/b/ - Random

>>264745
this video made me physically cringe oh my god.

>>264748
If you cringe you are a "tourist"

>>264749
i don't see how being a tourist to the loli community is insulting to me.

>>264750
now that you say that…real
It's weird that they have to use this words to cope their weird pedophilia

The entirety of vtuber media is pedophilic, normal women wouldn't entertain it much less defend degenerate moids who get off on it.

You should not be given voting rights or financial agency if you watch this garbage.

>>264745
They know their audience and want a quick ladder to the cash. While I do agree with "if you don't like anime get the fuck out" the rest of it is performative at best. No vtuber girl seems legit to me because they never talk about ships/fanfic/doujins, which is weeb girl manna.

Independents are dependent on an established audience for capital since they can't build from established corporate capital. Corpos have different problems.

>>264753
>>264754
It's easy enough to say this stuff right now since AO3 is still up, and fujochan hasn't been soyjacked off the face of the internet. BUt in three to ten years you will not find even one single fujo pit that is not culturally dominated by Luxiem-inspired audio rp and moderated by twitterbrained nijisisters, and when those girls see us dismissing them as pedo enablers for liking anime ikemen they will wall up with genuine worst sorts, or enter the sphere as actual pedo enablers who think of themselves as just ordinary edge free speech enthusiasts. If women who are not from that space are not capable of steering within that space then we lose that space. It's more important that women stake a claim in the vtuber space and fence it off against male entry than to dismiss it so easily. That was how we lost isekai to the first male entrants, MLP/pwerpuff girls to the first degenerates to wash ashore, how we are losing romance manga, and how in time we will eventually lose goddamned barbie dolls.

I think there's a lack of interest in finding untapped markets instead of copying what other people have done successfully. It's possible more innovation and risk is taken up by corporations and agencies. I can name several vtubers who "talk about ships and slashfics" but they're all corporate. Indies just kind of pander and desperately avoid audience alienation.

The most dignified course I'd see for an independent vtuber would be to colonize space where established youtube audiences exist but vtuber presence is negligible, and to collaborate with established fleshlings/png girls.

Booktube has plenty of women who use PNG avatars and manage to build some audience, and there's a history of people adopting a horror host type persona when specializing their channels on scifi/fantasy/horror/crime books. In programming there is already a market for VCoders which is mostly being met by male and tranny vtubers, except for Cyan Nyan (who is popular enough that she might be able to do it full time, but probably makes more money in her day job).

The field that's probably most ripe for building a female audience as a woman using a vtuber avatar independent of corporate employment is True Crime. I am honestly a little surprised by the fact that true crime channels are so willing to show their real faces, and in many cases real names.

Offtime-Professional spaces like lawtube could also probably benefit from more female presence and women in that space would probably benefit from stronger anonymity than their male counterparts. Lawtube specifically was more or less cast into its current form by things like the Depp/Heard defamation case and backlash against title 9 or MeToo, so it's full of sexually resentful obsessive weirdos. But it'd be hard to imagine being taken seriously as a legal professional who streams as an anime creature, or being motivated to enter into a place as misogynistic as communities formed out of Depp/Heard drama when your day job pays professional salary.

There's a disadvantage to specializing in an untapped market. I think it'd be harder to fall back into lazy minecraft streaming stuff or reaction content. The videogame streamer market is so oversaturated it seems unreasonable to try to succeed from that starting point but it's not like people are flooding twitch to donate to live book reviews or live audio performances of public domain crime dramas. Audience is overfed versus audience is not there.

>>264770
>BUt in three to ten years you will not find even one single fujo pit that is not culturally dominated by Luxiem-inspired audio rp and moderated by twitterbrained nijisisters
I think you need to up your filter game. The only reason I have context for what you are talking about is because I've seen these things discussed in meta in other places. "Classic" fujoism (fics and art from stuff that is actually a story) is alive and well. I don't think we've "lost" anything–how men and women participate in fandom are different and the only reason we must suffer their presence NOW is because most of the art is on Twitter.

>>264846
we lost Barbie already, every fangirl space will meet the same fate as reddit.

>>264755
>No vtuber girl seems legit to me because they never talk about ships/fanfic/doujins, which is weeb girl manna.
Runie Ruse, Dizzy Dokuro and Amanogawa Shiina all talk about these things pretty often.

Vtubers in general are mostly pickmes pandering to men. I remember there was one named Riro Ron who was literally a loli vtuber, claimed to be a "lesbian" with no interest in men, and then started backpedalling hard on that and even "joked" about hosting IRL meet-ups for her premium membership fanboys. (Picrel)

She got terminated from her company because it turned out it was not a joke, and there was some kind of drama within the company where it turned out they realized she was dating staff or some shit.

