What types of social stigmas do you feel are still acceptable or never discussed?
>Pay more for the same services yet worse treatment (e.g. worst tables)
>Couples and families prioritized over them
>Society excludes people who are different then punishes them for accepting this
>Pitying looks when doing certain activities alone
>Never portrayed as being happy or an intentional choice in the media
>Usually a result of birth lottery (parents/genes/school) but treated as a moral failing
>Other people feel superior for being a grammar nazi and fail to recognize their own privilege
>Being ESL equated with being stupid
Do you think society will become more accepting of these groups in the future?
I think if you feel stigmatized for doing what you want it's 80% insecurity, or attitude that brings you negative attention. It's so easy to get caught up in your head. But the truth is most people don't care and aren't paying attention.
>Being ESL equated with being stupid
As an ESL speaker myself I've never noticed this myself. (And it doesn't make sense considering monolingualism is today's equivalent of illiteracy). How do you personally experience this?
not op, but it's a thing on lolcow kek
>>111688>What types of social stigmas do you feel are still acceptable
All of them.
Never kissed anyone and/or virgin and/or never been on a date by adulthood
>Automatically assumed to have kissed/had sex because of your age; some people will consider you a liar if you claim otherwise
>Assumed to be ugly/fat
>Thought of as nasty/boring/stupid/generally unpleasant people; worth as a person is based heavily on how sexual you are
>Assumed that it's always a matter of not prioritizing relationships or being religious; that you must not be trying
>People unable to consider that there might be factors outside your control despite the fact that you can't control others and relationships require two people; blame placed 100% on you
>Often considered only a moid thing (harmful since it implies that girls must be really worthless if they're like this because it "should" be easy)
>Girls are fetishized in a childlike way by unsavory moids; targeted for abuse
>Weird double standard that girls aren't supposed to make the first move but also aren't supposed to have no experience (so what are they supposed to do if the guys are slacking?)
Probably NEETs over 30. I do see some sympathy for NEETs and hikis in their late teens or 20s, but don't really see anyone talk about the situation of NEETs who are 30+.
nta but it's not about being esl itself. people have ridiculed me for my "unnatural" english online before, and that is only a result of it being my third language.
Living with your parents as an adult, basically >>111728>>111691
I've noticed it here before. Some of you probably saw that thread, on this very board.
There are lots of stigmas around self harm or just mental illness in my country. Especially towards women or teenagers, or worst of all, teenage girls
>Teenage girls are seen as spoiled little whores whose depression consists of posting sad memes and gloomy aesthetic on the 'net
>Self harm is for cowards who can't commit suicide or just want attention
And yes neets and uneducated people.
>Education gets consistently harder to obtain due to lack of money and the toll it takes on you cause it's stressful
>Hard to find entry level jobs that don't require to interact with lots of customers
>Most jobs require 9+ hours of working time a day
You couldn't afford education?
Well you can't climb the career ladder so you're either so you're working a hellish job or you're a neet:
>Has a degree? Lazy, leeches off of parents
>Doesn't have a degree? Retarded AND lazy, good luck working at mcdonalds for the rest of your life
Those are the only ones I can name off the top of my head.
Samefaggin, just realized I can't spell.
I agree with that, but it's fucking weird since housing prices are sky high, not just in america.
But I think you can use the excuse of "I'm taking care of my parents, they're old and their health is very bad" might not work if they're still like 50. >>111728
Yeah it sucks, as a neet who's gonna turn 20 next year I personally won't judge though, as I still feel ashamed of myself even tho fellow neets keep telling me I'm stupid for being hopeless at this age despite dropping out of high school. I don't want to be a neet at 30 but I'm not gonna judge.
Also gotta add people who grew up without a father. With all the no father jokes going around I don't think I have to explain.
Speaking 3 languages to a degree od actually being able to communicate well in all of them is amazing anon, I hope you don't let it get to you.
People who peaked in high school. That's just how life goes sometimes, someone's best years might really have been their grade school years. They'll be mocked the second they bring it up so they have nobody to talk to about how they feel.
>>111929>Teenage girls are seen as spoiled little whores whose depression consists of posting sad memes and gloomy aesthetic on the 'net
I think there is a stigma around everything to do with teenage girls, despite them being some of the most harmless people in society. For example, the whole Twilight backlash was ridiculous. Yes, the books were not well written but YA books seldom are. The first movie was not a classic but fine for what it was. So many men online felt the need to constantly mention it everywhere on topics that had nothing to do with Twilight just so they could say how terrible it was, despite having neither read the book nor seen the movie. Yet teenage boys are allowed to like plenty of their own terrible media.
