Seperating the art from the artist Anonymous 256370
Do you watch, read or listen to anything made by people who've [allegedly or actually] abused, raped or sexually harassed others?
It's very annoying when you find something you like, and then you read about them and find out that they're toxic people. Hollywood is full of toxic people and you have no idea who did what until someone opens up about it.
Yes and while it sucks if it was something I love, usually it doesn't deter my enjoyment of the art. It can recontextualize and ruin moments of a piece, for instance if a musician was found out to be a sex predator it can make songs featuring sexual content uncomfortable to listen to, Jimmy Urine and Mindless Self Indulgence come to mind here. But if the material is thematically devoiced from the behavior its easy to ignore.
You should always enjoy the art made not the artist themselves.
Melanie's music isn't good enough to ignore her SA allegations.
I do not listen to Melany's music but I never believed the allegations for some reason.
I find it very hard to ignore the artist actually. It's so frustrating that a lot of toxic people are actually successful, and ironically the ones who opened up and talked about their abuse are the ones that end up getting cancelled instead. A colossal rapist Roman Polanski not only makes a movie about sexual abuse and absconds the law, he even gets to participate in important film festivals as a judge, and that's the most confusing part, these people actually are very talented and create some extremely memorable works that it feels so bad every time I see their names it can be very triggering.>>256382
Lol, I just like sped up versions of her songs that I get to see on tiktoks. I don't know what's worse though, her SA allegations or how weird she looks now.
Old songs by chris brown, i don't care about him at all but the old songs are so nostalgic to me
Hey guys what about cancel culture
>half the thread is zoomers using examples 10-20 years before cancel culture
>melanie martinez is a industry plant social media tiktok algorithm person and was never designed to be relevant more than 2 years anyway and is just a front for money laundering
>implying any if you could name one real artist
The vast, VAST majority of people who are alleged to have abused people using their fame never deserved the position they were given (emphasized) to begin with. At this point, acting like a bad person in front of a camera is an easier way to build a following as an "entertainer" than actually displaying some sort of talent. No shit most of these people are awful in their private lives.
Just naming a few off my head but there are some extremely talented people like Michael Jackson, David Bowie, John Lennon or idk, Eric Clapton who are some of the most disgusting people I can think of.
That's the thing though, they don't act like they're bad people it comes as an extreme shock when someone opens up about them.
Depends. If the artist is simply an asshole or unlikable (but nothing worse than that), I can separate the art from the artist. If the artist is genuinely a POS (rapist or murderer)… No. Even if the art is good. I have limited time in the day (and also in life) and there is much more good art in the world. It could be the biggest masterpiece, I can live without it.
The accusations surrounding Jackson seem questionable. Though that is probably my own personal bias. I never, ever, ever trust a scrote who claims abuse, even if he's accusing another scrote.
Lennon was never particularly secret as an abuser, he always acted exactly like someone who would beat his wife up. The very first time his name appeared in print in the United States it was because he very nearly killed one of his own (male) friends, with his bare hands, in a fit of narcissistic rage. A scrote who is an obvious physically violent bully towards other scrotes will always be abusive to women down the line. The 'act like a good person' thing as far as it ever went with him was… writing songs about how he """used""" to beat up his girlfriends but got better and is totes changed now. I have no idea why he is ever cited as someone with a clean or nice image or outwardly harmless personality.
I think fame has a corrupting power, yes there are scumbags who rise in their respected industry, but I think spending time around awful people like in Hollywood increases your chance of becoming a terrible person.
There has yet to be something I loved so much I didn't immediately get the ick when learning that the artist/writer/actor does shit I don't like. It doesn't even have to be SA. Lately it's just been Zionists.
>>256576>implying any if you could name one real artist
František "Franta" Štorm
What do i win?
>>256576>implying any if you could name one real artist
I know, I know!
How about Joe R. Mama?
I still like all of Dan Schneider shows. Despite him being a weird foot pervert.