Vtubing is just e-girl cancer for weebtards, that's all it's ever been. Men who knowingly throw their money at stacys that won't give them any real individual attention deserve to be robbed and mistreated at every step of the way. Any good man knows better than to fall for that bullshit.

>>265426
>Men who knowingly throw their money at stacys that won't give them any real individual attention deserve to be robbed and mistreated at every step of the way
i seen "vtubers" on twitter who hadnt even "debut" yet or whatever, so they never even streamed once, and they have automatic tweets made whenever someone donates something through that amazon wishlist thing. boys were buying her (might not of even been a girl tbh) gaming computers and s*x toys and expensive streaming gear. it's sick. i want to believe its all coming from some rich saudi oil tycoon in india but we can go and see interrogation footage of young american men who were arrested for stealing thousands of dolar, just to send it to virtual women online.

>>264745
Man, Sawa always confused me with this stuff, because she's supposed to be a Christian, but whenever stuff like loli is brought out she acts more ambivalent than anything else, or that thinking it's weird and creepy is a bad thing. I really have a hard time understanding the kind of attitude that leads to someone explicitly stating that she thinks all pornography is wrong (which she does frequently) while at the same time condemning people who want to make anime less fanservicey as being tourists who need to be gatekept. It's a very perplexing viewpoint.

>>265425
And what these channels have in common? All corporate.
Nijisanji, the largest vtuber corporation, seemed like it had a sort of initiation ritual of each male generation being initiated by having a female senpai describe the omegaverse and mpreg lemon fics to them.
The problem of indie pandering is real.

>>265425
In a general way or an "I ship x/y and here are some fanfic recs" kind of way? Like >>265448 says you they absolutely have somebody in the ladder spoonfeeding them things to drop on stream that can make them "relatable".

no you're not the only one. it's not cute to pander to pedoid males.

>>265450
This. Lia from that same corpo has done live readings of slashfic, there are clips aplenty of unarchived/demonetized cursed fic streams, BUT sincere fic recommends are so rare as to be nonexistent.
I think corpos try to keep up a certain minimum female viewer percentage for reasons associated with merchandise sales. I have zero evidence that this is the case, but quality and volume of merch is one of the big differentiators between the corporate market and the indie monetization scheme and I have heard that women are more likely to buy certain varieties of inexpensive physical goods (like keychains etc., not fucking dakimakura ero shite).

>>265426
I like Rin Penrose, and her strict zero ero rules. Rin led to such expectations, and such disappointment. The entire rest of IdolEN is completely unsalvageable and it's shocking how quickly they each and all degenerated on screen in real time.

>>265455
There's now objective evidence on the merchandise argument.
Nijisanji released their latest financial report in English today.
Their viewers are 55% male on youtube, but their store ID accounts for merchandise are 65% female. Women are their primary income source.

No wonder they had their female talents doing Twilight watchalongs and authoring slashfic on-stream. Lose a few nonpaying male watchers, but gain a few paying customers. If you lose 2 nonpaying males for every 1 paying woman, that's an objectively correct business call.

>>265508
Losing male audience seems like a bad financial move for female vtubers, I'm not sure about niji numbers but Vox popularity probably screws with their stats.

Well, JP is also the major income source when it comes to profits. EN is a drop in the bucket for both Hololive and Nijisanji. You are really underestimating the popularity of Vtubers in Japan. Here in NA, it's still a relatively fringe thing. EN truly doesn't actually matter to JP Vtuber companies. It's just icing on the cake.
Also, Hololive is definitely bigger than Nijisanji. You can say Niji has a bigger market cap, but that doesn't make them a bigger company by market share. By that logic Tesla is bigger than Toyota because Tesla has a bigger matket cap. The obvious contradiction is that way more people drive Toyota than Tesla.
Anyway, my opinion is that these agencies - almost exclusively male led - are designed to fundamentally take advantage of women. Most who become Vtubers are just trying desperately to find some form of internet success and this puts them in a vulnerable position. Even if you look at Hololive who everyone fucking salivates over, their talents have been bringing in more and more money every single quarter, yet their actual take-home pay has reminded mostly unchanged. This is shown in Cover's own financial report last month. You have these Vtubers slaving for lemming fans while the agency takes a huge cut and uses it to fill the pockets of old male shareholders. The agencies don't even give a shit about their talents. The moment one does anything to draw the ire of the corporate overlords, they just get thrown to the wolves like a piece of trash. The entire vtuber industry is deeply flawed, the drama with Selen and Nijisanji drew more attention to this, but the truth is that every vtuber just an expendable voice to any agency. If Nijisanji kept everything under wraps, chances are that no one would ever have known about the dogshit conditions behind the scenes.
Reminds me of the time Fox News got a bunch of new TV personalities for one of their political shows and the first thing the director told them was along the lines of "you're just a face, there are a million identical faces ready to take your place"

