/b/ - Random

>>229259
The exception never makes the rule

Now, if a male from birth has been immune to testosterone and their development right from the start has been female, and they have been socialized and perceived as female, they are still technically male. They don't have ovaries or anything, and they still have testicles, but you could call them a woman. But that is a far stretch to justify a mtf tranny's delusion. A mtf tranny is a man. They do not have that condition, it is not even remotely comparable

>>229259
its used as fanfiction, its fuckng retarded trannies should kfc themselves

Obviously intersex people dont justify being trans, but to add onto that, arent intersex people usually women with an abnormally large clitoris that looks like a dick? And then the rest just functions a woman? I really dont understand how that equates to trannyness in troon eyes. I really dont.

>>229266
intersex can be a bunch of stuff. What your describing is macroclit and I don't think that qualifies. Sometimes they will be born with both or like a man will have a uterus.
They always go "there aren't 2 genders! What about the 1% of the population with a rare genetic disorder?? What about me who has no disorder, surely this justifies my self mutilation and my crude blackface of womanhood! Checkmate terf!"

Basically this image.

Intersex is a disorder. Plus afaik even intersex people are either male of female in the end, but with an abnormality in the formation of their genitals. It's not some kind of magical fantasy new gender. I remember hearing about how some intersex people were tired of being lumped in with troonies because they consider their struggle to be different.

>>229259
Honestly, I feel bad for intersex people having their condition hijacked by mentally ill men in fetishes. I'm not someone who is intersex but have noticed the trend of TikTokers jumping onto that and other conditions like Autism or Tourettes just to feel special. Bet they'd do this for cancer too if they could, except cancer isn't as easily faked.

>>229259
So many people don't understand what intersex actually is and troons are the worst offenders. An intersexed person is someone with a disorder that causes their sexual features to develop atypicaly. Some might have a chromosome disorder giving them an extra x or y, but they are still either male or female. A woman born without a uterus would be considered intersexed, for example. They aren't some magical unicorns with both dicks and vaginas who can impregnate themselves and smash the sex binary, as troons seem to think. You either have a y chromosome or you don't.

"Intersex" is an umbrella term for different conditions, but despite what troons tell you, people with these conditions are always either male or female (as determined by which gamete their reproductive system developed to produce, even if doesn't produce any). Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome is the only condition that results in phenotypically female people who are genetically male. Troons love to cite this condition to validate their delusions, but really only the complete form results in a female phenotype and it is extremely rare. Incomplete AIS is much more common, and those are undoubtedly male. Obviously, neither form of AIS has anything to do with troondom, since these people were never exposed/exposed very little to androgens since before birth (in CAIS they may even develop a vaginal canal), unlike troons who had a complete male fetal development, which can never be changed.
What do I think of people with CAIS? They are male, since they lack any of the machinery to produce the female gametes. However, being ACTUALLY phenotypically female (ie no action of androgens during fetal development) I think they should be seen as women and treated as such. Really, in many cases they don't even know they have the disease until they do an ultrasound and find no uterus.

that's strange. if someone is born with XY, but is socialized and feminized hormonally to the point where they have female psychology and female phenotypical features (despite having a Y chromsomes)… i'd say they're justified in calling themselves women.

human brains aren't structurally feminized/masculanized, but are hormonally. so, therefore, if someone has a brain that reflects female psychology (which troons don't and never do), then i can't help but see them as women, despite them having Y chromosomes.

it doesn't justify "transgenderism", and actively disproves it since the ways in which AIS are feminized through responses in the brain (pariental lobe, sexual systems), can't even seen in trannies. on top of this, the fact that AIS males can happily exist as men or women, disproves that gender dysphoria exists.

it suggests that AGP/AAP mental illness goes in the direction of being a type of BIID (body integrity identity disorder), not some inexplicable existence of gender. trannies are the same as people who want to cut their legs off or become unicorns, and unlike AIS, should be treated as such.

>>229495
>that's strange. if someone is born with XY, but is socialized and feminized hormonally to the point where they have female psychology and female phenotypical features (despite having a Y chromsomes)… i'd say they're justified in calling themselves women.
David Reimer case says otherwise.

>>229495
This isn't true though. Our brain structures are more then just hormones. The whole reason we produce estrogen is because our brains tell our bodies to do this. Males will always anger faster and project their rage outward rather than inward, hence why they blame women for all their problems. They're also always going to be the rapist sex, which is why the pattern of men raping women exists in all countries around the world.

>>229548
low iq response. David Reimer was a force-trooned kid, not a male with AIS.

>>229552
what you're describing is a hormonal effect on the brain.

A person's medical disorder/disability is not an excuse for some dude to play dress up as a woman and get fake tits.

>>229495
I would agree. I was reading about CAIS yesterday and apparently a lot who have it don't even realize until they hit puberty and never get their period. Their bodies also turn the testosterone produced into estrogen, which is why they develop as phenotypically female. I'd personally consider them women, despite XY. Intersex conditions are sex-determined, meaning that a condition will always only apply to males or only apply to females. In my opinion, the only exceptions are true hermaphroditism (of which there's only 500 cases globally in the last century) and CAIS for the reasons above. Trannies don't seem to understand that the 99.99999% of intersex people can be reliably considered male or female, and that exceptions to a rule doesn't invalidate the biological reality of two sexes.

