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Please read the rules! Last update: 04/27/2021

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How did you find Crystal.cafe? Anonymous 5306

I'm a newbie and found this place by accident

I found a link in a PULL thread and I'm so happy I'm here, everyone seems so collected and nice.

Anonymous 5307

FB64137E-F411-4E9D…

Welcome!

Anonymous 5309

Lolcow

Anonymous 5318

>>5306
Lolcow as well.
I'm glad u found out about this place from PULL though, I thought no one from there even noticed the thread

Anonymous 5344

Lots of searching after it was mentioned in a 25+ femamon thread on 4chan. I'm so happy I found this place. Is this relatively new?

Anonymous 5346

>>5344
Its 3 months old iirc, it's a baby.

Anonymous 5347

>>5346
I kind of got that vibe. Good to know, now I don't have to kick myself for only finding out about it now. Thanks!

Anonymous 5351

>>5306
Lolcow.

As you said, people here are nice, but I like the dose of reality lolcow offers.

Anonymous 5426

newfag on 8/b/ wantet to start a raid on this place and was called a faggot for it.
made me curious so im checken you out.

Anonymous 5433

>>5306
lolcow! Which feels kind of ironic seeing as this place seems really focused on being kind to each other, haha, I was following that thread since it first started I'm glad to see the cafe pick up

Anonymous 5481

f92c4822-cb94-4c4d…

I also found this place from lolcow. I was longing for an imageboard like this so I'm happy.

Anonymous 5548

Either lolcow or cgl, can't remember which exactly. But it is comfy, even if it is really slow.

Anonymous 5923

Like most everyone else, on lolcow, though I found out about cc just a few days after I started lurking there. I'm definitely not new to imageboards though.

Anonymous 5957

>>5306
I seeked refuge from lolcow which became a toxic racist vile shithole

Anonymous 5965

>>5957
Lolcow isn't racist.
Most admins tag comments as ( no race .. something something ) as soon as they notice someone getting nick piked because of race IMHO.

Anonymous 5967

A user from another imageboard showed me this site.

Thanks meoww! :D

Anonymous 5988

>>5967

ps: lainchan.org

Anonymous 5990

>>5988
AYYYYYY!!!! :D

Anonymous 6028

lolcow like everyone else, but unfortunately it was through the whole spoony incident / thread on there

Anonymous 9705

my boyfriend linked it to me this morning after finding it posted multiple times on r9k! so thankful he sent me here! the positivity and helpfulness is something ive been really needing!

Anonymous 9709

>>9705
he browses /britfeel/, doesn't he?

Anonymous 9713

1502036735882.gif

found this place through lolcow too.

>>5988
another lainer! this makes me happy. this is a comfy part of the Wired.

Anonymous 9777

>>5306
/r9k/, someone was making fun of a thread here or something. I'm glad I clicked on the link, all the misogyny on that board was getting really overwhelming and you guys seem really nice.

Anonymous 9779

>>9777
It's a mixed bag, some people are nice and some people are not but I think there's a higher ratio of nice people compared to other imageboards.

Anonymous 9781

>>9779
True, I wish it was more active though…

Anonymous 9783

someone on 4/b/ wanted to raid you so i came to see what they were so mad about

i've been there forever but hate most of it a lot. i like what i've seen of this place.

Anonymous 9796

2e1eb082815e9ae497…

That's the only good thing that comes out of those stupid raids or attempts: one or two people who will actually enjoy cc will find it. I too wish we were a bit faster but we have less than a year of existence so I hope time changes things.

Anonymous 9820

I Found this place through a 4chan raid, and thought it looked /comfy/. So I stuck around.

Anonymous 9843

>>9820
Same I was a fembot on /r9k/. Once I found threw the raid.

Anonymous 9864

From krautchan (yes, I'm female)
Seems like a big improvement from lolcow but you gals still have this kind of inferiority complex (which I guess makes sense since most are from r9k) and in general don't talk about topics I'm interested in. But I like the general open mindedness and tendency to actually read posts, things that places like 4/pol/ lack. I hope someday there's a female-majority imageboard centered around global politics/tech/etc like the other good ones and little to no whining about men. Until then I'll stay on my board and come here for porn or just to check in occasionally.