>>265521
>Also, Hololive is definitely bigger than Nijisanji. You can say Niji has a bigger market cap, but that doesn't make them a bigger company by market share. By that logic Tesla is bigger than Toyota because Tesla has a bigger matket cap.
Niji has historically had the higher market cap for about as long as the market for vtubers has existed, and it has about twice the number of active vtubers, produces more content, has more aggregate viewers, significantly more JP viewers, and it still has BiliBili accounts and a Chinese customer base, and -
The only thing Holo has over Niji is an english language fanbase captured during Covid. Which they captured at that specific time because western otaku were willing to get invested in the political drama of the Taiwan incident so they had a prefabricated audience ready when they launched their EN branch. They failed upwards.
The rest of your post I agree with, but will add that performance arts are not special for this. Nobody expects video game companies to pay the artists, designers, programmers etc with shares of their billions in profits, instead places like Blizzard developed cutthroat human management strategies that led to hostile work environments and news stories about women's breastmilk being stolen out of their designated refrigerator while the billionaire CEO personally threatened to murder the women who worked for him over the phone. People defend this as the video game industry being an industry, but their video game products are defended as unquestionably "ART" with the legal rights of art instead of as industrial product subject to industrial First Amendment restrictions similar to Truth In Advertising laws?

>>265532
>Niji has historically had the higher market cap for about as long as the market for vtubers has existed
That sounds strange to me, source?

i think it's really gross and cringe how these girls pretend to be into eachother

>>265545
According to this popular video, behind the scenes between indies it is often not pretending, and often gets even worse.

>>264745
What are you doing watching vtubers in the first place?
The point is the fake parasocial relationship of having an anime character acknowledge your existance. Of course the want to appeal to men because they are the typical le animu waifus.

I get the appeal, and I get how Vtubers regularly pander to the "normie V-scene" but fuck me. All of them so copy paste it's just so tiring…
Why to Vtubers generally fall back on the sex jokes/coom brain humor, most of the time it's so forced(like their content most of the time). To each their own ig.

I'll admit, some corpo Vtubers can work their cunts off. slay.

>>265856
I speak American. What specifically is being measured here? Net revenue? Gross revenue? Net profit? Gross profit? Productions and operations costs? Chinese cyberattacks?

>>265893
>VSTATS 2024 February Total viewing hours base share
>total viewing time: 68937620
Blue is Hololive and orange is Niji

>>265890
pandering to sell some kind of illusion.
last time i checked vtubers the ones with a large community were pandering to certain fetish or fantasy.

>>265856
>>265894
Interesting. When I eliminated the English groups from Holo and Niji I had to do some rotations to bring the image in line, not sure if there's a version of the chart with built in filtering abilities. Without HoloEN or NijiEN the two groups look pretty much neck and neck, the difference in viewing hours between the non-English branches slightly smaller than the fraction of the pie taken by "Dokibird."

>>265435
There are a lot of people who claim to be pre-debut Vtubers but never actually debut or make content, and instead try to just farm and use clout on Twitter. People call them Vtweeters. They got super salty at Calliope Mori a while ago for calling them out in some of her songs. Aa cringe as she is, at least she actually makes content and is pretty successful with it

>>265521
Cope. The JP market is definitely the bigger Vtuber market, obviously, but the EN market is by no means insignificant. You can see how much it contributes in Cover Corp's financials, and also in how they pander to foreigners as well as JPs with their events like Holofes, and their concert in America and now in Australia (this weekend, in fact)

Jealousy: the thread

>>264753
see i always chalked vtubers as like aging women or someone who doesnt like their apearance, not so much someone who is super into anime, rigs are fucking expensive and even if ppl spend a shit ton of their money on hobbies.

the weird psychological bit is the way that they are funded similiarly to like how old yt monetization used to work with like syndication channels like machinima, they have like a parent company take over "legal" and pay for the rigs for them to stream, its like pimping except streaming, to me thats bizarre bc u can just stream.

anyways loli is gay and cringe