So what's the point of having men (you aren't dating/related to) in your life? Anonymous 30977
They make bad friends and are often only interested in getting into your pants. I used to have male friends, but they were incapable of controlling themselves and eventually made advances towards me. I have a lesbian friend and she would never make me uncomfortable like that or ruin our friendship. Not only that, but I have never felt such closeness to a male friend as I have a female friend. Can someone explain this to me?
Men are incapable of being just friends with someone they are attracted to. And they usually become friends with women to get closer to them. At least from what I had seen, of course not speaking from experience.
I've never had my male friends make advances on me. Just be ugly, strange, or open about having weird fetishes and they'll be turned off.
Even after getting a big makeover since high school I still have a harsh personality and my friends still remember the fact that I drew pics of guys in bondage/vomiting/gored up and other shit so they don't try. Even a newer male friend who said I was "cute" didn't attempt because I'm fucking awful.
The downside is that when I actually like a man I continue to cockblock myself.
>>30980>Just be ugly, strange, or open about having weird fetishes and they'll be turned off
why should I have to pretend to be something I'm not? my female friends accept me for who I am and don't try to take advantage of my kindness.
Then don't have male friends if it doesn't benefit you.
I only have male friends because I don't know how to approach women for friendship…I'd prefer to have female friends irl who are awful in the same way as me, but don't know how to find them.
Such is the curse of being born beautiful.
but im not beautiful, i'd give myself a 6/10 at best. it's not like im some beautiful siren pulling men in, im pretty average.
Such is the curse of being really really nice?
personally I have only male friends since childhood i got bullied till early teens by only girls so it's kinda hard to trust my own sex lol
They give me attention and I need attention to survive. I lost my orbiters last year and I haven't felt a thing since
No, anon. You are the Stacy, but really see a professional about this kind of behavior. It's not healthy. You need help.
>not having no sex drive so you can surround yourself with only female friends and ignore males
Male friends are pointless, they will never truly see you as one of them.
You're on an anonymous imageboard retard, stop thinking you can diagnose people because of one thing they said
I haven't made any diagnosis. That's why I'm recommending professional help.
What do you mean, she used it correctly?
She used the quote function correctly? Whom was she quoting?
She was using greentext in a way it’s commonly used, most people don’t just use it as a quote function
>>31048>most people don’t just use it as a quote function
If only they did. Then no one would have to put up with the offense to basic grammar that is greentexting.
You should be banned for being such a noob.
"who are you quoting" is an old meme though
I don't have an irl social life so I kinda don't have much of a choice I've made it clear but im sure some are still secretly creepy. I feel more comfortable with girls since I know they won't say weird shit behind my back and even if they are attracted I don't mind it bc I've never gotten harassed by a girl before
should be banned for being such a noob.
>>31056>I feel more comfortable with girls since I know they won't say weird shit behind my back
you know so little, it's almost always the opposite. men gossip way less
By weird shit I mean saying sexual stuff about me, one guy out of 3 snitched that two of my "friends" were on a video call just imagining stuff they would do to me
Depends on which girls you surround yourself with. Most of my friends irl are female and they're not the kind to gossip or create a lot of drama.
In this moment I am glad to be ugly.
Eh, I have a male friend who my other male friend says talks openly about sex with his gf around The Boys. Have you also never been on /adv/? Every other thread is some guy blabbing about how shitty his girlfriend supposedly is at sex or the size of her tits or how she doesn't wax her vagoo something.
I think it's pretty equal, I've experienced it coming from both sexes. Not that I have a study handy, but if you do it's welcome.
>Men don't tend to share information
Do you live in utopialand? I wish most men were like that.
I think there’s a big difference between being anon on the internet and venting personal details vs. giving explicit and personal information to someone irl, especially a mutual friend.
Also, yes, there is probably some small average difference between men and women with this stuff but the variation within the sexes is WAY bigger than any difference between them.
ok but how do you claim to know so much about boy talk? from what i hear boys don't talk the same as they do when the girls are around (and vice versa i can confirm). like, im not gonna talk about my sex life infront of boys, but i'll talk about my sexual issues with close female friends. i doubt decent men are just willing to talk about their experience fucking girls around other girls. you got a penis?
that's why all my male friends are either taken, gay, asexual, or otherwise socially unacceptable to date (ex. your boss/professor/counselor/relative/guardian/monk/mourning widow/etc.) so it's platonic all the way. it's great because there is never ambiguity if you're being come on to - you just get to enjoy each others' company and friendship as people.
They just trash talk their gfs so their friends don't try anithing funny, retard
Can you explain men sharing/leaking their partner's nudes, at least? I know that's pretty common, in my own life I even saw some chad type in high school showing his friend a picture of his gf's puss in homeroom. Wild.
I still stand by it being pretty even/agree with >>31099
that it's individual. Certain types of men and certain types of women blab about it, that's it.
As for your male friends specifically, are they the types who talk about sex shit often? Like sharing porn/kinks, etc.? I know my male friends can be like that which is why it makes sense one was a blabber mouth. I used to just openly draw porn while hanging out with them lol, although I believe it's morally wrong to talk about any partners I may have in a sexual way and would stop talking about sexy things with my male best friend out of respect.
