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What ruined the medieval fantasy genre? Anonymous 32668

Feels like every Western made medieval fantasy has over the top gore and explicit sex scenes. While anime's medieval fantasy is just female exploitation and male power fantasies. Makes me nostalgic for the days of wholesome talking dragons and wise powerful wizards guiding groups of adventures.

Anonymous 32669

DnD has always been porny, judging by the artwork in their old books. And pretty much all modern high fantasy is either based on DnD or has its genome in it.

Anonymous 32671


>What ruined the medieval fantasy genre?
Whomst else but moids?

>over the top gore and explicit sex scenes

Game of Thrones I guess?
Everyone and their dogs wants grimdark fantasies now.
>anime's medieval fantasy
I think anime has always been about male power fantasies and, escapism mostly.

Anonymous 32674

Is it all really that bad? Even anime, given the sheer amount of fantasy stuff these days? I won't lie, I haven't watched any of it, but it's hard to imagine a lot of scrotal tendencies popping out in a thing like Dungeon Meshi.

Anonymous 32675


Anonymous 32677


What are you talking about?
Other than Game Of Thrones (which to be fair, is absolutely one of the worst franchises ever) I don't see fantasy like that at all. If anything the genre is stagnant and everything is just trying to be a group of redditor's really crappy D&D campaign.

Anonymous 32678

To be fair there's also The Witcher and its own group of poor imitations.

Anonymous 32680

I sometimes wonder if the people who draw these comparisons read Tolkien anywhere beyond The Hobbit and the first book of LoTR before saying "films only."
>Why didn't anyone ever tell me that Frodo dies at the end of the books?

Anonymous 32684

To elaborate a little more, the book LoTR is about living with death. The mortality of men is compared with the positive immortality of the elves and the negative immortality of the barrow-wights, ringwraiths, oathbreakers and the torment of the corpse-lights in the dead marshes, but that's obvious and surface level. The ents are in a state of denial about the collective deaths of the entwives and their own incoming species-death, which denial leads them to increasing madness and dementia as more and more of them transition into huorns, with old-man-willow called back as the foresign of their inevitable fate and lasting legacy. Bombadil's domain has clearly undergone by present the fate that Gandalf prophesied in the event of Sauron's victory, diminishing in boundary and strength until he is as nought. The Shire's precarity and vulnerability bring home the transitory nature of life by making legacy and the home that was fought for no proof against time and malice and ignorance. Frodo ignorantly opens up the story by saying that 'you can't go home again' is because you yourself are changed by the journey, it is only after the Shire is in ruin that he understands that home must inevitably change as well. Legolas and Gimli's conversation on the stonework of Gondor is not a character moment so much as their culture's perspectives on mortality at that higher level, with the immortal the more optimistic of the two for a reason.

The fantasy anime that anyone is talking about right now is Frieren: Beyond the Journey's End. It is talked about because it very consistently echoes Tolkien's driving theme, more clearly and more gracefully than the movies.

Not only are things not worse, they are not even much different.

When people have complaints about the modern state of fantasy, say the depictions of women, it's common to weaponize Tolkien. "Even a fuddy duddy like Tolkien had Eowyn, Galadriel, and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins was a badguy at first but was sympathetic and even courageous and dignified in the end; even the old maid nurse in the Houses of Healing who spent most of her lines on gossip and ignorance held a role of meaning and dignity." But that's overlooking Goldberry, skewered by Mrs. Collistero at length in the previous video; and Arwen is a noncharacter at best until the appendices where she is a punching bag for dramatic tragedy just in order to make Aragorn that much more dignified and kingly. When people have compliments for modern fantasy writers, regarding, say, sex or race, they punch at Tolkien. One of the GLOWING reviews for Game of Thrones that was written when the show was still considered 'good' praised it specifically for having more incest than Tolkien, which is bizarre considering that the novelization of Children of Hurin had finally been published that year. Pratchett was right about Tolkien becoming the Mt. Fuji of fantasy writing.

Anonymous 32698

yeah the witcher is exactly what I meant by
> trying to be a group of redditor's really crappy D&D campaign.
It is also very not good in my opinion.

Anonymous 32702

Fantasy literature is conventionally split into high, low, and portal fantasy genres. Of the three, portal fantasy is conventionally associated with the use of fantasy as deliberate psychodrama, fantasy-as-metaphor for an individual person's mind and soul. Stephen Donaldson was very up front and deliberate with his novels being an examination of the wickedness and wretchedness of Thomas Covenant, for instance, and C.S. Lewis' portal fantasies were clearly didactic presentations of Christianity, but the element of portal fantasy as dream-fantasy and desire-fantasy means that it can be at once the most serious form of fantasy, a horrific examination of conscience and a trial for the soul of all mankind through the synedoche of an individual man, and the worst form of fantasy, petty wish fulfillment. In modern isekai manga (a type of portal fantasy), because the focus is so much and so extremely on wish fulfillment of the worst order, it is obvious that mankind has collectively failed the trial and the examination of conscience reveals only bestial pleasureseeking and brutishness.

