/b/ - Random

wtf happened to all th3 other replies in this thread???

>>164686
It's always been bearstain anon, don't question it.

>>164486
Don Bluth was a weird man and other people were constantly trying to stop him from implementing his bad ideas in his movies. It didn't always work.

i used to love thumbelina

>>164756
Nta from earlier but Don Bluth did some good work and naturally never let the artist ruin the nostalgia for any art you saw. That's the beauty of any art, the viewer can impose their own message or feeling to it and usually end up at least partially correct even if the artist disagrees. It's just a subjective concept overall.

>>164486
I share a similar sentiment with disney movies. They might feature pretty animation and the princesses might have a bit more personality than Thumbelina but it still feels like movies that were made to brainwash little girls into abusive relationships. I've known this woman that I met in university that told me she thought real love was like what you see in Disney movies and ended up traumatised by some moid that abused and lied to her. I'm pretty sure there is a study that shows how the level of identification with Disney princesses found in a young girl correlates to the potential abuse they might have normalised for themselves. I'm pretty sure you could find the study that mentioned that with goole scholar.

>>164762
Okay but wheres Mulan and Pocahontas?(non-sequels, they don't count)Naturally I'm not excusing the examples there but rather wish to hear your thoughts on how they would compare to the theory.

>>164764
Mulan goes from a fierce badass warrior who saved a bunch of moids lives to being demoted to some sexist pampered moid’s concubine.

Pocahontas left behind her tribe and family for some white scrote in England to become his exotic human zoo bedwench. It’s really not a good message to send to young girls either.

>>164776
Pocahontas’s real life is hella sad too. She was kidnapped by white men, held for ransom against her tribe, forced to marry some Angloid coomer at 17 who marital raped her and she gave birth to a son. Pocahontas then died at age 20. The son’s Angloid dad apparently abandoned him and the kid never saw him again.

>>164776
>Mulan goes from a fierce badass warrior who saved a bunch of moids lives to being demoted to some sexist pampered moid’s concubine.
>Pocahontas left behind her tribe and family for some white scrote in England to become his exotic human zoo bedwench. It’s really not a good message to send to young girls either.
Picrel
>>164777
Yeah honestly it was very fucked up and one thing I didn't mind Disney modifying for once though naturally she should have ended up leading the tribe and marrying the nice indian scrote who should have let her be herself more.
As for Mulan I do agree though I wonder if it would have sparked this gender debate a lot earlier if Mulan kept dressing like a man the whole movie and became head of the Emperor's guard instead of some doll for him to wheel out and make people clap.

>>164776
In the second movie Pocahontas dumps that white scrote for a new one iirc. Never saw that in disney movie lol

>>164779
It is true that she got captured by John Smith and his crew then was married off to some other scrote plantation owner called John Rolfe.

>>164778
Shang is impressed by her badassery but only when he knows her as a man. In the scene where the doctor and scribe see her boobs and the scribe calls her ‘a woman, a treacherous snake’. Shang is extremely pissed off and the scribe encourages Shang to behead her. Shang is about to slice her head off with a sword, but then hesitates and ultimately doesn’t, only because she ‘saved his life’ and his ‘a life for a life’ ethos. This means if she hadn’t saved his life he probably would have murdered her.

Then at the end she returns to her dull domestic life and Shang plans to marry her. So basically despite being the best warrior in China she still is going to be maid into a handmaiden, and probably a concubine as it was traditional for high ranking men in Chinese culture at that time to have harems.

Mulan has to save her dad’s life, her army, the emperor, Shang, AND all of China in order to get a tiny bit of respect as a woman. All while larping as a man. She’s a FTM whiteknight for scrotes basically. It’s actually really depressing.

