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Tired of hearing "society only cares about women's well being" Anonymous 218532

Yes, I know men kill themselves ~2 times more (worldwide). However, I don't think it relates to how "society cares more about girls", but rather to how women have more emotional freedom and seek professional help more often.

As a matter of fact, I barely see people talk about how women have higher rates of neuroticism and clinical depression (even in researches that use self-reported measures instead of only diagnosis), attempt suicide at higher levels than men and score lower in studies on Subjective well-being (SWB). Meanwhile, everyone loves to preach about male loneliness and men's mental health. They even have a month dedicated to it.

I take it specially to heart because I am extremely lonely and no one gives a fuck. What are your thoughts on it?

Anonymous 218533

There are ~3 completely different things being argued about when you talk about society caring for or not caring for men's vs women's wellbeing. First being therapeutic services, second being both legal procedures and law enforcement services, and the third being interpersonal behavior. The trouble is that item 1 is an extremely serious issue that does manifest and obvious harm to women worldwide, item 2 is debatable, and item 3 is trivial but is always the ultimate cause of sad-at-the-internet syndrome.

There are a number of arguments that get folded under the banner of male therapeutic negligence, and it's not in women's best interests to minimize that issue. Elliot Rodger was in therapy and was taking his prescribed SSRIs prior to his mass shooting, and countless men have entered the psychiatric and therapeutic environment and come out the other side just as retarded and terrible as before–there comes a point in this process where we ought to stop insisting that the process is perfect but that only good boys deserve to benefit from medical treatment, since there are no good boys and if there were good boys don't need no medicine.

It is risible to say that the problems with therapeutic services with regards to men are failures of intent rather than failures of effect. "Nobody cares about boys" is the dumbest possible argument to make on this front since male psychology services failures inevitably and invariably harm women *most of all*. Only a fraction of men who do not benefit from therapy harm themselves or take their own lives, an infinitely larger share harm women or take women's lives. If psychiatry and mental health services care about women so much and if care is the only factor that causes mental health services to succeed or fail then *men's services would be fucking impeccable.* Necessarily. And… they aren't.

Since this is already going to center on male suicidality, here's a recent study from the UK concerning middle aged men that's making the rounds. Middle aged men are infinitely more interesting in terms of demographics of suicidality as there are a lot of confounding factors with men in their 20s to 30s.
https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=55305
50% of men who successfully commit suicide do so after contacting mental health services.
38% had contacted some form of services that week, usually mental health services but also frequently law enforcement agencies.

It is found in general and at large that males do not benefit much from current mental health services related to suicide prevention.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4377906/
This is usually worded as benefitting "less" compared with women but when you try to look for signs of benefit versus never seeking help at all you won't find much evidence in either direction.

The male suicide rate is also found to not be a matter of method preference as had previously been thought.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21937122/

There is significant stigma to seeking mental health services as a male which would not be found for women, and this stigma will always exist because it exists for good reason. If you were dating a moid and found out that he was in therapy I would advise you to cut him loose, and employers also understand and will also exercise caution or restructure when they find a legally acceptable means of doing so without violating various federal regulations. I will try to find it again though I seem to be unable to, but there was a study surveying psychologists and therapists on their patients that found that men's assumptions regarding how their careers would go if others learned they had used mental health support services were largely accurate. Passed over for assignments, demotions, wage stagnation, increased financial tension in their home lives, relationship failure (probably not helped by the alarming rate at which men develop romantic fixations on any woman involved in their therapy whether or not she's a 60-year-old 250lb nurse or a group therapy divorcee heroin addict), and so forth. One of Freud's blunders was in assuming that this "transference" also occurred among female patients, and was inherent to psychotherapy, simply because Freud was incapable of escaping his own male psyche.

Item 2, legal procedures and law enforcement issues. This is never what sad-at-the-internet types actually concern themselves with. As with any broad spectrum of laws, procedures and law enforcement culture there's a billion and a half things that go wrong and are institutionalized into wrongness. What I will point out, though, is that the modern Men's Rights arguments are only concerned with institutional situations that involve prevention of harm by men to women. Men's rights arguments have actually managed to become worse on this front since the 1920s - E.B. Bax was, for all his many and extraordinary flaws and neuroses, an able lawyer and a committed Marxist who defended the red flag both from slanders and from revisionists, and whose lasting and most meaningful impact could be found in his opposition to the death penalty and to corporal punishment. Men's rights that actually meant a damn thing. When MRAs support BLM I can consider them to have met the bare minimum degree of integrity required to hold that title.

Item 3 does ultimately relate to item 1. I do not believe you will find a single therapist or psychiatrist in the world who would argue that therapy or psychiatry can ever actually reduce or supplant a need for socially normal associations and personal emotional support within your normal social environment, and those socially normal associations do include normal romantic relationships and experiences. But I do not see any evidence that this is categorically worse for males than for women.

Anonymous 218534

>I do not believe you will find a single therapist or psychiatrist in the world who would argue that therapy or psychiatry can ever actually reduce or supplant a need for socially normal associations and personal emotional support within your normal social environment, and those socially normal associations do include normal romantic relationships and experiences.

Completely false you do not need romantic relationships. I've never sought them out with much passion or enthusiasm.

Anonymous 218535

>>218534
If you had romantic relationships I have to assume that within those relationships you would need "personal emotional support" though. Maintaining a relationship in which you are unsupported would be extremely destabilizing.

