/b/ - Random

I think they're cute but I just personally like their aesthetic. Not for me though. Scrotes make fun of them but thats my freaking dream girl……

>>236003
well with that opinion you definitely have a lot in common with redditbros who think any woman with a strange hobby/interest is repulsive

what do you feel makes them cringe nona?

>>236012
nta but shit doesn't exist. magic ain't real. they should call it a fandom.

>>236013
do you feel the same way about christianity, islam etc?

I'm into Thelema and I don't find it cringe at all, maybe apart from the online community filled with neckbeard larpers. Still better than most hippie-dippy New Age/neopagan beliefs. To be honest I don't find any form of spirituality "cringe" per se

Life without a little cringe is boring

do you believe in magic?

>>236018
if wish this vn was more gory

>>236014
somewhat. the big religions are being useful by creating social structures and organized ideologies at least. this "magic" thing is just kids playing.

>>236061
So you feel more ok with a situation when it done with men with power and a desire to control than when everyday women do it, then that's cringe, even when fundamentally they are the same thing.
I mean I get you nona, I'd be lying if I said didn't feel the same way but it's important to analyze our thoughts and feelings to fully comprehend the reasons behind it and what are influencing it.

Men are worse about it.
It's not even close.
Occult philosophy is just dumb spiritualism for dumb pseuds who are too misanthropic/anti social for real religion and too narcissistic and performative to just embrace secularism.
Crowley and Levays writings are so fucking petulant and worthless.
>>236014
Christianity and Islam, while archaic and destructive, were actual institutions that built communities and commanded culture. Occult shit is just another form of dumb garbage for people who need to believe in some sort of narrative where they're the free thinker and the people who don't are "The NPCs".
I hate Christianity and Islam but that's an inactive comparison.

>>236135
*invalid comparison.

>>236003
they are and people hating on them are even cringier

>>236063
>So you feel more ok with a situation when it done with men with power and a desire to control than when everyday women do it
Idgaf who does it. Religions bear fruit, "witch aesthetics" do not. What's worse, many girls actually believe in the occult. They don't do it for power or money, they just waste their time.

>>236135
>another form of dumb garbage for people who need to believe in some sort of narrative
im shortening this, but is this not what christianity and islam originally was either? if occultism was given enough space to develop, it wouldve turned into an organized religion like both, with its own constituions and culture to justify. you can swap the effect they had compared to the other, because theyre functionally the same, so the comparison is still relevant.

>>236153
>Religion bears fruit, "witch aesthetics" do not
explain to me what "fruit" you get out of religion that you cant get from "witch aesthetics". forgive me for being an athiest faggot, but i dont see any sky god dropping fortune and magical abilities on to their followers. and if youre arguing that religion gives you literal wealth and power then theres no such thing nowadays (especially not if youre a woman, wtf are you talking about).

>>236162
>this, but is this not what christianity and islam originally was either?
No, that's not what they started as at all. Have you ever set foot in a history class?
Did you miss the part where the figureheads of those religions actually lead people through wartime and crisis?
>if occultism was given enough space to develop, it wouldve turned into an organized religion like both with its own constituions and culture to justify.
No it wouldn't have because as a school of thought it's antithetical to things like organization. It's leaders literally exist to to rationalize hedonism.

>>236162
>explain to me what "fruit" you get out of religion that you cant get from "witch aesthetics".
Institutions, money, influence, hierarchies and social structures.
>forgive me for being an athiest faggot, but i dont see any sky god dropping fortune and magical abilities on to their followers.
Your first mistake is thinking that the people who participate in religion do it because they believe in god or expect "magical abilities".
>and if youre arguing that religion gives you literal wealth and power then theres no such thing nowadays
Oh you sweet summer child. If we talk about the West, I guess money laundering schemes are supposed to stay out of the public eye. If we talk the East, even the most basic knowledge is enough to know religion does give you power.
>(especially not if youre a woman, wtf are you talking about).
Go become the female Muhammad if you want. Unless you have those ready to lie and die, build and control, turn their lives around, preach and proselytize in the name of witch aesthetics, witch aesthetics ain't it. They lack the essential elements that would make them viable as a religion.