>>164782
Made into a handmaiden**

>>164782
>Shang is impressed by her badassery but only when he knows her as a man. In the scene where the doctor and scribe see her boobs and the scribe calls her ‘a woman, a treacherous snake’.
Bookmen calling women snakes, the irony was never missed by me even when I saw it as a kid.
>Shang is extremely pissed off and the scribe encourages Shang to behead her. Shang is about to slice her head off with a sword, but then hesitates and ultimately doesn’t, only because she ‘saved his life’ and his ‘a life for a life’ ethos. This means if she hadn’t saved his life he probably would have murdered her.
Yeah honestly made me stop rooting for the guy as the other men in her little group all were actually rather accepting of it and sure had some hesitation but went back to trusting her and following her leadership after the shock wore off. Which I always thought was nice to see even though yeah the rest of the movie sends the opposite message there.
>Then at the end she returns to her dull domestic life and Shang plans to marry her. So basically despite being the best warrior in China she still is going to be maid into a handmaiden, and probably a concubine as it was traditional for high ranking men in Chinese culture at that time to have harems.
The one she hated in the beginning and no doubt hates even more after having experienced what actually made her happy.
>Mulan has to save her dad’s life, her army, the emperor, Shang, AND all of China in order to get a tiny bit of respect as a woman. All while larping as a man. She’s a FTM whiteknight made into a handmaiden for scrotes basically. It’s actually really depressing.
It really is, it really is.
That's the world sometimes, just, not really too accepting if ya missed out on the birth lotto and don't fit into your accepted mold, wish it would change but I doubt it ever will.

It’s ovar.

>>164791
Whenever I think that, I just remember picrel. For context the character died and technically his(none of them have gender really but)race had no way to make children yet there they are.
So too can your ideologies spread in the weirdest of ways that you would never expect until you see it happen.

>>164768
Anon you made me curious but I haven't been to find much on this subject, please tell me more

Mulan wasn’t even Chinese she was a Xianbei, who were proto-Mongolian people. Her name was a sinified version of a proto-Mongolian name. It makes more sense that she would be a Mongolian woman because it wasn’t uncommon for Mongolian women trained in stuff like archery and eagle hunting, compared to Chinese women of that time.

Just because she was fighting a tribe of Huns/Mongols doesn’t mean she was Chinese. Mongolia at that time was made up of hundreds of different warring tribes and the tribes fought amongst themselves a lot in a struggle for dominance and power over the regions. The more you know.

>>164978
To be trained in stuff like**

>>164978
Just another case of the CCP warping history and using it as Chinese propaganda.

>>164978
>>164981
>>165087
>>165090
It's complicated, but the Xianbei are Chinese, just not necessarily Han, although they might be. The short version is
>Xianbei found the Northern Wei
>Sinicise themselves by intermarriage with Han and adopting Chinese government, politics, names and culture while retaining some personal practices
>Northern Wei splinters into many dynasties, is briefly reunited, then is absorbed into the Tang, founded by the Li dynasty
>the Li dynasty had both paternal Han and maternal Xianbei heritage

There's a lot of confusion in the West because Chinese lineage did not work like European, and was both cultural and biological. The original term for Han denoted the Huaxia, which was a confederation of various states and tribes which were "civilised" compared to nomadic "barbarians". Being from China does not make you Chinese. For example the Yayoi people came from Yunnan less than three thousand years ago but are not considered Chinese.

>>164776
>>164782
>>164787
Mulan wasn't a bad movie at all. She literally proved herself to be an excellant warrior and while after finding out she was a woman her male peers were upset, they ultimately trusted her and respected her excellant military skill, which is something huge in a culture like hers.
She returns home because she hasnt seen her family and they might be worried she's dead, and Shang falls in love with her not because of some vain reason like her being super beautiful (like in all the other disney movies), but because of her intelligence and skill.
She does not become his concubine or bangmaid, nor was that really implied, she retained her high rank in the sequel (although the sequel has its own slew of problems with sexism, where iirc she almost marries some moid she didn't like to take the burden off of another girl).
In general, its about a woman proving herself and her worth BEYOND being a bangmaid handmaiden in a heavily patriarchal society. It was always my favorite disney movie and the songs are really fantastic.

>>165285
Mine too , mine too.

>>165090
>le evil see see pee
Go back to Reddit

>>165296
Everyone hates the CCP especially all of Asia lol cry harder Xi and go fall into a sinkhole.

>>165097
The intermarriage of Xianbei Nomadic women with Han Chinese men didnt start until hundreds of years after the Ballad of Mulan was written dumdum.

Han Chinese moids tried to use rape as a form of ethnic genocide because they couldnt get laid otherwise. They're still doing it now by forcing Uyghur women into marriages with Han Chinese incels.

Xianbei people's DNA is genetically closest to Ulchi, Kazakhs, Mongols and Buryats, none of whom are Chinese btw. Even Northern Chinese people who lived in very close proximity dont have much genetic commonality.

>being from China doesnt make you Chinese
Yes. And someone should tell that to China so they stop trying to erase all the different cultures and peoples who happen to be under their shitty evil government's zone.