The stigma for these things only goes away when it becomes popular with men, such as The Beatles originally being considered music for girls but now they are the best bad ever.
Yes, this is definitely true. Funny how moids say women/girls are literally never harassed for anything when recently I saw a post on a certain website, it was a girl wearing a battlejacket asking people to rate it. It wasn't the best one, and only had a few patches on it, but fuck. The comments were a shit throwing ape fest, there was not a single positive comment or feedback. It was either obviously misogynistic "shut up whore" or retards debating what is poser or not in the most aggressive, incoherent manner possible. To moids i guess this isn't harassment, it's "rightful treatment" for a female who just wanted attention, positive or not.
She wore makeup and had long hair, she was pretty. This did not make moids happy at all, despite how they love to shit on tomboys (real tomboys, not 4chan fetish for tan athletic anime girls) /gnc women/girls.
This is what I don't get. What do they want then? Do they really just want someone who is effortlessly beautiful and listens to the "right" music? Someone who doesn't whore herself out and never asks for attention, but can and will suck cock like a true pro when they ask her to? I don't get it.
Mentioning that sometimes there are legitimate present day medical approved reasons for not getting certain vaccines. Anytime anyone mentions hesitancy for a legitimate reason or that they did not receive specific vaccines for legitimate reasons the anti-anti-vax tribe comes down on them like a ton of bricks. Both groups can be equally anti-research and fail to see the nuisance in the discussion.
hate from moids is eternal they will find any reason to justify it rather than admitting it's instilled as a way of life
lol, I remember when I saw a guy say "you're retarded, Twilight fans don't get any hate. Boys that watch shit like teenage mutant ninja turtles get made fun of and looked down on as much."
So many men hated teen girls with a passion over being passionate about Twilight but then turned around and with the same fervor tried to shut down any
suggestion that it had to do with misogyny–even though they were hating girls over liking a girly thing or acting in harmless ways.
Kinda off-topic but what do you consider a "real tomboy"? I've had a massive argument with a moid over it, and I couldn't find the right words to describe what I meant.
>Being ESL equated with being stupid
In the U.S. this is generally true
Single people>You pay a fuckton of taxes more for simply not being married – the literal backbone of the welfare state along with billionaires
Loners>Most vulnerable to guerrilla marketing in order to cope with being a loner
>>Being ESL equated with being stupid
It is in the U.S. since most ESL education is free or low cost at a local community college. So if you have been in the U.S. for more than 10 years and you're still an ESL, I'm sorry but you're a literal useless retard, and probably a public charge (but sadly, you're a U.S. citizen at this point).
>Do you think society will become more accepting of these groups in the future?
Single people? Never because of what I said.
Loners? Maybe given how extreme individualism is accelerating in the West.
Uneducated people? Nope, especially if education is free/low cost.
even if education is free though, you have to have the time to do it. a single mom with kids and multiple jobs isn't going to be able to go to classes.
ESL just means english second language, meaning that you speak english as a second language. How am I a retard for learning a language that isn't my own? Enlighten me. I'm fluent in three languages, but only of them is my mother tongue. Don't use words if you don't know the meaning they have, you cannot be ESL if you don't speak english in the first place, languagelet.
Americans will look down on ESLs but then either don't speak any foreign language or know only a couple of Spanish words for the sole purpose of padding their CV.
So it's not>ESLs are dumb
it's>ESL immigrants who've been living in America/native English speaking countries for a long time but still don't speak it well are dumb
America is an isolated English-speaking country. It’s not like Europe. There is literally no need to learn another langauge.>>112184
Agreed. Immigrants who come to the US who still struggle to speak English YEARS aftwr (unfortunately) being given citizenship are literally useless burdens.
Lot of monolinguals coping hard in this thread. I'm sorry you don't get a chance to see the world beyond bumfuck Ohio.
Being monolingual in a first world country should be equivalent to illiteracy like another anona said.
Still, it shocks how a lot of people in the US who are immigrants can't speak fluently English after years of being there, that being said learning a whole new language at an old age must be an accomplishment, I speak three languages but I picked the second one when I was a kid so I don't really think it had to do with intelligence or something like that.
Have you guys actually run into people who have treated you poorly for being ESL? As someone who speaks English as a first language- I think it's amazing when people know how to speak more than one! I especially love reading ESL writing, if they're B2 or C1 level, because they express themselves in such an interesting way.