Yes. Every spiritual believer is stupid.

Most witches seem to believe they can do whatever they please without consequence.
>Love spell? Sure, what's free will?
>Curse someone, why not? They hurt my feels
It's like they think karma doesn't apply to magic(k)

>>236163
>Most religions have a solid logical structure to their "lore"
they actually do not, one of the most obvious ones:
>you are forbidden from taking any harmful drugs
psychotropics are forbidden as intoxicants, which is as loosely defined in a similar way to how it is a legal system. whether or not the metabolism of a molecule actually causes any harm is irrelevant, it's a vague ruling of "clouding the mind" which is applied to mean an altered state of any kind, except not really because it's just the taboo ones. most arabs and seasians will smoke tobacco, africans will chew khat, westerners will drink alcohol, etc. none of them will recognize that capsaicinoids are a psychotropic "intoxicant" and ban them. in fact, many will argue until they are blue in the face with cope about how these things aren't actually intoxicants which induce altered states, despite never actually being able to construct a non-contradictory definition which includes the things they have a taboo against and the things they don't.

The prophet of Thelema was a shit-eating nonce. That's all you have to know about it.

Crowley was also deeply misogynistic.

>>236018
>>236055
What vn is this from?

What I don't get is how women follow Thelema/idolized Crowley, a man that tried to normalize rape, pedophilia, coprophagia and child sacrifice.

>>236734
occultism requires low critical thinking skills

Honestly I hate it because when you’re a scizo and all you can think about is someone coming after you and some dumb ass says ‘you manifest what ever you think about’ it makes me wanna tear their eyes out

>>236003
I have been studying the occult for a few years now (only a few years) and I have to pontificate on this…
A man (Stephen Flowers) who studied OCCULTISM as an ACADEMIC and earned a PHD on studiny literally things that ARE NOT REAL wrote this book "Lords of the Left-Hand Path."

I read it out of naivete and an interest in the occult and it was THE book that awakened me to the fact that the men who are interested in the occult are very likely to view women as expendable resources like reagents for a potion.

I studied alchemy in tandem and in alchemy, there is a desire to create a "homonculus", which is created WITHOUT the intervention of females.

From one side (Christianity) to the otehr (anything occultish) everything is created to capture women's power before a woman overpowers a man.

>>236300
Crowley was a faggot who wanted to control women so badly he started eating the shit of other men.

I randomly found this chick on Telegram and realised she wears lolita. She's pretty psycho, not to mention ita.

>>248941
>Telegram
>lolita
it's probably an AI generated persona

>>236003
This sounds like a fucking moid shit wrote it.

>>236165
>>236013
>>236061
>>236153
>>236170

All written by moid shits who crave power structures domination and hierarchies.

>>248951
Actually this thread is full of a lot of pissing and moaning moids.

The occult is what you make it. It isn't owing to one gender or another. Did moid shits take part in it, contribute to it, and ruin it? Yes but moid shits ruin everything. Big surprise there. At least it's not christofascism.

>>248939
Ive noticed something similar. Male-brained religions seem to be to be born from the male's womb envy: that he is the passive element in creation while women are the active element. This statement will seem reversed to us because we have been raised under male religions that attempt to deny or obscure this fact. eg. eve coming from adam's rib rather than the other way around, the world being created by a male god (not birthed by a female god). This leads to a culture of patriarchal values backed up with religious fervor. But, of course, it is a lie invented by males to achieve power over our reproduction. Women would have rebelled against this system earlier if it were not for the belief that a male god made us inferior to men.

It is completely necessary to rework this religious lie into religious truth. Simply becoming an atheist does not fix this problem, since it doesn't fully reverse the programming that male religion does to you. It is necessary to reprogram a female-centric religion. This occasionally happens organically due to the psychological need for female divinity: eg Mary worship in the catholic church, folk beliefs which are either put up with or shunned as witchcraft, the current shift away from abrahamism. However, this has to be done purposefully for the express purpose of liberating the female mind at a subconscious level from patriarchal religions. reclaiming witchcraft is a start. Males have taken over mainstream wicca, so I wouldn't consider this a good alternative for women, though it works well for males. Dianic wicca is a better option for women.