>>164762
>>164776
>>164777
Thanks anons, I never watched these movies as a kid because I never found the whole princess shtick interesting. Now I have some more ammunition against it.

>>165296
The irony is that reddit's updoot/downdoot system most resembles China's social credit system, and pointing this out gets you many downvotes (they removed my post on controversial opinions where I mocked redditors, saying China's social credit system should be adopted everywhere irl because it's just like upvotes and downvotes, everyone would get real-life karma that lets you see whether they're good or bad. Redditors didn't seem to like this opinion at all it seems [I guess you could say it was truly unpopular]. I spent ages grinding karma just so I could post on that account too).

With that said, China is technically bad (it's an empire after all), but it's always infuriating hearing about "Chinese propaganda" when American propaganda is so much more widespread and invasive. It's staring us right in the face in the form of Disney movies and yet it's China's propaganda that's truly outrageous here… Among other forms of propaganda is the sheer power of American soft propaganda. Statistically speaking, almost all English speaking movies and TV shows have AMERICAN voices, even though there are several different English accents. The proportion of film with American accents compared with the actual proportion of people with American accents is extremely tipped in favour of America. I don't know any Americans, but I do know a couple of brits. Yet American accents seem less exotic than British accents EVEN THOUGH STATISTICALLY SPEAKING (FOR MY AREA) THEY AREN'T. If it weren't for Hollywood, I wouldn't have known what Americans sounded like until I was 21 (when I saw my first one irl). Sorry I … I get passionate about propaganda.

>>165390
Until the US government is intentionally genociding people in 2022 and putting people in jail for saying fuck the government on social media then yeah we can complain about America’s shittiness. Until then China is worse by every measurable standard.

>>165390
Anon, there’s a big difference between using virtual updoots for a website that’s basically meaningless and has no impact on someone’s day to day existence, and applying that updoot system irl to peoples real lives -_-

>>165390
Obviously American movies are gonna have American accents lol. Do you really think Chinese made movies don’t do the exact same, and give everyone, even the non Chinese actors and characters, Chinese dub?

>>164690
What? That doesnt answer ny question. This thread was filled and then all the replies magically disappeared

>>165390
This is the most braindead retarded post I have ever even seen

>>164486
You now an AMAZING movie from the same period as Thumbelina op? The Secret Garden. It actually had thumbelina in the previews as well as Batman. I watched this as a child more than any other movie.

It's creepy because my mother also had two perfectly matching ivory elephants. One of their trunks was even broken. She had a wooden box with drawers and a giant skeleton key. Naturally I put the key in the box. It sounded exactly the same as the box from the movie, when you opened and closed it. I opened and closed it over a hundred times because I was obsessed with that sound. I have no idea why.

I remember watching that when I was little. Everything in it made me pretty uncomfy, but I liked the bumblebee and I still do. Buzzbee is a good bug.

>>165483
Yes I loved this beee!!

>>164762
>Cinderella
This is true though. It's not the best lesson to teach but teaching women to value their beauty is valid. There's nothing inherently wrong with marrying into money but I see the point that it could lead to an abusive relationship.

>Belle
She was both beautiful, smart, and a good person. I don't know how this could be your takeaway from the movie. The bimbos who fawn over gaston are appropriately shown as shallow.

>Jasmine
Fair enough, this is just how ancient monarchies worked though. If you don't have an heir to the throne your kingdom collapses.

>Sleeping beauty
lol

>Snow White
This is also kinda true in a less extreme way.

>Ariel
This is the worst take. The movie wasn't trying to make you think it was "okay" to do this. Ursula is literally the villian in the story and the entire deal she makes with Ariel is blatantly a scam. It turns out to be a happy ending because her plan is thwarted.

If there is any correlation between Disney princess identification and abusive relationships I think it's more about having an overly idealistic perception of men and how relationships actually work than how the princesses are written.

>>259306
Its nice that you can find positivity in these characters but this isnt what little girls are taking away from the movies when they watch them.

>>259306
The best part is every character needs or yearns for a Prince Charming, who is obviously a narcissist who falls for girls at his first sight, doesn't really care about deep relationships and simply lovebombs them.

>>259306
I think the real point of contention here is that beauty is both a prerequisite and a plot-moving device. Nothing happens if the prince doesn't get horny for them from the first glance. Which is why Mulan is the best one.