>>229587
also samefagging because I forgot to add, but with CAIS not only are they completely phenotypically women and their bodies convert testosterone to estrogen, but they are also fully raised and socialized as female. They never have and never will experience life as a man, trannies need to realize this and stop using them as some sort of gotcha. They're not castrated men and they cannot relate in any way to males who watched too much anime loli diaper porn

Klinefelter syndrome is another intersex condition, although it is sometimes not considered an intersex condition. Klinefelter is when someone has the XXY genotype. Meaning they basically have the genes of both a woman and a man. They typically develop and present as very effeminate men, tiny weiners, no muscle mass, with other side effects. It is typically treated with testosterone to help them fully masculinize.

However, before the modern explosion in troonery in the 2000s, a lot of klinefelter males decided that they'd rather present as female, and those were some of the first trannies. That doesn't mean all trannies before 2000 had Klinefelters of course, fetishistic coomers gonna coom. But a few noteworthy trannies were.

Here's an example of this, the XXXY "male" who became a Bond Girl (XXXY being an even more extreme version of Klinefelter)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey

The article describes her as Trans, but I would make the argument that she is legitimately intersex due to her medical condition - and simply chose to live as a female.

>>229619
Doesn't having a y chromosome automatically make someone male no matter how many x chromosome they have?

>>229620
Yes. The Y chromosome is the switch for male development basically, but there are conditions that cause men with XY to potentially develop entirely phenotypically female or somewhat feminine as in the case of XXY syndrome.
I believe those with XXY and XXXY syndrome really are male because they have penises andlae traits just "feminized" and they were treated as male growing up. Symptoms can be so subtle they dont even know they have the abnormality. However in cases of CAIS I do believe that they deserve to be treated as women and are functionally women even if genetically male

>>229619
Just a note to point out people with Klinefelter's syndrom are unmistakenly male. They don't really have the genes for both "male and female". In human biology it doesn't really matter how many X chromosomes you have, as long as there is a functioning Y (or more specifically a SRY gene), then you will be a male. Men with Klinefelter tend to have gynecomastia, small penises/testes and a more feminized fat distribution, but they would never be confused for females.

>>229620
That's definitional. Is Caroline Cossey a man? Are CAIS women men? All of these people have the SRY gene. None of them can father children, ever. Even true hermaphrodites have the SRY gene, even though it might be a genetic mosaic.

>>229622
There's also XYY and XXX and both conditions have (comparably mild) effects but generally do not impair fertility, while XXY usually does kill fertility. Another one of those chromosomal mishaps is X0 (Turner syndrome) in women which also impairs fertility.

Klinefelter syndrome affects about 1 in 1000 boys, while PAIS is 1:20'000 and CAIS 1:100'000 so there are a lot more Klinefelter boys than there are CAIS women. The same is true for the other chromosomal aberrations, XXX and X0 as well as XYY are far more common than AIS.

>>229664
> people with Klinefelter's syndrom are unmistakenly male
They are also unmistakably Klinefelter, as are Turner women unmistakably Turner women, at least once you are familiar with the symptomology. You could also, just as legitimately say, Klinefelter males aren't real males, they are feminine and infertile, they are somewhere in between men and women.

I am not saying you have to accept these as women, I am merely pointing out they have a legitimate claim when they say they are not males, even though a superficial inspection might suggest they are.

With CAIS, not even a superficial inspection would reveal them as anything other than female.

Most other intersex conditions can be summed up as "weird/malformed genitals" in otherwise typical-presenting males or females. That can be a girl with an enlarged clit that passes as a dick, or a boy where the penis didn't normally form and so there are labia and internal testes (i.e. ovaries that do not produce eggs nor sperm).

Another example of an "intersex condition" that I don't consider an intersex condition (as opposed to Klinefelter, which I do consider as an intersex condition but often isn't considered one, for afore mentioned reasons) is adrenal hyperplasia, what results in women that are a bit more manly than average. But still fertile, just less so.

There is a gradient, some people are just more one thing or the other thing, and so you do have normal people who are more like their cross-sex stereotype. Effeminate men, butch women and vice versa. The cutoff for me is where they naturally can have children. XXY males are naturally sterile (or like 99% sterile) while adrenal hyperplasia-women have something like 60% the fertility of normal, and they have to be fertile because the condition is fundamentally inheritable, which chromosomal aberrations aren't.

If you can't have children because of how you were born, maybe without a dick or without a womb, and you feel like you'd have a better time as the gender than what you were assigned with I can accept that. Because nobody can say with any degree of certainty that you are that sex that you were assigned at birth. Because sex is a part of reproduction, and without reproduction, there is no real meaning to the sex.

But that's a far cry from perfectly normal healthy specimens what could reproduce as their birth sex, rendering themselves infertile and disfigured because of retarded coomer fantasies. They do not become the other sex, they become sexless instead.

Intersex people: Get born with opposite sex genitalia

Troons: Chop off their own genitalia and get a bunch of Frankenstein surgery to get opposite sex genitalia.

Intersex is much more rarer than troonism and I think most intersex just want to live as the sex that makes the closest sense, which is why you almost never hear about them.