The males (or male brainwashed women) itt understand male imposed hierarchy as seen in abrahamic church structures as being the only culture building, 'valid' religious structure. This is simply part of the male brained programming that defaults to the authority of the moid above you instead of relying on individual free will. female-oriented structures are more like the old covens and ancient temples: a small community oriented group in which most are equal except for the few with spiritual gifts which give knowledge rather than force their way into power. This can be seen in history looking at witch's covens or at a grander scale at temples like those of the Pythia (before the cult of Apollo took it over). Women naturally create community, but men naturally create hierarchy. This is the bottom line and why we should encourage this development toward female religion.

Yeah, a little. It's not really for me, but as long as they're not hurting anyone or anything with it then it's as "cringe" as any other thing of the sort.

>>248967
>all of this but that first paragraph in particular
Absolutely. They can't stand the idea that they're not as amazing and important as they think they are in the longterm, so they have to create stories to prop up their ego and then enforce them through violence. Men are the good boys, and women are evil corruptors because men feel horny but can do no wrong and so are never at fault. And so you have patriarchal religious ideal. They can only feel better if they convince themselves that we're just inferior men instead of… women, with our own strengths and set of standards.

One of those reasons being that they're bigger and so have more teeth, apparently…? Pic related, some of the more celebrated scrote philosophers actually think something they do in their sleep to dampen their sheets is the "more important reproductive role" over growing, carrying, birthing, caring for, cleaning up, and feeding the child from its conception through its early years to ensure the reproduction is actually a success. This isn't even touching complications that can kill women during childbirth or months afterward due to problems it can cause. But apparently something men do for risk-free fun right into decrepitude is more important. It's pure, desperate seething. Both are needed but come on, be realistic.

A lot of the most popular religions revolve around these ideas of men > women, and more than they would care to admit have a great preoccupation with wieners and making inferior anyone that doesn't have one since that's what men care about. Absolutely anything to wrangle power and acknowledgement from women so men can control everything and take all the credit for all good things. Hardly any wonder women frequently don't find much appeal, and often diverge when allowed to choose their own way/bypass conditioning. Going with something where you actually have some power and people aren't actively shitting on you naturally ends up appealing, and Wicca is one of those. If you want to find something just as "cringe", look no further than the nearest guy in a priest robe carrying a shiny stick around.

>>248952
>Did moidshits ruin the horrible depraved culture that they created and was awful from the very beginning? Yes.
just stop.

>>248967
This is the most idiotic attempt at a refutation I've ever read.
It's not "moid brain washing" to acknowledge that institutional legitimacy stems from… a fucking institution. Nobody said that they necessitate a moid heirarchy. But they do have to actually command a civilization and its culture. Abrahamic religions did that for millennia, Occultism never even had a pathetic failed attempt, much less a successful one.
Secular anti-religious pushback has also had exponentially more success than anything Occultists or satanists have ever done so it's incredibly rich to say "atheism isn't enough"

>>248995
>This is the most idiotic attempt at a refutation I've ever read.
im just agreeing with the nona I responded to lol relax

I think your issue is a semantic one. Occultism is any 'hidden' metaphysical belief. For example, the occult side of Judaism is Cabala. occultism is not necessarily equivalent to thelema and satanism. Due to the way certain people use the word 'occult' to mean 'anything that doesnt fit in with my religion', the umbrella term 'occult' has picked up a lot of beliefs that are diverse, even opposed to each other. It is necessary for women to delve into 'occult' beliefs because mainstream beliefs are demonstrably anti-woman. This doesn't mean that these beliefs should include thelema, satanism, or other male-brained occult beliefs. Instead, that we need to embrace philosophical or metaphysical truths that leave us (women) in a better psychological state.
>Secular anti-religious pushback has also had exponentially more success than anything Occultists or satanists have ever done so it's incredibly rich to say "atheism isn't enough"
I'm not saying atheism is pointless, Im saying its not enough to reverse the psychological programming a male religion does to women. The subconscious is not rational, so it does not respond to rational arguments (like atheism). It needs irrational, emotional, religious programming. So for the psychological/cultural battlefield, atheism is not enough.