Perhaps your male friends are just less gross/open about that stuff in general?>>31167
Apparently he didn't trash talk her, though. Just went into detail about how they fuck.
I have more male friends than female friends, because I have "unusual" interests for a girl (but probably not abnormal for the c.c girls) but the female friends I do have im much closer to, and guys do always flirt with you. I still dont know how to feel about having male friends.
woah, i should've discovered this shit a million years ago
none i have come to similar conclusions. all male friends will try something because the fact they are talking to you in the first place means they have some hidden motives. fact. anyways i dont have any male friends and will only talk to them when im in need of attention since they are so thirsty and will give me what i want at the snap of a finger. that's literally their only leverage above female friends.
I dont understand this attention drug you and many others here speak of. Personally I feel uncomfortable/insecure knowing what males think about me even if they're just school colleagues. I dont want attention; I just want to be seen as any other colleague and finish whatever task the colleague is needed for and be left alone.
if it means choosing between being an invisible ghost and having some person besides your own family pay attention to you then i choose the latter.
As someone with many male friends, it only works if you're in the mom or little sister zone with them. Even if they find you aesthetically pleasing or even attractive, if you're solidly in their "would not bang" or "I wouldn't mind but would not pursue" category, they won't even attempt.
Keep in mind you'll never be able to talk about sex or relationships in detail with them like you do with your girl or gay friends unless you two actually end up fucking.
a guy being attracted to you is in no way a bad thing, you need to seek help
Having men be attracted to you isn't bad (unless ur gay or something)
However, having every male who offers you friendship only doing it to get in your pants is annoying at best. If you disagree, you've either never had to deal with an unwanted suitor (lucky you) or are a dirty pervert.
>>31413>a guy that wants to be your friend because he finds you attractive is the same as some pervert stalking you
>>31414>wants to be your friend because he finds you attractive
But he doesn't actually want to be your friend, that's the point>is the same as some pervert stalking you
What? When were stalkers brought up?
gather around girls I dont know if this the right place to post this but it kinda related to the whole men wanting to have girls around if they see them as potential partners. I have a story to tell you, this didnt happened to me perse but it did happened to a friend of mine and tbh I wished I could punch that guy who did that to her seriously… Anyways, so my friend is this sweet super nice girl, honestly I havent met someone as nice as her, she always knows what to say and yeah she is basically the best girl. Anyways so she meets this guy online and he treats her like a queen and he says all these nice things about her how kind and gentle she is, she is an awesome friend how great he feels to have a friend like her and two weeks later he asks her out (note: he still didn't know what my friend looked like this will be relevant) so they were talking and he asks if he could see what she looks like and she happily sent him a picture of herself and he sent her a pic of himself but boy as soon as he saw her, he backtracked FAST my friend is pretty but she is 400lbs she kinda reminds me of Lana del rey but yeah if Lana was overweight. the guy right away was like "look I dont think we can do this we are going too fast with this maybe we need to slow down I really cant do this I am sorry" and she right away said "its because of my weight huh?" and he said "well yeah I didn't think you would be that big" and then things were left at that and some few days passed the guy stopped coming online to talk to her. days became weeks and my friend received an email saying "sorry I thought I was strong and mature enough to do this but I cant, I dont think we can be friends either I thought about ghosting you but you at least deserve to know" man my friend was so devastated, so yeah I totally agree that men only see female friends as potential partners even when the female friend has stated she is not interested but there will always be that.
No one said that theres a problem with that retard. The problem is when guys pretend to be your friend to fuck you or when you become good friends with a guy only for him to eventually want to fuck/date you and ruin the friendship you built. The 2nd one is the worst, i mean i can deal with fake friends but losing a true friend bc he can't keep it in his pants sucks and its happened to me twice.
I can't fuck or date every guy that talks to me jesus
Sounds pretty terrible for both parties involved. Must be a very good person to have them falling head-over-heels for you.
it's entirely possible he just didn't want to hear her blab on about her partner; maybe dude was going through a breakup, or was bitter about not having anyone himself. who knows if he just wanted her ~vagina~
You clearly don't have any experience being in a situation where a friend falls for you so stop making assumptions about it. You're an idiot if you think it doesnt ruin relationships.
Its not a matter of "oh shit no chance of pussy peace" when its a good male friend. Obviously fake male friends will peace out but its not like I even care about their friendship in the first place. I generally only talk to guys in public spaces if i want something from them, like a free drink. I dont expect friendship from a guy I meet at a club, im not retarded. I want a drink, they want quick pussy and then to never see me again its just shallow.
But when its a close guy friend its so incredibly awkward for him to tell you that he loves you and for you to reject him. There's no saving that relationship. I knew one of the guys for 3 years and it was just so clearly over at that point. His pride was hurt pretty bad. That one friend told me that his heart hurt when he looked at me and that he couldn't see me go on to date other guys. And i just ended up feeling horrible everytime we hung out after. We just eventually stopped making plans and talking.
The post from that anon is between two people that have nothing in common. Obviously i choose friends i have shit in common with and we click. I think the issue is I have interests in a lot of male dominated hobbies and like to hang out with nerdy types and they fall hard for girls in the same group.
