed straight males who are ferociously sexually attracted to 'femboys' 'traps' and 'shemales.' There is a wealthy and extraordinarily loud minority who are frequently in media-dominant positions due to the ability to leverage generational wealth because homosexuality is (for reasons unknown) associated with the right hand end of the Trivers-Willard curve. This is also shown in birth order and male-sibling associations with male homosexuality. The wealthier the father the more likely to have disproportionately male offspring and doubly-disproportionately more likely those offspring will be sodomites. In every society, but especially in historical societies in which larger families are normal. That "F1nnst3r" lad who transed out was infamously groomed by a three wealthy oil magnates, his sexual grooming was treated as a joke or as "his decision" by every genuinely heterosexual man who observed it. Porn goes where the money is and that money is where the wealth is, not where the populace is. Lower class men frequently lash out about their erotic tastes being unreflected in highly sexualized media ("has anyone else noticed that you don't see boobies in movies anymore, God Almighty am I tired of seeing dicks but not a single rack").

Unfounded assumption #2: that futas are associatable with shemales, trannies, femboys etc. I'm not telling you to read futa hentai, it is gross and if you have never seen it you are more fortunate than I. But if you've encountered it in the wild you know that the body illustration and movement, posture, etc. is all done in exactly the same way as hentai women, with penis added. It is not possible for a 'shemale' tranny or other bio male to actually exhibit the body language of a woman but futanari are essentially high libido often domme fetish sluts who have a dick added on. There does not seem to be likely crossover in 3d porn tastes between men who like futas because they like huge dicks and men who like futanari because they like huge sluts. It is easy to ignore a single physical trait in a low information capacity static medium like hentai comic books and the evidence for this being the case is everywhere. Consider "monster girls." No-one thinks those men want to fuck literal spiders just because the lower half of the hot girl's body is completely spider and her face is half spider. They want to fuck the hot girl and the spideriness is either just there or is the narrative excuse for why she is sexually available.

>>264532
The vast majority of humans are bi to some degree. You can’t tell me that there’s no one in ~4 billion people that you wouldn’t be at least a little gay for

>>269433
>The vast majority of humans are bi to some degree
Are the data on the number of a particular orientation lying? Women lie that they are not bisexual (the most privileged part of LGBT people after transgender people)Do you understand that a typical woman labels herself bisexual or lesbian, and then it turns out that she is an ordinary hetero who craves attention?

>>269416
Historically, men's attitude to the vagina has been imprinted as a dirty organ that accepts penises, myths that it expands, etc. Most men do not like variety in vaginas, they need a neat one close to the vagina of a little girl without traces of maturity. Therefore, I think men perceive a penis better at the aesthetic level than an adult woman's vagina.

The presence of a penis means gender. the monster girl is perceived as a mythical creature, so the role of the spider is just exotic, which just excites pornodebiles.

>>269464
>The presence of a penis means gender.
I am sure that is true for women. But Freud says that it is otherwise for men, and that the sight of a woman as a person without a penis is psychologically distressing regardless of sexual inclination. Freud is only really considered debunked when it came talking about women or about lesbianism or general homosexuality. He's still considered the go to source for, say, narcissism. Penis does not seem to communicate gender to them.
>the monster girl is perceived as a mythical creature,
–which has fangs or hornclaws or needle-tipped palps and rugged carapace where would be a vagina, a woman's upper body without any feminine sexual vulnerability. But, you already know that does not matter, because the 2d still image genitals or lack thereof don't actually carry meaningful sexual significance.
>so the role of the spider is just exotic,
and dangerous, and powerful, and mysterious, and physically superior but morally questionable, and venomous, and cunning and crafty, many of these being instinctive responses and others being culturally bound, but none of them matter because the girl part is cute or sexy and the male mind wallpapers over everything else in order to avoid realizing that there is a complete person without a penis because otherwise the conflict of Castration Anxiety would cause a neurotic shutdown because Freud is always right (about men).

I would say that it's both but mens sexuality tends to be more fixed while womens sexualities are more malleable. It's why society collectively is disgusted with homosexuality and the men who engage with it are seen as permanently "tainted" so to speak. Even bi men are just seen as gay by most people. Maybe it's just the strong influence of society making us think this but it does make sense. Women aren't shunned as much when they express same sex attraction because homosexual sex involves penetration while lesbian sex doesn't which could explain the revulsion. But it could also be because women aren't seen as too far gone or tainted and could still date men. A lot of women say they're lesbian but have dated men before or still have sexual attraction towards men yet you don't see any man who considers himself gay doing that. The whole bi woman thing were they express interest in women but only date men is a whole phenomenon. Homosexuality is innate while lesbianism is learned but that isn't always the case obviously. There's many cases of molestation occurring in childhood in the case of gay men and there are women who are born lesbian and never had any attraction towards men. But they're considerably rare and I feel that the majority of "lesbians" still have some attraction to men. I won't ever be able to unsee this after realizing it.