Not usually. If someone's just very annoying or whatever that doesn't bother me, but generally I find the idea of "liking the art, not the artist" troublesome. There are a few musicians/bands I can't ever listen to again, because I would feel disgusted in myself for doing so. It's giving tacit support for their actions, and unlike having to buy something from a massive horrible multinational I very much do have a choice in whether or not I engage with certain works of art.
erm btw if anyone knows the location of Claudio Palmieri, AKA, Ethan Kath, let me know I'd love to meet him!
I feel like the artist doesn't make money every time you engage with the piece unless it's an indie project by a small-time creator. With most movies or music the creator already got the money and it's the platform or studio that are instead earning the money.
I understand not want to buy band-tees from an underground artist, but with a main stream musician like OP listening to her song on YouTube or Spotify doesn't line her pockets.
This guy is such a monster omg. He absolutely ruined a lot of my comfort songs and made me give up on them by being a piece of smelly shit.
It's an old debate in French literature (see Proust vs Sainte-Beuve: Sainte-Beuve (a critic) believed that in order to understand an artist and his work, it was necessary to understand that artist's biography. Proust disagreed. They argued).
Imo, both are true in a way. You can enjoy art without thinking/knowing of the artist; and also you (maybe) can't enjoy it if you know the artist is an asshole. But why draw the limit at art? Can you enjoy your latest Nike shoes if you know they were made by slaves and you're paying their master?
The difference is knowing: once you know, and you partake, you're an accomplice.
Yet, thinking you ought to know in every case is a delusion of control/grandeur.
In the end, I accept the world is flawed, so am I, I deal with it on a case by case basis, and I admit everyone fucks up at some point.
It's really not about the money. I won't enjoy or even engage with something Marilyn Manson or Louis C.K. has made because of who they are and what they've done, even if on another level I know I'd enjoy their art. Who someone is, who they really are, colours their art and the idea that the two are seperate is complete nonsense to me. To me it's always sounded like an excuse by people who just don't want to stop listening to The Lost Prophets or whoever. There is room for maneuver when it comes to an actor who isn't the lead, or a session guitarist on a recording, or someone else with a tertiary role like that. However, when the, or one of the, main creative forces behind a piece of art is a comlpete villain I can't understand people who look the other way. I can't sit down for two hours put out of my mind who Klaus Kinski actually was and I don't want to either, because it's a kind of forgiveness on my part that he and the others haven't earned.>>256641
Same. My hated for him will be with me until the grave.
It's impossible for horrible people to create genuinely great art
>inb4 Roman Polanski or Woody Allen or whoever
I said genuinely great art
>>256821>I said genuinely great art
Any examples to describe what genuinely great art is?
I tried listening to red hot chilli peppers the other day but it was just too gross for me to enjoy anymore yk
Oh cool, just found out another moid that I thought is a cool guy because he wrote one of my favorite characters, Madame Psychosis, is a COLOSSAL piece of shit.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
did le televisionphobia man do?
what did DFW do?
I really enjoyed listening to his lectures. He seems gentle, honest, and compassionate. Little surprise that he offed himself
>>257895>>257900https://www.rachelgilson.com/blog-index/david-foster-wallace-worship-and-the-metoo-world>But in the case of Wallace, and of many others, that moth-like pull to light can blind to egregious offense. He is documented as a stalker and abuser of the woman he supposedly loved, writer Mary Karr. The things he did were terrifying—following her five-year-old home from school, throwing a coffee table at her, trying to buy a gun.
I can usually separate the art from the artist, but it's a lot harder for me to do if artist is a rapist or pedophile.
Rachel Gilson is some weird new age neotrad Christian proselytizer and pro-troon activist. I'm pretty sure that she, like many other fundies and trads (tranny lovers or not), took umbrage to DFW's views on worship and metanarrative.
Not saying it's not true, but this stuff is coming from a pretty dubious source
I had no idea who Gilson is, sorry.