Its not good but I give up and just treat all interactions with men as shallow and interactional. Only man I care for and trust is my bf. But i have no illusions about him going away if we could never ever have sex again, bc i wouldnt stick around either.
Note: i started dating recently so im obviously not flirting with men for drinks anymore
>>31432>pretty good person
Lol not even true, im an ok person. Have any single nerdyish male friends, have "nerdy" hobbies and interests and be a 6+/10 and they will all fall hard for you everytime.
>>31439>I generally only talk to guys in public spaces if i want something from them like a free drink
Like you go up and chat thinking about getting them to buy you something? I think that may be a slight sign of sociopathy.
Obviously I'm not approaching men trying to convince them to buy me drinks. thats pathetically desperate. Let me make this post super clear for you because you seem to make assumptions.
Men approach and offer to buy me (women in general) drinks to obviously try and get me drunk so he can insert his dick inside me. Why else would you offer to buy a women you find attractive a substance that reduces their decision making and cognitive function? Im not naive and im not interested in one night stands.
And its absolutely unbelieveable the lies a man will tell you to get you into bed about how interested he is in you as a person and how he wants to get to know you and yadda yadda. The shit I've been told to try and "sway me" is ridiculous. It's a lot more sociopathic to express romantic interest in a girl beyond sex just to get into her pants. I dont feel bad at all for ordering the drink and peacing out. Not that I've ever fell for any of their shit.
It's just the way you worded it. No biggie.
>guy wants a relationship
>men know that most relationships start as two people being nice to each other
>then they turn into friends
>then they turn into fuckbuddies
>then they turn into a couple
But that's generally not how relationships start now a days (based on the way you worded that). You cant just be nice to a girl and a good platonic friend and be disappointed when it eventually doesnt turn into anything. There absolutely needs to be attraction from both parties and at least mild flirting at the beginning. you can't just convince someone to like you over time romantically. I pity men who think befriending women who have no intention of dating/fucking them is going to work. Men need to understand this shit.
>You guys knew eachother for THREE years and you couldn't make him understand that he had no chance with you?
>suddenly you become conscious and decide you don't want to be with him
>you don't have to fuck every man you meet, but make sure THEY understands that
Ok these statements from you (most likely a dude) absolutely cement the fact that male friends are shite. How the fuck is it my fault that befriending men is "leading them on"? There is no "deciding not to be with him" we were friends from the beginning and i clearly had no attraction to him. But men think you can make a woman fall for you no matter what. Its ridiculous, and I'm saddened that he went through that.
Also, lmao am i supposed to tell every guy i befriend that "I will not fuck you and i am not interested in dating you"? Friendly male teasing is very similar to mild flirting. Men need to be forward whether they want to be "friends" or date because that's so scummy.
Men are hardcoded to smash women.
That's why we're all alive, so all this manifesting from friendship shouldn't really be that strange.
If a man wants friends, it's pretty much other men all the time due to: interests, banter, way of speaking, no sexual friction, possessions, relatable, etc.
To break this barrier as a woman requires a lot of effort and interest, but it's really possible.
i mean my best friend is a dude, i've known him for 4-5 years. we did end up dating at one point but broke up and he has been nothing but supportive for me.
It's kind of strange because >>>/feels/16677
were complaining specifically of men essentially sabotaging romantic relationships in order to preserve inter-male friendship, but I don't think I've heard much about men doing anything similar to preserve a friendship with a woman, attractive or otherwise. Not just heterosexual men either, I don't think I've ever heard any story about "gay best friends" diminishing their chances of a potential or actual homosexual relationship off of the reaction of a female friend, either.
I've heard plenty of stories of men pursuing dangerous, damaging relationships despite the best advice and insight of a female friend and confidante. And I've heard and read stories about men destroying their chances of pursuing an actually good relationship for the sake of a male companion. Sometimes even just for the sake of a dog.
I guess girls into the same kinda stuff and similar humour obviously exist since this website does but I have no idea how to find you guys in real life!!!
Men don't listen to women even when it's in their best interest? gasp
It's not a man are shit at friendship thing, it's a sexism thing. I'm not gonna get into the Tumblr feminist arguments for this, but anyone who's had a male acquaintance their age or older knows this to be true.
You could be the most qualified person in a room and men will still see you as a hysterical woman that's no more of an authority than a child. We live in a society.
>mysandrist femdom matriarchy when?hi /r9k/
>I'm not like other girlsss Im one of the boyzz
unfortunately most of my friends are guys bc im intimidated by women and it feels like they judge me. the only female friends i have are my sisters and female cousins.
fortunately none of my guy friends (or any males whatsoever) have ever made a move on account of i am very ugly and socially retarded. also most of them are married anyway.
i have one male friend who is pretty funny but so exhausting to hang out with because he has no filter and he's very loud and outgoing. i can only handle like 2 hours at a time with him and sometimes (he's very christian) he says things about women that im like…… oh no. but i keep going over to his house bc i really like his wife :(
ugh girls like you really annoy me seriously you are basically those type of girls that say shit like "girls are so dramatic thats why i only hang out with guys" see >>31726
seriously we girls arent bad and most guys will always see you below them since you're not a guy.