Anonymous 218536

minimizing moid mental health issues does nothing to bring focus and attention towards women it just stigmatizes their seeking help more so that they end up more likely to take it out on women.

i dont think there is anything wrong with male mental health month or talking about male loneliness so long as women aren't placed as blame but rather the current socioeconomic setup of the corporatist & consumer society that makes up most of the developed world (which is for the most part designed and engineered by a small subset of men to keep everyone else, including almost all women and the majority of men unhappy and unfulfilled romantically and sexually for the purpose of maximum profit).

that said as per what >>218533 posted, mental health services largely don't help moids in the same way they do women.

Anonymous 218537

>>218534
I'm sorry I genuinely don't trust a miner who says "you don't need romantic relationships".

It's true women probably place a lower priority on it on average compared to moids because we're typically not as h0rny as them but categorically it's false to say that people (women) don't need them.

The main reason many women put up with the messed up dating market and hook up culture that doesn't value them to begin with even in a world where many women have become financially independent is in search of romance.

A famous example is Christine Chubbuck who ended her life on live television because no one loved her romantically.

I imagine many many more women never commit suicide because of it but still live terrible lives of suffering and loneliness, which they then pass onto their children in the form of child abuse or neglect. So no, you can't say that people (women) don't need romantic love.

If they didn't, moids would have literally no one to reproduce with as literally zero people on earth would be willing to reproduce with them and put up with their repulsive habits.

Anonymous 218538

>>218537
I'm not that anon you're replying to, but what kind of bullshit normalfaggot reasoning is that?

>A famous example is Christine Chubbuck who ended her life on live television because no one loved her romantically.


Just because a mentally ill person kills themself because they could not get something, it does not mean that all people need that thing. Mentally ill people will kill themselves because they can't get a number of things that do not just include romance.

For instance, if someone kills themselves because they can not get a BMW or something else, then it would be a massive stretch to say that having a BMW is a a need, and if you can not get one, then you will die. It's simply not in the same league as drinking water or eating, which you will certainly die if you do not do those things.

Just because a lack of something causes a person suffering to the extent that they would end their lives, it doesn't mean that it would cause everyone else the same level of suffering. Others may be content with not having that certain thing, whatever it may be. People's wants and needs vary from person to person.

>I imagine many many more women never commit suicide because of it but still live terrible lives of suffering and loneliness, which they then pass onto their children in the form of child abuse or neglect. So no, you can't say that people (women) don't need romantic love.


A woman shouldn't even have children if they aren't even with the right guy in a stable relationship. However, there may be an instance where a woman is in a good relationship, but it turns sour. Regardless of the circumstances, not all women who experience a lack of romantic love will become neglectful or abusive towards their children. That seems like a blanket generalization.

Anonymous 218539

>>218538

>Comparing a deep biological urge hardwired into almost every human for hundreds of millenia that has been shown to create deep-seated mental illness in its absence to someone who is likely already mentally ill beforehand being upset over not having the latest german shitmobile on 4 wheels.


you must be trolling.

The vast vast majority of women want relationships and if you don't want them you are in a small minority and need to stop minimizing the longing and suffering of women who need those things to be ok in life. Yes its true many relationships create more harm and suffering for women than good but the simple fact is if they didn't need or want a relationship to begin with they wouldn't have gotten into an abusive relationships because the red flags would've been obvious enough to someone who isn't under the cruel spell of biology.

Anonymous 218540

>>218539
nta and i agree with you, but i do think that some people take the longing for a romantic relationship too far. killing yourself because youre single is borderline natural selection

Anonymous 218541

i dont think society cares about anyones wellbeing.

idk if youre from a western country or not but in my country lots of young men go into the meat grinder dying either as migrant workers, soldiers killed by terrorists, smugglers, or factory workers and construction workers and are never heard from again, they receive little to no attention when they die either, even if they were teenagers or virgins.

Women on the other hand are treated poorly here but there is generally more communal grief when we die and we tend to have more familial support for personal issues.

I don't think in the grand scheme of things that men view other men as fellow beings worth of empathy and sympathy to as great an extent that we do with other women which is why the world is the way it is.

Women's lives tend to be defined by a lot of the same issues globally (gender relations) whereas men are in constant often violent zero-sum competition with each other and dont have any common ground to stand on with other men. The greatest enemy of woman is man. And yet, men dont think about gender relations as much because the greatest enemy of man is also man, not woman.

Anonymous 218542

>>95318
women generally chose less violent and selfish methods with lower success rates, usually succeeding by the 3rd-4th. Men don't mind traumatising strangers by jumping in front of trains or off bridges. Women who choose violent methods of suicide are often reported as "accidental deaths" more than men because it's unusual. Likewise men who die in accidental drunken misadventures are often mistakenly recorded in the male suicide statistic. Male suicide is also associated with pride, loss of income and self imposed loneliness from lack of maturity, whereas women often commit suicide from having to deal with these deformed retards. Many male sex offenders rightfully choose suicide and i have no problem with that, while women kill themselves because of what has been inflicted upon them. Sickening that society has us coddling our oppressors.
Very annoying to me that nobody ever mentions these variables. tsk.

Anonymous 218543

Maybe men kill themselves 2 times more because they’re bad people



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