This is the original source actually.https://lithub.com/the-last-essay-i-need-to-write-about-david-foster-wallace/>Three years later D.T. Max published his biography of Wallace, in which he divulged more shocking details about the relationship with Karr—that Wallace tried to buy a gun to kill her husband, that he tried to push her from a moving car—while also dropping enough details about Wallace’s sex life and professed attitudes toward women to make him sound like one of his own hideous men. Wallace called female fans at his readings “audience pussy”; wondered to Jonathan Franzen whether “his only purpose on earth was ‘to put my penis in as many vaginas as possible’”; picked up vulnerable women in his recovery groups; admitted to a “fetish for conquering young mothers,” like Orin in Infinite Jest; and “affected not to care that some of the women were his students.”
Honestly liking any art or creative endeavors by a man is setting yourself up for disappointment. Women get scruntized for the most benign of shit that when a women actually is a shitty person it's so overblown compared to the amount of horrific shit that men get away with. Not an example herself but people who trash JK Rowling to hell and back, when she was nothing but respectful in calling out fallacies in the TRA movement. A good example is in the punk community where I'm from, full of weirdo self-proclaimed trans mystics who worship someone like GG Allin, literal definition of scum, flea infested hedonism who raped and beat on girls/women. Or anyone who shits on Yoko Ono's bizarre behavior and idolizes John Lennon, despite being a deadbeat, wifebeater piece of shit
I can only think of one truly awful female author who I'd admired that sullied my taste in her work and that was Marion Zimmer Bradley. Despite that, I can't hate on all "problematic" female creators because I think they present something unique to the world in the form of female psychosis especially when it's leveled against the hivemind of men protecting men from any form of accountability.
I really like polanski's films but feel weird about consuming them knowing he's a pedo rapist who managed to get away before being put behind bars. All of hollywood is probably pedo rapists anyway but yeah it's crazy how such a bad person could make good films but yeah he's a truly vile person and this isn't some allegations either he actually did it and got away.
There's no perfect victim but the first wave of MeToo really turned out to have such imperfect victims that the only clear winners were the tabloids. Rose McGowan arguably causing but inarguably reacting callously to Jill Messick's suicide, the whole Asia Argento and underage boy situation. I know a lot of women turn understandably nasty after abuse but that's usually confined to being mean and short tempered and defensive, when the tabloids started documenting them as predatory the momentum of the movement broke. Makes you wonder if powerful men had decided in advance to orchestrate the whole thing and use those specific women as faces just so they could have a built in self destruct switch to flip the second their own goals were achieved.
If men are problematic, do you call it "male psychosis"? I think you're still feeding into the "crazy hysterical woman" stereotypes.
don't blink or you just might miss me.
daily reminder to never stan a moid. looking past anything beyond his face and movies is a cocktail for disaster. I again warn my sisters. sooo many celeb men ruined. rapist abuser pedophile sicko degenerates. they have unchecked sadistic amounts of power and are dripping with STDs. they are not worth your body, your sanity, or your soul.
Truman Show was one of my favorite movies, Liar Liar when I was a child. He was inspiring to me once, but has pixilated into a blur. maybe I hold grudges too long, it's okay to feel the way you do if you have trauma. if the celeb you like turns out to be a heinous creature it's fine to say you can't. people love to call women crazy but I completely understand and relate to those who can't diverge art and artist. when the artist hates women? By all means, hate away.
I just wanted to love. I don't want to hate. To be here is painful. I just wanted to forgive and forget. I was letting go, the gossip reels me back occasionally. Saw something about him having an underage victim after not seeing any rumors for awhile and poor girl wanting to come out. Exposé now. CDC mold spore deserves to be shoved under the jail if he out there abusing under 18s, and suciding 30 year olds. Under. the. jail. Get him.
Gradually back on Lamo. Things have improved. Justice for all his victims if anyone does come out. Never forget J!m C@rrey is an abuser. Don't let me trip someone's google alert.
I do listen to music artists who are alleged horrible people but what i do is i record or download it to my phone so i can listen to it without giving them money.