Take it from someone who's had male and female friends, men will always see you either as a domestic servant or a fucktoy if you seek any sort of close relationship with them.
yesss aint nothing but the truth I mean look at japan men are treated like gods even the otakus and neets while women are seen as second class citizens, its a custom for woman to always walk behind their husbands, brothers or other family male figures. Yeah sexual harassment is a norm if a guy fondles you or grabs your ass on the subway they consider it your fault for putting yourself in this situation. seriously men are trash and girls who hate/talk shit about other girls and praise men are trash as well.
im the anon you replied to
i didnt mean to come across as 'not like other girls'. its a shame i dont have any female friends, i really want a solid group of women to be friends with. my male friends annoy the fuck out of me, but i feel more comfortable with men because of my own fucked up inferiority complex when it comes to other women. i dont think im better then other girls, i don't think women are dramatic, and i'm sorry i came across that way. i just dont know how to be friends to women. maybe thats fucked and im sorry.
dont need to be sorry, and you just havent met the right type of people but we girls can be pretty cool, you just probably happen to stumble upon a few bitches but yeah we girls can be cool too and heck we can even give eachother make up advice and other fun stuff. usually when I make friends I usually compliment someone on their shirt or if they have something that is of common interest (ex. a sailor moon bag, or an animal crossing 3ds idk) and just continue to talk to them as if you were going to talk to your male friends, tbh its easier to be friends with girls because unlike men we actually get whats going on with eachother and if you're our friend we actually care for you and not your boobs or vagina, because lets be honest men even your male friends will either see you as a sexual object or someone thats of lower class just because of your sex, I had a friend who was a writer and she moved in with her boyfriend, the guy was a cool guy and he let her "pursue her dreams" and stuff, something bad happened and they broke up a few years later he admitted to her that he never believed she was gonna become a writer and he thought that sooner or later she would give up on writing and he just kept her around because he just wanted to have a nice wife (they were engaged) in a way its not bad but in a way he kinda just saw her as an object he could show off to his other male friends and cowokers alike. I guess some women are okay with that but my point is that men will always see women as objects/trophies. and they will for sure abandon you if one of their bros showed interest in you just so they dont "get in the way"
aw thanks anon and thanks for the good advice. my sister has invited me along to hang out with some of her friends so maybe i can try making friends. i dont have a lot of opportunity bc i work in a male dominated field.
that sucks about your friend's bf, he sounds disgusting. i hope she's doing a lot better now. i think i have the fortune to be friends with guys who arent so awful, i dont think any of them view me as a sexual object but some of them can be sexist sometimes :/
you should definetely go out with your sister more, im sure her friends are nice people if they hang out with your sister. maybe you're just shy but yeah like I said not all girls are dramatic and "evil bitches" give it a shot look if something happens your sister will def have your back so you got nothing to lose, yeah that was my point about guys the fact that they are sexist even in front of you means that they probably dont respect you or see you as an equal. so yah I think you would benefit having more girl friends in your life. I wish you the best of luck here!
Relatable OP. Rant incoming. Had a lot of male friends through high school. They vanished once I had a boyfriend. One stalked me for a couple years to the point where I could log into a random MMO and he'd find and message that account within a day. My crime was that I was polite to him at Sunday School. Fucking nuts.
Formed some cool male friends in uni. Until one of them made a scene when I turned him down for sex, and the "decent" guys in the rest of the group tucked their tails between their legs and chose bros before hos- I was a virgin at that point too, ironically- and never talked much to me again except in hushed tones admitting that my experience was messed up.
Studying for my masters, a guy twice my size and age threw a tantrum in the middle of class for turning him down.
There are a lot of good people, bad people regardless of gender (and sexuality- I've known shitty lesbians OP.) But you definitely get to experience disproportionately more shitty men than the good ones if you're so much as a barely average-looking woman.
Most guys I've ever known could only handle being held at a professional distance. FTM transgender guys tend to be cooler by a bit and gay guys have always been great as friends and generally decent coworkers/classmates to my personal experience. (I know it's not universal.)
Related heavily to the uni part of your story. Every time I have a group of male friends and one of them does something fucked up, they all stand by their friend and cut me out of all of their lives, even if they know that I was in the right and tell me I was right after the fact.
It seems like the steel binding of male friendship, "my buddy right or wrong" is at least as big of a problem as their unwillingness to extend a similar kind of friendship to women.
I've only ever had male friends since my childhood so I really don't understand any of the bitching in this thread as I've never had anyone be shitty towards me irl despite being rather physically attractive (except for one guy who I friendzoned and thankfully have no contact with anymore), or I just haven't noticed it since I'm autistic and awkward. If anything it's been me being the shitty one since I hardly feel like I'm a good friend to anyone.
I prefer talking to guys online (I don't have any non-internet friends anymore) because my interests and general mannerisms fall that way and I think I'll always prefer that, but I recently got together with an online group of girls (thanks to this site, actually) and to start with it felt so alien to me, but I'm more used to it now and really appreciate it.
You're all so fucking misandrist. Stop it.