>>259306
>but teaching women to value their beauty is valid.
what does this mean? like what does it mean to say something is valid?
>She was both beautiful, smart, and a good person.
I think the point was that despite being beautiful, smart, and a good person she was expected to see past the beast's ugliness and settle. The problem with beauty and the beast isn't anything with Belle - it's that the moral is to settle for someone measurably beneath you.

>>164486
Has anyone seen those anime versions of the princesses? Sorry, it doesn't ask to get it in English
https://youtu.be/wNzgQWrHWwo?feature=shared

>>164762
My uneducated guess is it relates to how 'romantic' these women are. They live in la la land. Intense romanticism combined with an inability to separate fantasy from reality puts a target on their back. The worst part is when they are shown firsthand how men will manipulate their aspirations but still believe their Disney prince is out there. It reminds me of women who are really into shoujo, otome games, and the like and view these stories not as fantastical escapism but as guides to reality.

As an adult I'm realizing that it's men who get treated like princesses and despite the fact that I spend so much time dreaming of being held, romance would make me feel suffocated. That's why I fucking prefer the fantasy plus yeah the brainwashing is dangerous

>>260324
Fantasy is better but I never seek it out in reality thankfully yet still enjoy fantasy and trade it for anything irl

>>164762
I always vibed with Aurora from sleeping beauty, but I never knew why until such a thought-provoking thread.
The moral that I see in sleeping beauty is that the ultimate man of your dreams is one that fights for you and risks everything for your sake - all while you do absolutely nothing and just sit back and relax

this is definitely my kind of relationship

>>164762
The real takeaway is this is what women want, as evidenced by
>>272664

>>164762
Looking back, I hate how this bullshit brainwashing was pushed onto us. Even now, it still is.

>>164486
The whole movie is very sus

>>259335
see, this is why it's not even a meme that Shrek 2 is an actual cinematic masterpiece. Prince Charming represents everything a man should not be. He's weak effeminate. He does not pursue what he wants, he demands that everything he wants is brought directly to him. He has a personality, but does not show that to Fiona- he assumes that she already loves him, and instead presents to her a stark and wooden caricature of what he thinks women want, that is obviously just a front. He's literally the perfect incel.

A man can be rich and handsome, but if he acts like a turbo autistic narcissist, women will be naturally repelled by him.

Shrek, on the other hand, is a man of action. He rushes forward to complete the task expected of him, and he gets the job done. He's funny, dresses well, grooms himself, bathes regularly (albeit in a swamp, but this should still allow him to clean himself), and he's extremely assertive. He doesn't give into Fiona's bullshit- when she sits down and refuses to move, he picks that bitch up and carries her. He does none of this with the expectation of attracting Fiona, but all these traits come together to form an "idea" of shrek that ticks most women's boxes. This is where the "shrek is beautiful" meme comes from. While not everyone will be attracted to him, he's an undeniable paragon of manliness. Every man in our society should strive to be like Shrek.

>>272889
christ that's a lot of typos. Why the fuck is there no option to delete my post and try again?

>>272889
Sooo a massive post supporting conventional gender roles

>>272889
Again, not everyone is attracted to a dude like shrek, but every single man out there should have a poster of him in their rooms. He is the ideal male personality phenotype. If every guy acted like he was Shrek, then every single world problem would evaporate.

>>272897
>>272889
Nona, Shrek is a fairy tale. In real life, narcissists - especially rich, privileged narcissists - have been studied to make more money, do better with the other gender and live happier lives. People who are ostracized, bullied and discriminated against do not become confident, heroic men. They develop crippling self esteem issues, bitterness towards society, depression and suicidal thoughts.

>>272898
>People who are ostracized, bullied and discriminated against do not become confident and heroic

thats what happened to me. you just gotta not be a little bitch about it.

Yes, I'm bitter towards society, but I'm extremely arrogant and view depression as a sign of mental weakness and look upon suicide as the ultimate pussy move.

>>272898
Isnt that the point of Shrek though? He never did anything heroic, all he wanted was to take his swamp back and by chance it involved saving a princess. The princess was forced to see his character instead because of his helmet, and after coming to terms with her initial shock she remembered that she herself wasnt much better than him and gave him a chance. They aren’t perfect people but we don’t need perfect people, just people who will understand. Society is what shames us for marrying “ogres”.

>>272898
Nor is it naive enough to say that all men who are unattractive have hearts of gold. I mean look at Lord Farquaad. His height is entirely played for laughs with his typical short man syndrome.