And I have also never really met anybody who looked down on ESLs unless they spoke very, VERY poor English.
Also how is this not the same as looking down on people who speak more than one language???
This anon just kind of proved it's human nature to hate and make fun of anyone not in your 'group' lmao.
I am specifically talking about ESL education. You're obviously missing the point by generalizing all education as free/low cost.>a single mom with kids and multiple jobs>multiple jobs
Hypothetically speaking, how would an ESL get more than one job if, by following your supposition, she isn't even able to grasp English-language instructions from her boss?>>112226>How am I a retard for learning a language that isn't my own? Enlighten me.
You come to the U.S. or any Anglo country without any grasp of the fucking local language, that sole fact makes you someone beyond a retard.
You're an absolute moron if you immigrate to another country without learning the host country's language well. So might as well deport you to Cambodia and see what happens, nona.>>112254
Like I am developing in this precise post, ESLs are also dumb for not learning English before immigrating to any Anglo country.
But yeah, majority of ESL retards simply just don't bother learning a language and just do fuckall but speaking English well.>>112242
You got my attention.
Enlighten me without saying the same "le special bilingual brain, community of learners &c." shit why learning another language is good for you when the majority of the people are monolinguals, and you're supposed to already have learned English well given the fact that all official U.S. documents are written in English.>>112277>Lot of monolinguals coping hard in this thread. I'm sorry you don't get a chance to see the world beyond bumfuck Ohio.
Dumn ESL cope.
You wished you were living in Ohio instead of whatever corrupt as fuck country you're at right now.>Being monolingual in a first world country should be equivalent to illiteracy like another anona said.
Yeah, I'm so illiterate, I can't even do business in court!
Don't mind the little dummy nona, she can't help it.
Never IRL. It is mostly an online thing. >>112286
Anon I think you simply don't know what ESL means. Speaking English as a second language is not the same as not being able to speak it, in fact, it is incompatible with that. Even if you have been speaking English for a long time, it is usually still noticeable in your accent and vocabulary choices that you're not a native speaker. It is pretty much impossible for an adult to learn a foreign language and pass as native speaker, and that has nothing to do with intelligence or effort. This should be clear to anyone who speaks at least one foreign language.
>why learning another language is good for you
You have access to everything ever written or spoken in the languages you've learned, you can communicate with a larger number of people, you can travel safely and independently in a wider range of countries, you have advantages in the job market. Americans seem to be the only group of people who are satisfied purely with the media and knowledge produced locally. >>112280
Well…unless you think looking down on illiterate people is the same thing as looking "down" on literate people, your analogy doesn't stand.
When this whole conversation about ESLs started I assumed anons mean anyone who speaks English as a second language, including those who only use it online, like me. I live in my country of birth but online I occasionally refer to myself as ESL when I fuck up. I didn't realize anons meant ESLs as in non-native English speakers who actually live in English speaking countries IRL lol.
Classical american who can only think about themselves. It's frankly not surprising.
OP here. I meant anyone speaking English as a second language who makes mistakes. Dumb monolinguals sometimes think it means you don't understand the concept at all, instead of realising that you just don't know how to express yourself properly. Or they equate uneducated native English speakers who make mistakes and ESL speakers as the same.
Are you stupid? I can speak English perfectly. You're the retard who doesn't know what ESL means, ESL means a person who learned English as a second language. How can I stop being ESL? I'm literally fluent, I just can't be born again speaking English as my first language. Stop sperging and being racist. No fucking chill.
Other anonas said multiple times what an ESL is yet you are retard enough to not get it, keep your hands busy eating cheetos, fatso, instead of being openly an idiot.
Being an ESL doesn't equal immigrant with a poor english vocabulary, it just means that english is your second language. I'm not an immigrant but I speak three languages because I have to since I travel often.
I hope you can learn another language and see the world someday, perhaps some of your racism will fade away.
>>112376>I hope you can learn another language and see the world someday, perhaps some of your racism will fade away.
Nta, but if anything traveling made me even more of a racist.
Learning a second language partly
depends on what's commonly thought of as "intelligence", but even "dumb" people can learn new languages. There are many different factors involved in the process.
Read "How Languages are Learned" by Patsy M. Lightbown & Nina Spada, specifically Chapter 3: Individual differences in second language learning.>>112112>>112184>>112286
Fucking Americans I swear. So oblivious to their own retardation yet so sure of their "intelligence". This is one of the reasons everyone hates you.>if you have been in the U.S. for more than 10 years and you're still an ESL
Holy shit. You can not be this fucking stupid.
