/b/ - Random

Talking to TRA's is like playing chess with a pigeon, they'll drop the chess pieces, shit on the board and then go back to the nest claiming they won.

>>221044
I'd say you're probably better off peaking normies who aren't super invested in TRA shit but just go along with it out of kindness.
The really staunch TRAs are often intellectually dishonest and often profiting in some way from spreading gender woo. You can't peak someone who's not honestly engaged in the argument.

In a weird way I kinda have and am doing it again. I am close with someone who has been surrounded by this shit for so long that they didn't even realise they hated it. I'm from outside their circle, so when I gave them a space where they were allowed to think independently and voice skepticism suddenly they became a lot more sensible with this shit. The one I'm working on now is someone I'm just annoying into admitting they're already peaked. They know its bullshit they just wont admit it, but they know that I know its bullshit so they let the mask slip half way off and I keep pulling them up on it

The easiest way is to start with a discussion on gender and how it's not real and just stereotypes. Most reasonable people will agree that women can be ' masculine ' and men can be ' feminine '
After than you can go into how trans ideology is rooted in stereotypes too.
Another point worth bringing up is how somehow for some reason a disproportionate amount of trans identifying people are autistic.
Hmm the people who have a hard time picking up on social cues and expectations have a hard time preforming the gender stereotypes expected of them and consider themselves othered from their sex? I wonder why.

A hypothetical multistep process, that I have never tested.
1. FtMs as ultramarginalized, forgotten transgenders. Point out that the transgender suicide stats are heavily skewed because of FtMs, not MtFs, yet FtMs receive nearly none of the support and have nearly none of the defensive social communities and psychiatric infrastructure available to MtFs. This may be difficult, as most TRAs are libfems and accept FtMs as full men and so might react adversarially to something that sounds like MRA talking points, so one should liberally season this point with the phrase "toxic masculinity"–hopefully this won't require strict adherence to the actual sociological concept since I'm not 100% clear on the whats, whys and wherefores for toxic masculinity in anything other than youtube video essays about slashfic. Just a slow, steady drip drip drip of the importance of transmen.
2. The mistreatment, disrespect and harassment that Buck Angel has received from more virulent TRAs. "His courage did so much for them and they try to silence him for saying he's not psychologically identical to a natal male? He's got gray in his beard, he's lived as a man longer than your dad has, he's earned the right to voice some of the concerns that nearly every transman struggles with because being unable to talk about their struggle is marginalization."
3. The mistreatment and abuse to which detrans are subjected, since detrans are normally former FtMs this should be a phrased as subjecting a targeted detrans as a double abjection, an injustice both against transmen (so valid uwu) and a way to harm a woman to the approval of society. "Want to try to formalize an argument that we will only be secure in the validity of trans individuals if we can accept and comprehend that it is possible to be wrong about being trans, the same way we socially accept that some women were wrong about being heterosexual despite generally accepting as a society that lesbians were born that way.
4. Disproportionately vengeful toxicity directed towards FtMs and detrans FtMs from MtFs, seems like in mentally recognizing passing FtMs as male the MtFs begin engaging in toxic masculinity…
5. MtFs behaving as the upper, dominant social echelon of transsociety just as gay men claim some vanguard rights in LGB community and as men claim dynamic and dominant position in normal society… almost as if…

I think for some of them to peak trans they have to peak scrote first. As a teenager I didn't know much about scrotes. It didn't occur to me how drastically the crime rate differs between the sexes and how far scrotes with a fetish are willing to go to satisfy it. By 18 I learned about all that and peaked trans. That's why TRAs make dumb statements like "no man would go through changing gender to assault women". They think scrotes are just like women.

>>221047
This tbh, talking to a TRA was such a frustrating experience because they never really refute any claim, they just avoid doing it. They do not even try to define words like I tried my hardest to, they just refuse the conversation and simply reply with some vague argument that doesn't grasp any concrete definition and then call you the asshole for not accepting troons. It's sickening, especially the fact that they take so long to reply meaning they're using their mental gymnastics at full capacity. The one TRA i talked to (who was also a moid, clown moment) outright admitted at some point that we do not need clear definitions to be tranny supporting. Like duh, I knew that already. Gosh I get so enraged even thinking about it. He said "I understand that as a cis woman it can be frustrating to see transwomen enter your movement [feminism]", I hate moids so much. They know the damage they're doing! No matter how "leftist" a moid is. It doesn't matter. They prefer to lick the asses of their fellow men than actually care about women's rights (Yeah, I know, what a shocker right?)
Don't waste time peaking male TRAs, female TRAs will be peaked if they hang out around TiMs enough (or even TiFs, that's what happened to me. I peaked hard after seeing how deranged my TiF bestfriend became. The trick is to not consider yourself trans so that you don't get sucked into their troonerie).
Normies are the best bet when it comes to peaking. I hate how TRAs don't even want to engage in the conversation and then claim that we're somehow the ones that shut the conversation down.

>>221053
1. If sex and gender are different, gender is based on stereotypes ans societally created roles mainly meant to oppress women. These roles are perpetuated by trans people who believe that because they fall into different steretypes they must allign with a different identity. Instead of working to rebel and abolish oppressive stereotypes, they are complicit in perpetuating them by identifying with the opposite gender because they fit into different stereotypes. To abolish them is to deny them, not identify with them, and they should be abolished because they are a means on which people are oppressed.
2. If sex and gender are different and when someone is transgender it merely refers to their gender identity, then why do they feel entitled to things protected under SEX such as bathroom access and sports. Why is it phrased "Male to female" and "female to male" when those terms are used to denote sex and not gender, shouldn't it be "male to woman" and "female to man" why do they alter their bodies in am attempt to identify with the opposite SEX
3. Why is this mutilation not treated any differently than other self harming behaviors driven by body issues such as anorexia, bullimia, body dysmorphic disorder. When someone has body dysmorphic disorder or anorexia the solution is not to encourage plastic surgery or starvation, it is to help people grow and be comfortable with who they already are.
4. Because gender is based on oppressive stereotypes and does not exist, all that exists is sex. One can not transition to something that does not exist, and it is impossible for a male to emulate womanhood. A male emulates womanhood based on oppressive stereotypes such as fashion, submissiveness, nurturing, makeup. However females are born in all different personalities and opinions and styles and this is a crude stereotype made as an attempt to oppress women, so to identify with it as a gender is to perperuate oppression. Womanhood, FEMALEhood is all that exists, and it is based on our biology which was determined the moment of our conception which we have lived our whole lives and which has shaped our formative experiences and the ways we interact with the world, and trans identifying males will never identify with real womanhood, concrete womanhood, not cheap abstract stereotypes which were created to oppress females. Stereotypes their transness perpetuates.

If trannies want to play pretend, it's gross, but whatever. If it means some smelly looser moid is dating him rather than harassing real women, then that's 2 gross moids we don't have to deal with as much, so it's kind of a win? Even if it's gross.

Of course, if we're talking about MtF who consider themselves ""lesbians"", well, now we have a fucking problem.

TRAs dont believe gender is based on stereotypes, they think its based on "experiential conscience" and "feeling like a woman". theres no way to define this without defining consciousness itself, thus this is why TRAs always avoid arguments.

the only reason they believe in trannyism is because of an instinctive feeling (that gender is a type of experience based in consciousness). so in order to argue with TRAs, you need to argue against this instinct.