Anonymous 32706

Dungeon Meshi is a unique case in that it's not only a written and drawn by a female mangaka but also has writing far exceeding most other fantasy media out currently without needing to rely heavily on the tropes that other anime or manga do. It doesn't have much gore or any sex at all but it's still not free from sexualizing the characters, although the male characters are generally the ones getting fanservice'd, either with Senshi's crotch being flashed briefly and highlighting his dwarven dad bod or the copious amounts of yaoi baiting between characters like Mithrun/Kabru or Laios/Thistle (though Marcille/Farlyn is also heavily emphasized, even if only as a deep friendship, but still attracts yuri shitters).

Anonymous 32710

>it is obvious that mankind has collectively failed the trial and the examination of conscience reveals only bestial pleasureseeking and brutishness.
1. You should stop comparing good writers who have passed the test of time to the fucking mass-produced slop. As if it didn't exist back then.
2. You'd be surprised how many of the "good ones" you put on the pepdestal used to write literal fucking porn prose and poetry.

Anonymous 32711

Sometimes I wonder how many people have actually tried to read an isekai.
Like, genuinely gotten down and read one. A good amount of them are officially free online, you're not expected to pay anything. Most aren't great by any means, but people overreact to them so badly you'd think they find the idea that some lowbrow novice could write a web novel and get enough of an audience to have it published and adapted without having to go through the normal loops to be disgusting in of itself.

Anonymous 32778


>in the mood to watch comfy medieval fantasy based on Arthurian legend
>expectations: knights going on mythical quests to slay legendary monsters on king's request
>reality: survival horror about a cursed guy who gets scammed in a dual, mugged, loses his weapon
Why do they do this?
I'm trying so hard to watch this till the end and I've taken a dozen breaks already.

I hope the climax is worth all this enduring.
There's was a funny scene where the knight asks a ghost who requests his help to do something what he would get if he completes her quest and she goes like "why are you asking that to a lady? why would you ask that question to anyone?" but that's it.

Anonymous 32779

I gave up. Boring.
I think I know the answer for what ruined the medieval fantasy genre now: Pretentious artsy fartsy directors.

Anonymous 32781

Fantasy, like most modern media, was ruined by infantilized adults. Fantasy is and always will be for children. Adults consume children's content now so producers put blood and tits in it to appease them.

Anonymous 32782

Watched that in theaters with my boyfriend when it was new since he's an A24. He hated it and thought it was boring, but the mood and atmosphere was better than I expected expected. Was well shot, and those horror elements gave it a distinct personality. Would give it a strong 7/10, ending was great.

Anonymous 32784


I took a nap and continuee it.
I watched the parts with the lady and the lord in the manor at x2 [such a shame] but you are right, non the ending was… amazing and it all made sense!

Maybe I'm just overthinking but this thread actually made me realize that the main character is actually a Game of Thrones main character archetype - womanizing, lying, self-absorbed, sexually active, opportunistic, etc. person who got thrown into an Arthurian era where chivalry was expected from a knight, and no wonder he fails miserably.
I was laughing when the Green Knight went "dude, you had a whole year to become courageous why are you scared?".

Maybe the thing that ruined medieval fantasy is moids writing narcissistic characters who are victorious instead of being shamed for being unknightly like in this movie.

Anonymous 32787

You're not completely wrong but even going back to the days of Tolkien it wasn't strictly for kids. It was always bloody at times. I think "infantilized adults" are more why you see things like Bluey and The Amazing Digital Circus exploding in popularity. I think for fantasy the answer is a lot simpler, which is that fantasy authors felt they weren't being taken seriously enough and then decided to make it "more mature" in ironically, the least mature way possible. It worked for GoT because HBO picked it up and anything with incest and boring political arguments will win over HBOs retarded audience.

Anonymous 32788

I remember seeing a review on this, it does seem like the type of movie that's a bit better if you already know the story beforehand and can tell what they changed and why.

Anonymous 32790

>no wonder he fails miserably.
But he doesn't fail

Anonymous 32826

Symbolism five vi…

Why do you think so, nona?
>gets mugged by thieves
>isn't loyal to GF
>gets seduced by lady in manor
>doesn't keep promises and give back green sash to the lord in manor
So on.

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