>>31952>lul im not like you girls im one of the boyzzzzz plox dont be jealous of meee!! you girls are so mean and spiteful! jealous bitches no wonder I have male friends onlyyy
this is how pathetic you sound I hope the dicks are worth it and also hope you know that your male "friends" will always prioritize other MALES before you sis :)
my god dude just because someone acknowledges that many men can be good friends, doesnt mean they are woman-hating handmaidens of the patriarchy.
it's like as soon as you ladies see another woman who doesnt despise men with the same forceful rage you do, you leap to tear her down and call her a pathetic, stuck-up pick-me bitch. >your male "friends" will always prioritize other MALES before you sis :)
not all girls are mean and spiteful, but you certainly are.
Not that anon but I do agree with them Ive had some shitty male friends who stopped talking to me because I rejected one of them mind you he was my friend as well and they actually believed him about me leading him on and I was really hurt by that. They started treating me indifferently and called me names. I was so hurt by the way they were treating me. At a point I even considered suicide and blamed myself for that. The fact that none of them believed me… After that I developed some abandonment issues and I basically became anti social and untrusting of anyone.
>>31964>men are ICKY and HORRIBLE and we should KILL THEM ALL because I SAID SO.
This is how you sound. And mind I remind you you're on an internet forum, where many people from all different walks of life will post different opinions to you. If you can't deal with that it's your problem, not mine. Maybe try treating males like human beings who are equal to you like I do instead of being a spiteful cow for no reason and your perspective might change. Just a thought.>>31974
Thank you for backing me up.
You think men are good, I think men are awful and only want to hurt women. Nothing you say will change my mind about that and I know nothing I say will change yours, so let's agree to disagree then. No need to get your panties in a bunch and call your fellow women misandrists because some women here have actual stories where men have shown to be awful to them, if you cant handle it just leave this thread sis. >>31981
I am really sorry for what happened, you didn't deserve that. I hope you go to therapy and try to get your life together again. Wishing you the best anon, just know that there's some actual good in the world, I hope you find it.
personally, i think men and women both have the capacity to be good friends or terrible shitty people. women like >>31981
and many others in this thread have had awful experiences with male friends and it's completely understandable that they would avoid male friendships in the future (like for real that sucks anon, i hope you're doing a lot better now)
but heres the thing
being vitriolic towards women who havent had bad experiences with male friendships or are still willing to give them a chance, that makes you an asshole.
my panties arent in a twist because of stories about men being awful to women, its because of your rage towards women who havent had those experiences yet is indirected.
I've read that men form vertical friendship hierarchies and women form horizontal friendship associations. If true then that would explain some things, like >>31278
saying you need to be either their mom or their little sister, otherwise you don't fit in the friend framework to them. It would also mean that in every male friendship one of them is the uke and one is the seme…
>>32011>It would also mean that in every male friendship one of them is the uke and one is the seme…
You cant suck a dick, if there is no dick around.
Anonymous Moderator 32083
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What can a 400lbs person even do? Can a girl that big even walk properly anymore? Maybe the guy wanted someone to do things with in the world, go places, see things and not just chat.
To a man sometimes shitty behaving or spoken guy can be a great friend, they might not want to introduce them to girlfriends or acquaintances but he'll drag you out of a gutter in the middle of nowhere at night and make sure you get home ok if you need him to.
I don't seek out men as friends. They orbit me. When I'm adjusting to a new social scene they make easy temp "friends". They'll throw me out just as easily when they find girls who'll fuck them. I never ever take them as seriously or value them like I do my woman friends.
I hate the term orbiting, but honestly same. Men make decent temporary friends when you are somewhere new and just need someone to talk to, but there's always that underlying undertone of "I will sleep with you if you give me the chance" in any interaction.
It's difficult for me to make friends with people so I take what I can get. But I do get along quite well with the men I've befriended so I have no complaints. Even if I felt that men made inferior friends I'd still appreciate them because they are different.
Never had one try to get into my pants. I even found out that one had a thing for me for a while but he never acted on it.
>>32011>in every male friendship one of them is the uke and one is the seme…
Is this true?
that's the point of the handshake anon. to identify which one is superior.
No. I also don't understand that vertical friendship and horizontal friendship, doesn't everyone have closer and less-close friends?
I don't think that's what it means. Vertical would mean you see certain friends as more valuable/powerful than you and others as lesser. Horizontal is more egalitarian.
Anyone somehow manage both? I judge people as how they're viewed "objectively" in society but on my own terms see everyone as equally valuable. Like I acknowledge how they're ranked by the masses but also don't care.
Then I don't think it's true. I can't even imagine creating a hierarchy for my friends using other factors than emotional closeness. And even if I like some of them better I don't show it when we're hanging out together, I'd be a dick if I would.
>Anyone somehow manage both? I judge people as how they're viewed "objectively" in society but on my own terms see everyone as equally valuable. Like I acknowledge how they're ranked by the masses but also don't care.
I think most people are like that, we don't chose friends only by judging people, chemistry is a very big factor.
I always thought the friendships famous people have especially before they became famous are very beautiful. Especially when your best friend was someone like Hitler.
Men friends could be useful but you can drop them up if they start advancing. Just be pragmatic. I have like three men friends who want something more. I also have a boyfriend about whom I don't tell them to keep them on the hook.