>Occultism never even had a pathetic failed attempt, much less a successful one.
That's debatable. The US was built by freemasons, for example (george washington was a mason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Masonic_National_Memorial). By definition, occult power structures would be hidden, so they would be difficult to document. You're never going to find "My super secret society's guide on how we command an entire civilization muahahaha".

If witchcraft were to make a true non-commercialized revival in the west, it would help women create small woman-centric communities, like those the church was so terrified of that they set off the medieval witch hunts. even if it's cringe, how could this be a bad thing?

>>248974
Right. and even beyond reproduction (I only emphasize it because males emphasize their weiners as their source of superiority), women are better collaborators and contributors to society at large, even when men subjugate us. Males are so emotionally stunted because so much of their energy goes into cognitive dissonance: their madonna/whore complex, their superiority comes from being rational/their physical ability to irrationally destroy, women are evil seductresses/ men are horny apes, etc. They hold two conflicting ideas simultaneously which makes them emotionally unstable.

>If you want to find something just as "cringe", look no further than the nearest guy in a priest robe carrying a shiny stick around.
Youre right. cringe is relative. cringe + time = tradition lol.

I guess that's a good thread to ask for advice considering you anons have something to say about religion and women's role with spirituality.
I consider baptizing for various of reasons but I can't stand Christianity's view on women.
I know Mary plays a big role in Christian belief and women always played a big role in more personal worship that is somewhat disconnected from the church.
But I live in Eastern Euro country so I consider visiting an Orthodox church. And I can't stand it. I hate that all holy texts were written by men, that all priests are men and even God himself is male. I don't bother listening to men at all and hate when they lecture me. It's has nothing to do with my feminist and misandrist views and more with the fact that all my mentor figures, friends and just people I respect are women. I value women's advice more in my life and all the smartest people who helped me improve and taught me valuable life lessons are women. I look up to successful women in my life. I can't stand going to a place build for men by men, listen to a man read from a book written by another man about their male God. And to add, I need to cover my head and wear a long dress that would cover me from head to toe. Men, of course, don't cover their heads. Why? I don't wear clothes that show too much skin anyway but I wouldn't wear a stupid hijab-lite because a man told me so.
But I still consider going to a church because reasons. Again, I'm really not sure about Christianity and if I should get baptized at all. I guess I believe in some sort of god and have a need for spirituality and community.

>>249003
You can approach Christianity without being in a church or temple. You can see from your own words that the issue isn't the religion itself at its core, but the culture that is upheld by those who pretend to control its wisdom. How can there be hundreds Christian sects when Christ only died a little more than a millenia ago? Why must these sects constantly fight over whose interpretation of his message is the 'correct' one? How did the Christian world create the image that the Abrahamic God is a bloodthirsty, angry deity? This is something that I appreciate about occultism because in the search for truth there is no "correct" way to obtain that truth, for you see, the truth is never hidden. It is in the search for the truth and the human experience that the truth is revealed to us. Those in power do their best to keep that truth away from us by trying to monopolize it and control access to it. They say you are wrong for wanting to live and to beg, and that you should give up everything to serve a god of their invention in a place where they have control.

I think most people are comfortable in their religion because it is what they grew up with and perhaps has been a part of their family going back for generations. Lost souls who never had that are not satisfied with a dogma, with rules or traditions that are not even close to the source of the teachings that have been changed, bastardized and misinterpreted in countless ways to fit the current social and economic needs of the elite of that religion.

You have the power to decide for yourself what is right and wrong. You don't need permission. The gate is open, you need only walk through.