Look retardina, "ESL" stands for "English (as a) Second Language". It means that English is not your native language, it has nothing to do with how fluent you are in it. If you didn't grow up learning English as your mother tongue, but rather learn it later in addition to your first language, you will ALWAYS be ESL, and that doesn't say anything about how good you are at speaking it. You could be even better at English than native English speakers, or speak it even better than your own mother tongue, yet you will always be ESL. Got it?>all this bullshit about le low cost/free education being shit and for stupid people
You definitely posted in the "tampons made by private companies are better quality so the government only makes shit products" thread.
>>112328>I didn't realize anons meant ESLs as in non-native English speakers who actually live in English speaking countries IRL lol.
I don't think anyone meant "living in an Anglophone country", except the American retards who don't understand the concept of ESL. To be ESL, or to be considered a Second Language speaker of any language, you don't have to live in the country that said language is from. And it doesn't matter if you make mistakes or not, either way you're still ESL (though I'm sure you already knew that).
Native speakers of any language fuck up way too often, so it's silly to think you're stupid for getting something wrong in a foreign language. It shouldn't
be a big deal but communities like these are full of elitists and ignorant cunts (though this imageboard is better in this regard than others).
Specifically legs, arms and mustache
I know that armpits and pubes can be shaved (or trimmed in the case of pubes) for practical and not purely aesthetic/sociocultural reasons, but everyone is afraid of the sight of a woman without shaved legs and mustache and I fucking hate it, there is literally nothing wrong with it
I don't shave, but I want trannies to have to shave in the hopes of looking even 1% more like me. Used to find skinwalking insufferable now it's like, hey, take this social construct off my hands buddy, it's all yours. You can't take away what actually makes me a woman and you'll never have that, kek.
Yeah a lot of stuff surrounding the female body is stigmatized.
I don't get it either, if men can have thick, black hair all the way up to their arsehole why can't women leave their body hair unshaved, especially since most of the time women's body hair is barely visible.
>woman without shaved legs and mustache
Women don't have mustaches? Most have thin tuft of baby hair, that ain't a mustache and no reason for it to be shaved.
>>112871>women don't have moustaches
That "thin tuft of baby hair" is what I call a moustache.
In Latin America a lot of women shave it.
Don't forget how they're also shat on for liking boy bands. Everything teen girls enjoy is seen as cringe/uncool and I'm fucking tired of it
Is it visible? then maybe it is. but it's like calling the microscopic hair on your jaw/chin a beard.
*white women don't have mustaches.
Women from different races might have more body hair, and there's also women with hormonal disorders. Your experience isn't universal.
Neither is yours, so saying white women don't have mustaches is pretty hypocritical
I know this is not related to your point but The Beatles suck ass , they're fucking shit .
Yes I've listened to all their studio albums , Sgt.Pepper is garbage and Lucy in the sky with diamonds is one of the worst songs I've ever heard in my entire life .
The average working american does not need to know multiple languages. I can travel thousands of miles and still be in a completely English-speaking area. If I chose to learn French, I would probably forget it over time because I’d literally never get any chance to use it. Not everywhere is like Europe or India where several people speak different languages. Hilarious how people in this thread are calling anons “American-centric” while being completely blind to their own bias.
Never got they hype for them tbh
It's not bias, we are simply not used to only looking up our own asses. Russia is bigger than the US and most educated Russians know at least some other language. What is the point of travelling only within your own country, and restricting yourself to places and media from your native language? I get being too lazy to do it, but it would never be an advantage.
>>112943>Russia is bigger than the US
And most of it is empty forests.
You mean factories bruh. It aint a nature's safe haven. Polluted as any other country
Earth at Night.jpg
All those factories are basically hugging the trans-Siberian railroad.
Most Russians live west of the Ural Mountains and don't travel east of the Urals because as you said, it's basically all factories clustered around a railroad surrounded by empty, polluted forests.
So, like >>112935
said, if a Russian was to travel thousands of miles they're most likely going to end up in a different country where they're either going to have to learn to speak the local language, or pick up a lingua franca (most likely English or maybe French), unlike Americans who can travel thousands of miles, experience new food, new traditions, new things all without leaving the country or needing to use a different language.
>>113032>new things>new food>new traditions>without leaving 'murica
You are coping very hard and you know it.
t. only ever learned of America from television
The South isn't the same culturally as the Northeast.
California is very different compared to the Midwest.