Vertical vs horizontal is more about social dominance between the two or within the group than about what society outside of the friendship circle values. Here is a dog science paper on how doggos make friends with other doggos. It talks a bit about the differences between dominant and egalitarian affiliation.http://www.unleashedinevanston.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Trisko-et-al.-2016-Dog-Friendship.pdf
The description of wolf friendships at the beginning explains the social value of dominance based relationships, but dog friendships aren't built along the lines of the struggle for dominance and the need for conflict resolution that is described among the wolves.>Egalitarian relationships (i.e., affiliative relationships with no observable imbalance of power) are rare in most species (Hand, 1986). Some studies of wolves (Zimen, 1981; Mech, 1999) and dogs (Bradshaw & Nott, 1995; Brad- shaw et al., 2009) have hinted at the existence of egalitarian relationships, but to our knowledge, this is the first study to document that, in a species with linear dominance hierarchies, some dyads lack dominance relationships yet show affiliation.
Dogs aren't human, and the sex differences in dog friendship don't look related to sex differences in human friendship. This part in particular:>At daycare, male–male dyads were the most likely sex class to have non- interactive relationships, female–female dyads were the most likely to have agonistic relationships, and mixed-sex dyads were the most likely sex class to have egalitarian relationships. In a study of play at a dog park suggest that competitive pressures are higher for dogs of the same sex even when they are neutered and living with humans.
Obviously women aren't physically aggressive with each other more often than men, and men and women aren't more likely to be equitable friends than women and other women. Equitable relationships between women aren't going to turn out like Safi and Violet. In the dogs,>None of the 7 same-sex dyads ended up with an egalitarian relationship.
Human women do just fine, and it seems like an un-equal relationship is hard for us to call friendship.
said is interesting, because that anon says implies that men build their relationships around being unequal and relating unequally, and it's the sort of thing that a lot of people say about men but almost never about women. If a woman says "I'd never let my best friend talk to my boyfriend but she's the person I'd trust more than anyone when things are really terrible," it means she has a really shitty boyfriend.
This is just a troll posing as a girl, r-right?
If you’ve taken care to read the replies around here, I don’t think so. Anonymity is perfect for making you feel sick to your stomach about human nature.
Of my closest friend circle, most are guys but the closest are women. Not a shock I suppose.
I’m a big ole gay and for a long time I felt slightly weird about my female friends. Mainly becuase they were beautiful and I was terrified that they’d find out I was gay and think I was just there to try and fuck them like a guy would be. Turned out to be a stupid worry, but it really stunted some of my female friendships in my teens.
I’m still pretty regretful about it, honestly, but no point recriminating now.
My hobbies tend towards ‘traditionally guy things’, so I find it easy to befriend guys, and I guess I’ve just been lucky. Of my male friend circle, only two of the like.. weird fringy ones tried to hit on me (knowing I was gay).
They got excised and shits cosy now. Everyone shitposts together happily and has a lovely time.
I think it’s probably helped by them being almost universally late 20s/early 30s, but I think I just met decent guys to be friends with. Feels a little unfair when all you straight girls are meeting fuckboy after fuckboy.
>>32759>>and men and women aren't more likely to be equitable friends than women and other women
I think that this touches on something very interesting. I think that a lot of these toxic experiences with men being described in this thread were instances of a woman who is higher up on the metaphorical dating totem pole than the guys hitting on them.
My best friend is a married man, and I'm a single woman. We're both professionals, high earners, and conventionally attractive. I often spend time with his wife as well as him, and we're all very open about the fact that we see each other as attractive. There is NO sexual tension. I would jump his bones in an instant if his wife would let me, and I'm sure if his wife gave him a "hall pass" I'm the first person he'd talk to. But he's loyal to his wife, and I'm respectful of their relationship, and he has a perfectly good source of sex, and if I want to go on a date trying to intrude on their marriage is far from my only option. Because we're both satisfied in our love lives, it's easy to be friends. We're on equal footing. Maybe if we were both single or if he were the cheating type it would be different.
Basically what I'm saying is, the source of a lot of these problems is men and women on unequal romantic footing, where one or both parties feels that their opposite sex friend is their only option, or that they have limited options.
With men one thing regarding friendship is easy. When they are your friends and say so themselves they're not bullshitting. Men are simple in emotions and thus more honest.
Cant count the number of hoes who act all friendly and then gossip about your ass behind your back. If men dont want to be your friends they simply wont, and its easy to notice when they just want that sweet pussy and dont care about you
>>31439>I generally only talk to guys in public spaces if i want something from them, like a free drink.
Not sure I should be visiting this website anymore if this is the type of person I'm surrounded by. That's 100% literal sociopath territory. You really should seek professional help.
Welcome to the underbelly of the internet, boy
. That specific post might be from a guy pretending to be a girl, but not every one in this thread is.
People can be pretty awful, both men and women. You should know that by now.