>>269488
There might be some reality to what you're saying but a lot of it seems like it's just the gut-deep dread that everyone, of both genders, of all sexualities, has. That spinal reflex, that drop in the stomach when you realize that a prospective intimate partner has probably had sex with a man. There is no heterosexual pansexual bisexual or specialsexual woman I have ever met who has been free of that dread, even if she manages to stifle her outright disgust. Lesbian dread on the subject is more pronounced and more likely to be fitted with outward revulsion but must stem from the same root. The fact that heterosexual men also have this dread is, certainly incontestable but I think on some level homosexual men also have this dread and that managing to stifle that dread causes it to be stifled so far down that there is no limit to the promiscuity and disease that they will tolerate once they break the male-sexual-history barrier.

>>269489
>I think men having sex is gross so everyone else does too including the men having sex
0 theory of mind

I don't have any psychological trauma, have never been assaulted by men, have good relationships with them in general (yes, including my dad as well), have no gormonal and mental diseases, but I am still a lesbo. I guess, I should take testosterone or go on streets and wait to be assaulted to justify my lesbianism.

>>269381
some of it HAS to be social conditioning imo, like I would totally sleep with another woman or live with one in a more intimate way but I get the ick thinking about being in an official relationship with another girl, though it does sound more appealing than another failed relationship with a moid at this point

>>269488
The claims that all women are sexually fluid are built on a society where men call themselves hetero if they jerk off on ladders. Perhaps the estrogen hormonal background gives attraction to men by itself. And lesbianism is a mutation of the female brain.
>A lot of women say they're lesbian but have dated men, that is, a woman will know that she is 1-2% of the population (there are fewer homosexual women than gays) and will not try to heal and change this? I think this woman has misandria or political lesbianism (psychotrauma) if she has never forced herself to have sex with men and has not tried to find a man who will launch a "female sexual fluidity"
> But they're relatively rare and I feel that the majority of "lesbians" still have some attraction to men. I won't ever be able to unsee this after realizing it.
This situation is changing as the age gets older and there are fewer lesbians. It is necessary to combat lesbophobia in society.

Difficult to say. Sometimes I think yes seeing what porn addiction does to men, but that would mean tradfags were sorta right about conversion therapy and do you want them to be right about that?

>>269519
>that would mean tradfags were sorta right about conversion therapy
I see what you mean…that’s why talking about this stuff is so tricky. I always (pseudoscientifically) thought of it as someone is born with a predestined range of potential gayness but early life experience will determine how gay they’ll turn out. Even if I do not agree with the full “born this way” explanation, it’s useful enough to get nuance-proof idiots to accept it without thinking they can change it.
As far as whether there even is a “gay gene” I think things like antenatal diet of the mother or sperm age or even what >>269374 said is just as likely. Even though it’s technically not “genetic” it’s from that murky conception to birth time so it is something people are born with. Part of the reason that I don’t think it’s just from birth is that I think we’d be able to pinpoint why people are gay by now if it was that simple.

>>269522
The purpose of research that shows that a variety of factors affect sexual orientation is to indirectly prove that sexual orientation is not a choice, no matter how bisexuals try to instill it in everyone.
>>269488
Interestingly, women also change their preferences in appearance types and preferences in sexual activities more than men? If there are only changes in sexual orientation, then it is mysterious.

it definitely can be influenced imo. i think i was 7 when my sister's friend showed porn to us (it was the first time i learned what sex was). we were kids so we obviously found jt disgusting and disturbing, and our curiosity didnt let us just turn it off and forget about it lol. i often wonder how i wouldve turned out if i found out about porn later in life, bc im almost 20 and i still have a slight tendency to percieve sex as something nasty like i saw in porn 13 yeas ago dhsgxhsdh i tried rly hard to develop a normal positive healthy relationship w sex but there's still that part of me that finds it a little disturbing

>>269610
again, the division into active and passive.
>>269604
Most people learn about porn early and it's terrible. I'm sorry that you feel that way.