The people in the Southwest do things very differently than the people in Cascadia etc.
This especially true outside the cities btw. I always get a good laugh when people say America has no "culture", they obviously only get their view of America from Hollywood, which hates and has been trying to strangle the America that exists outside of the big cities.
Implying burgerland is the only country in the world with differences among regions lmao.
Anon didn’t say that though.>>113051>i know nothing about american culture, therefore it doesn’t exist>>112943>restricting yourself to places and media from your native language?
If I’m visiting a foreign country for a vacation, sure, I will learn the basics of their language, but there’s no reason to become fluent in a foreign language if you plan to live in America long term. Also, English subtitles exist.
>This fucking thread
The only hilarious thing missing in picrel is the lack of a joke on anons not knowing the slangy meaning of "ESL" online, instead of being complete autists who continue referring to the formal, academic definition of "ESL."
>>113151>falling empire after some mere centuries>all culture derivative in nature>fully fledged racial war>woke hell hole>superiority
I would not live there even if I were paid millions
>>113140>Anon didn’t say that though
NAYRT but it's sort of implied that regional differences are unique to America when you read both >>113032
Women going after men first instead of the other way around
Notice how it's only the same 2 or so Ameritards trying to cope/make people believe that they're right (and long after that discussion has died down) "Slangy"? Sorry Burger, only in your ignorant American racist circles that's the official definition.
>>113632>you desperately waiting for someone to mention america so you can make a school shooting joke
That and whole country getting cuсked by hairy men in dresses
Cross-racial facial blindness. There's the stereotype of "all [race] look the same" but to some people they really do and it's not because they're racist. It can be brain damage or autism related or if you just grew up somewhere that is all the same race.
If you mention it, you're racist. If even just fail to hide it properly, you're racist.
>>113636>this desperate to score a zinger on random strangers
George Costanza levels of pathetic
Just don't reply to that dumbass, she's not interested in a rational discussion, don't stoop to her level.
i get a lot of weird/pitying looks whenever i joke about my experiences in the psych ward. never understood it. it was a long time ago, im better now, why the fuck do you care so much? its almost as if the thought of me having had mental struggles grosses them out. annoys the hell outta me
I feel like as much as people pretend otherwise these days, mental illness is still has a huge stigma. Look at how many people will call someone who treats them badly "psycho", "crazy", "unhinged" instead of recognizing that a lot of the time these people will have real mental illness (or some other disorder) that is making them behave that way and that they are likely suffering too. Or even if the person doesn't have mental illness, just throwing words around with negative mental illness connotations as insults isn't great either.
It doesn't mean that everyone who is treated badly is not allowed to feel pain but the fact that people immediately drop their facebook post "caring about mental illness" fake attitude as soon as they are annoyed shows how stigmatised the whole thing is and how people really view mental illness. People pretend we've moved on from laughing at Bald Britney but we really haven't. The only difference is that people are more likely to blogpost about their depression because mental health care is not existent.
You get weird looks because you’re sharing a very personal experience with strangers and it makes you look like an attention-seeker
While I think it's fucked up that it's stigmatized, it also is just…unironically sus when people are just extremely open. Like, their first impulse is to drop their tragic back story on a stranger. With >>115689
it looks like she fishes for a certain reaction and then gets frustrated when people are just weirded out.
Why would you share something so personal and obviously a negative time in your life with random people without expecting them to be weirded out by you or at best pity you, are you histrionic or just retarded?
well duh, how else are people supposed to react? They're not going to joke around with you on the risk of getting accused of being insensitive afterwards. Pity is the safest emotion here, or a "weird" look because they don't know how to handle you joking about a generally thought of sensitive subject.
Not exactly a social stigma but I think in the future it will be considered unacceptable to display human remains without written consent from the person or their relatives. I suppose there is a stigma against people from long ago who had "stupid" beliefs. They would never dig up someone's catholic grandmother from the present day and put them on display.
Lol in my country we had vax propaganda showing dead people in ads on facebook and so on telling "they waited with vaccine, now they are dead" and some of the photos were not taken with the consent of the family.
So possibly some kid saw his dead grandpa on facebook :^)
Yikes, I'll never understand how people seem to think someone's right to privacy, especially around their body, just disappears when that person dies. Sure, they aren't going to know about it, but having naked pictures of you out there without your knowledge is considered a violation of privacy. The person's aliveness and their body are both parts of them. Just because one part is gone and they can't say no doesn't mean that the other part is now up for grabs.
I'm not anti-vax btw.