>>249003
Maybe read the books on your own to see if any of it resonates with you. The new testament does feature women in a prominent role, but imo christianity in general has misogynistic bias that cannot be easily remedied. You may also have some luck reading heretical texts. Some of the books from the Nag Hammadi library had a more feminist bent (for books written ~2000 years ago lol). When I first read the version of genesis in the Nag Hammadi library I realized that I had been lied to all my life.
What religion existed in your area before christianity? Sometimes the area's original religion is not so misogynistic, and has more context for where you live. Any women's folk traditions in your area you could look into? Christianity sometimes destroys these, but they usually have a way of staying alive and hidden. Playing pseudo-historian and trying to piece together ancient woman-centric religions has been helpful for me, so it may be helpful for you too.
Pro-woman religion has been attacked for so long by males that you'll have to look very hard to find spiritual truth. Look to history, look to nature. Keep in mind that women's spiritual liberation has been attacked by the church for millenia, you may face opposition.
>I know Mary plays a big role in Christian belief and women always played a big role in more personal worship that is somewhat disconnected from the church.
Where I live, the primary female goddess was absorbed into the christian mary figure and other female saints. The personal worship that women do in your area may be the vestiges of pro-woman religion.

super cringe, makes all of us look tismo asf

>>249003
Isn't God on itself seen as a genderless being in abrahamic religions, just referrered to as male?

>>249043
No. In my life experience, God is insisted upon being male. Men insist He is.
Viewing God as genderless is heretical because it devalues the importance men feel over their desire to dominate and control everything. Despite what LGBT pastors and preachers try to say. The view that God is genderless, having male and female aspects, is something you see more often in mysticism and Kabbalah. These texts can be ancient, but they are not utilized because they are even more ambiguous and confusing than the bible (which most people don't even read anyway).

>>249054
To add on, I view every church and temple as its own little cult. This is what all communities are: cults. They can and do serve communities in positive ways but if you've ever hopped from church to church, you know there is some barrier of entry before actually being accepted. Rituals, attending specific social events, being friends with X person, dressing nice but not too nice, etc.
Consider that most churches survive because of charity. Crazy as it sounds, this is true about things like a streamer or youtuber. The church leader needs to sell content that people will not only come back for, but pay for as well. The motivation is no longer faith itself but survival via Mammon.

>>249054
Catholic canon is that God the Son Jesus Christ is a man with male pronouns and God the Father is a dad in relation to the Son and also to Christians who become children of God, and at the same time He also transcends mere human notions of what maleness and femaleness are because God is perfection.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm#239

>>249083
And yet despite this people still call him male and depict him as male for some reason.

>>249043
>You can approach Christianity without being in a church or temple.
You "can" and there are plenty of people who claim to do so but the problem is that that becomes either A. larp if you're younger because you're not involved in any actual community to lean on and ground yourself in the faith or B. faulty understanding of your faith that just conforms to whatever you personally want if you're older because you're just leaning on what you were raised in and like instead of actively involving yourself in the world and broadening your perspective. Without community it just become opinion, and there's enough of that in the world.

>>249043
>>249054
Harping on the "gender" of God, misses the point entirely because God is invisible (in that God isn't an idol, not finite but limitless). You cannot "see" God, and both Adam and Eve were "made in God's image" so fixating on gender to such a degree really just misses the point because God has domain over pretty much everything.

>>249108
If you force yourself to go to a church full of hypocrites who use their faith as a costume accessory, you're doing yourself worse than staying home and reading your bible, C.S. Lewis, Thomas Aquinas, William Blake, and Hermetica.

>>249135
Actually, now that I say that, go to church full of hypocrites. Go see how people abuse each other and then hide the crimes from the public in order to save face for their little empire of vanity. It actually does wonders for faith.

it honestly makes me cringe but ill always support women's weird hobbies. i'm confused when it's presented as a healthy alternative to male religion since they constantly harp on about divine sacred femininity, sex magick or whatever. it's still a fun subject to study, just not as much as more established faiths since there is less material (centuries-long autistic debates about the meaning of x or y).

>>249108
or C you experience and meditate on it through art or craft.