You can only be friends with men if you accept that they want to either have sex with you, date you or keep you as an absolute last resort for when they have no one to sleep with
They can never be true friends to women and that's that. The only exception is probably gay men tbh
I've seen straight guys talk about listening to their female "friends" talk about their feelings, complaining about how it makes them feel "dirty and used like an emotional handkerchief"
They don't care about the feelings or lives of any women they haven't fallen in love with or felt a degree of lust toward. They're just not capable of that. They do not do favors out of real kindness, but as a means to an end that may or may not come to pass. What separates a good guy friend from a shitty one is that the shitty one will be upset about you not giving him what he wants. The good one will just deal with it because he knows the favor made you like him more anyway
I hang out with guys sometimes because they can be interesting for conversation and even cool, but in the end, I know what they want and keep them at a comfortable arm's length unless I plan to get into an actual relationship with them
I don't understand why all women aren't the same. Naivete will fuck you up lol
>>33412>"dirty and used like an emotional handkerchief"
The best one I've heard is "emotional tampon".
When I first heard of the idea that men hated listening to women talk about emotional things or just their daily lives but wanted relationships with them(/us), I was very confused. I wondered, how are you going to develop a strong bond with your partner if you don't share your feelings and other such things with each other? But then I realized that men only valued female company for sex and as arm candy.
>I don't understand why all women aren't the same. Naivete will fuck you up lol
They still believe romcoms and shoujo manga are real.
The best is the guy who orbits you, tells you his issues and say he'll always be there for you, but gets all uncomfortable whenever you talk about real emotional shit going on in your life with him.
Posts like these make me feel grateful for my male friends tbh. The two closest have blatantly rejected me, one of whom I pursued for years hardcore. Yet we're still going strong.
Not to give false hope (stay wary, since most of them aren't like this and I still have the type you mentioned) but damn. I'm thankful for these two.
>>33416>>I wondered, how are you going to develop a strong bond with your partner if you don't share your feelings and other such things with each other?
In fairness to men, that's not how they develop strong bonds with other men, either. Sharing feelings is a burden to them no matter who is sharing with them.
nta, but then why is it so common for men to use their female friends as therapists? It happens the other way too ("emotional tampons," as discussed), but many men also dump their sads on female friends. You know, because their male friends don't want to hear it. I've had male friends say "I can't discuss stuff like this with the guys" and another just dumped all of his trauma on me within the first week (god bless him).
Admittedly I'm fine with dating someone and having it be a one way street (he vents to me but I never vent to him) since I can get that elsewhere and generally see dating as caring for a boy rather than partnership, but I can see why some women want it to be equal. If they're the type to want to discuss things with their life partner, it may seem "unfair."
You caught me, I'm a khv at 21.
But I can extrapolate from current close relationships (such as with my mother) that I'm more comfy listening to others' problems than venting my own. Unless it's something super serious (suicidal ideation, sh, a big life decision, etc.) I prefer to keep it to myself or post it anonymously than bother anyone unless they ask specifically.
I also like pet care. And what's a boyfriend but I big, talking pet? Obviously it's more complex than that, but as far as care goes I'm fine. At least I wouldn't have to clean his poo.
I would prefer a partner who washes himself though. That's definitely a standard I have. Otherwise I think I'd be fine cooking/clothing/spoiling him, as long as he's cute and loyal and puts out.
What complications would you foresee, though?
Maybe you just know more traditionally masculine men than I do then, kek. Or I've known men who really do separate male-male and male-female bonding but appreciate the differences of both.
>>33468>>nta, but then why is it so common for men to use their female friends as therapists?
I think that's actually just a meme. I don't think guys actually open up emotionally to women unless they're in a pretty serious relationship with them, and then it's a sign of actual intimacy, not free therapy. That's been the experience for me and my friends at least.
I think you’re perceiving this the wrong way. Men in society are taught stoicism above all else. This is good when they need to stay focused on a hunt, or defending your village, but in modern society, there is no defining moment. Look at the massive rise of escapism. You can look at that and say, why don’t you get a job, or, when the facade breaks down, why are you so sad and incompetent? But that doesn’t answer the underlying issues. There needs to be some goal, no matter how significant, whether it be a relationship, or climbing Mount Everest, or cataloguing butterflies. But there’s an apathy in modern life that is very difficult to break. It feels like everything has been done before, and everything will end in failure. This apathy is a more insidious form of modern depression, and a relationship cannot function under such terms, at least for long. People fill their lives with frivolities; more money, a bigger house, more wasted time, in attempt to unsuccessfully fill this void. Of course, this is only one side of the equation, but I am merely attempting to speak from your perspective. There’s a reason divorce rates are so high. A relationship needs to function both ways, even more so in such difficult times (mental, if not physical), as these. I hope you understand what I’m saying. Your perspective is interchangeable between most people that have never been in a fulfilling relationship. I haven’t either, but I have observed quite a few.
Maybe it is the current generation; there’s no hope left.
I think I understand what you're saying, although I'm unsure of how exactly you're applying this to relationships. Are you saying that relationships must offer a "challenge" all the time? I don't want to play mind games with anyone, a divorce would be preferable to forcing myself to do that.
Or are you saying by supporting a man in every way I'm making his life and the relationship boring? I've had this discussion before, but I'm not stopping him from having hobbies or anything. Or from us spending time together learning new skills or camping or something. Part of the deal is that I support him so he keeps me company in life, you know? And there are a lot of things on earth to do and see. There are a lot of small goals to achieve and feel fulfilled over.
Maybe I see it differently since I'm easily impressed and enjoy routine anyway. I honestly don't
feel the apathy you describe, although I have felt suicidal it wasn't really because of apathetic depression (it was self hate). If all men need constant excitement then maybe I am better off dating.