>>272889
prince charming wasn't shit because he was effeminate (something that he wasn't at all) but that he was an abusive hurtful monster which believed that he should get things which he doesn't deserve while he hurts others, he is willing but willing on the sense of being an awful person, shrek in comparison was just a good person which was funny and always tried to improve the lives of others even if he didn't felt that it was like that or did thing which hurt him while not helping anyone (like not having friends and living alone by believing that he was lesser by being an ogre), shrek was good because he let fionna accept him rather than farquad or charming abusive withholding and rape tier tactics, the act of misinterpreting the act of shrek rescuing fionna by his interest to return to status quo as a reflection of love rather than of helping fionna is a very reductive and unironically a reflection of normalizing the violent dynamics of relationships where one does something not because of being empathic but to obtain a benefit, which is what charming did.
>but the scenes of fi
these wh

shrek is loved or liked by being a nice person which is helpful and caring, the opposite of the male stereotype you are talking about which is individualistic, narcissistic and abusive (these last two are the issue of charming), charming didn't thought that fionna liked him but that he could coerce her into being with him by lying to her, which is what most people do on relationships nowadays, charming was the reflection of the male which you would like to talk as this ideal male by having the traits that you are falsely attributing to shrek and finding them desirable, not accepting that the traits which make shrek a good men is because he doesn't follow these stereotypes of what it's to be a man and thus does whatever is right rather than supposing an attitude, something that prince charming by his interest in hurting others didn't, shrek wasn't more assertive or caring/submissive (a thing which just reflects a personality and not if a person is able by both personalities being needed on healthy relationships on a balanced or equivalent extent for it to work, so you need on a relationship by one part having one of it or both parts being mixes of both, shrek was very balanced and didn't fall on being overly submissive or individual) but a good person which didn't do things by what people expected of him but what it was right, something that you are ironically asking the contrary, thus making more princess charmings.
tl;dr you are just asking for toxic relationship dynamics by being groomed into not having any sense of self.

>>275308
these where scenes which reflected that shrek did it not because it was in love but because he didn't really was interested in fionna, it's to reflect that even if he was doing something wrong by ignorance and general lack of understanding at the moment of farquad immorality that he would do everything to have what he would like to call his status quo where everything was alright even if it wasn't (as him not hurting others by separating himself to his swamp and not having friends or a couple), something that he recognizes as wrong by his and fionna development in relationships and thus understanding what is real love, it isn't something that forces but did by feeling that he was doing the right thing, something that he removes by lending that to fionna over the movie, the opposite of what you are saying.

As a Latina, I always thought the frog was super pretty and I didn't care about the stereotypes because it was everywhere during that time period. Minorities weren't the only ones getting stereotyped and the frog thing was clearly not meant to be offensive. There were lots of caricatures of Europeans too. Picture related, this dude from the same movie spoke in a comical French accent.

>>164777
A lot of white moids have this attitude of knocking up non white women and running eldest like in Philippines
Think it was a native woman that married a Spaniard and having his kid , played a big role in helping conquer aztecs and other native tribes

>>296749
Spaniards aren't white

>>296768
they are lmao

>>164762
>>259306
>>259335
A good life lesson is the one that is true. For the last 1000 years if you see a powerful man he had 99% of the time a beautiful wife, sometimes there was more than just beauty, but this is not the point. Keep in mind women have equal right for ~100 years and this is not the case for every part of the world. Almost all muslim countries restrict women right and muslims become larger % of earth population year by year. Also we are one nuclear war away from going 1000 years back as species if not more.

>>272889
Shrek straight up is propping you for fail if you take its lesson at face value. Sure its message look good on paper but in real life it will be a disaster unlike the old fairy tales.

Also please be honest do you think prince Charming or Farquaad are worse than some random Saudi prince? What do you think it will happen to someone who not try to court his arrange marriage future wife but also is sitting on something said prince desire? If the answer is not ending up chopped up in suitcase your answer is wrong.

>>275164 what is the point to live your life just trying to prove everyone everyone wrong (and failing at that), you just wasted your life and you only have one.

tldr Old fairy tales give may come as shallow but the lesson they give still holds true because people are shallow, stories like Shrek are too idealistic to work in real life, if you adhere to some unrealistic moral code you will just get endlessly screwed by people who take shortcuts and have no morals.