Anyway this all stemmed from men having no interest in women's emotions (even if they're dating), so how do you feel about that anon? If no men care then I won't force it for the sake of…challenge?
My best guy friend does this and I tell him to fuck off if he's just going to whine at me without accepting advice/a solution. At that point he might as well be talking to a wall, so I don't need to be part of the conversation. I don't like wasting my time talking to people who are upset.
>>31417>my friend is pretty but she is 400lbs>but she is 400lbs>but>400lbs
you say that like it's nothing
I couldn't think of a good conclusion at the time, but in essence, it's platitude of don't look for a relationship for the wrong reasons. You seem obviously aware of this,>I don't want to play mind games with anyone, a divorce would be preferable to forcing myself to do that.
But that's contrary to your previous post of>listening to others' problems than venting my own>big, talking pet
A relationship is a two-way street, and I think that's particularly important nowadays since there are just very few necessary distractions. No one is choking to death in a coal mine, no one is getting eaten by wild animals, infant mortality is microscopic. Which are all good things, but they're also distractions. There's no big distractions nowadays, it's all frivolity like Netflix.
A cousin of mine is getting a divorce, and I knew from the start it was a doomed relationship started for the wrong reasons. A lot of issues I won't get into here, but the point is you can't force things to function.
I don't know the absolute answer, and it's hard to find someone who cares, but attempting to force a relationship simply does not work unless you never interact, in which case it isn't a relationship. Self-sacrifice only works if it is mutual.
Everyone here, and if you look at r9k or any of the other boards on 4chan, has a very pessimistic view on this. Like it's some awful tragedy that men and women can't be friends, or that women are evil because they just use male friends as emotional tampons, or men are evil because they just want to have sex.
Why does it have to be such a tragedy that men and women can't be friends? I think it's perfectly acceptable that men should befriend men, and that women should befriend women. We all experience life differently, but men have far more in common with each other than they do with us (and vice versa).
That doesn't mean you can't be friendly or polite or acquaintances with men, it just means don't seek them out for friendship. And any reasonable man would do the same with women - we are not going to understand each other. I don't think that needs to be a sad or bitter truth, that's just… how things are. If that makes sense.
You're right, but that just makes me want to be a lesbian. I'll never be able to have a real, true connection with a man the way I have with a good female friend. So what's the use of being straight.
You're actually making me reflect a bit anon, perhaps I should seek someone who does have some interest in me as a person. I think it's just easier to "settle" with someone who will do most of the talking/venting since then I don't have to overcome my issues and I have a favour to hold above his head. But really I think it would be nice to have someone who cares about me at least a little, so that my self esteem in the relationship isn't based on me doing x and y things for him.
It's complicated though, and the chance of finding someone to connect with seems difficult. But maybe it is healthier to look for an actual "relationship" rather than just "companionship," since they are a bit different. And you're right, it should be easier to focus and eliminate these complications since we have nothing distracting us…but it seems instead we're just ignoring them.
Thanks anon, I guess. Maybe I still have a ways to go with my self-esteem and other problems.
Well, I was only talking about strictly platonic friendships. I think men and women can have a strong emotional connection, ie be good friends, if they're in a relationship with each other.
The crux of the issue is attraction. All of the "friendships" people are talking about here are one-sided; either the girl likes to boy and not vice versa, or the boy has unrequited feelings for the girl (much more common I'd guess).
In a relationship, that's not an issue. You're having sex, so it's not like one person has ulterior motives to "befriend" the other. In the same way, men and women can be friends if they are mutually unattracted to each other.
Both of these situations are much more rare than unrequited attraction, which is why "in general" men and women can't be friends. You just have to find someone who doesn't want to sleep with you, who you don't want to sleep with.
>>33567>You just have to find someone who doesn't want to sleep with you, who you don't want to sleep with.Or
find someone who you want to sleep with, who wants to sleep with you. Then you can be dating, and also be friends.
Once you "do it" he's most likely going to cad out.
How do you know that? Is every man the same?
I swear to god you people are the same as the incels on r9k. Absolutely no self-awareness and an expectation
of getting wifed up by Chad, just like r9k expects
Stacy to be dating them.
Stop aiming for people who are obviously going to hurt you. I know you have such a strong innate desire to get a bad boy but I say the same to incels: try to get to know a person at least a little bit, and unless you're completely autistic, you should have a pretty good
idea of whether or not they're just going to use you.
I'm just saying that if they're trying to lay you, then they probably don't have the purest of intentions. It's a pretty obvious sign.
>>33578>every man who wants to sleep with you has bad intentions
Do you not plan on dating men..?
I've seen het relationships work out, believe it or not.
I'm not really religious, but I see the point of things like chastity, or abstinence.
>>33259>Cant count the number of hoes who act all friendly and then gossip about your ass behind your back
And that behavior's due to emotional complexity?
>>33259>Cant count the number of hoes who act all friendly and then gossip about your ass behind your back.
Don’t @ me like that
Normal, "non-Chad" men also pump and dump like "Chads" do.
The reality is that there's no real way to judge someone's character by their looks. It helps to be more direct.