Anonymous 9865

>>9864
interestingly sounds like projection lul

Anonymous 9868

>>9865
How?

Anonymous 9878

>>9864
>> I hope someday there's a female-majority imageboard centered around global politics/tech/etc like the other good ones and little to no whining about men.

We used to have /disc/ and it was perfect for that but pretty dead because of how small we are (for now). But no whining about men? How could someone create a female oriented imageboard that wouldn't see "whining" about men? It's nothing more than fair because of how they treat women online, and having a female space allows us to discuss them bluntly.

Anonymous 9893

>>9878
nta but i personally want a place that doesn't mention men because i feel like even when we separate ourselves from them they never leave. i get wanting to vent about personal stuff obviously, but general misandry/man-hate threads just remind me that men have presence everywhere and it pisses me off.

Anonymous 9916

8256caeda0e96a1287…

>>9864
Make a thread about something you want to talk about and I'll post in it sistah. There's not a whole lot of explicitly political threads here but from reading the feminism thread and /r/redpillwomen threads there is a pretty good variety of political opinions here so I bet you'd be able to generate some good discussion.

Anonymous 10176

>>9878
>It's nothing more than fair because of how they treat women online, and having a female space allows us to discuss them bluntly.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see it. Everybody gets harassed online, not just women. Particularly true for imageboards. Remember these are the same people who insultingly call normal people "normies". Either way, I've been on kc for ages and the few times I've mentioned my gender people were either mildly interested or didn't give a shit, and we continued the discussion as normal. From my experience they only harass attentionwhores (rightfully so). But if you want to go to the worst shitholes like 4/pol/ then you need to play the game and force your own memes about men being the "niggers of gender" or something. I'd definitely check out that thread :^)
IMO miners whining about men is the same thing as incels whining about women, we're better than that right?

>>9916
I've lurked a bit deeper, there's too much of a fixation on social issues/obscure crime cases which I'm not really interested in. Also not global enough since I assume most people here are from the US. But you're right, can't complain if I'm not contributing. I'll make some current event thread later to test if anyone's interested.

Anonymous 10178

I migrated from /r9k/ because I got tired of seeing porn when I wanted that feel.

Anonymous 10189

>>10178
Jsyk you did the right thing, even if cc is slow most of the time

Anonymous 10371

>>10176

>Everybody gets harassed online, not just women. Particularly true for imageboards. Remember these are the same people who insultingly call normal people "normies".


Yeah, but I think think there's a substantial difference between those two things. For one, no person reading about normies legitimately believes they're a normie. 2, being make fun of for being a nerd or a geek or a idiot is different than sexist (or racist) remarks popping up in completely unrelated discussions, it's wearying, and frustrating. Even if you don't take any stock in what they have to say about women, it's irritating being constantly reminded that angry manchildren spend the bulk of their time doing this while probably sitting at home being cared for by their mom, a woman who probably has her own dreams and goals and wants from life that are perpetually lower on the priority list than her parasite of a son.

>From my experience they only harass attentionwhores (rightfully so).


if you think that the only women that get punished are the ones who are bad, you might be surprised when the day comes that you're the one being punished, and you don't re't rmember having done anything bad. In the wake of it, the terrible, awful realization that the witches burned were innocent is the worst feeling in the world. Men punish women for being different than the person they expect them to be. we convince ourselves and each other that this isn't true by sacrificing the ones who step out of line. Yeah, some women want attention, particularly on this type of platform. some of them are just trying to cultivate ideas and meet like-minded people, though, and i don't think it's a stretch to say that this board gets raided because of its largely female userbase.

>IMO miners whining about men is the same thing as incels whining about women, we're better than that right?


agreed

Anonymous 10375

>>10176
>Everybody gets harassed online, not just women.
Women get harrassed specifcally for being women, men can get harrased for any number of things unrelated to their gender.

Anonymous 10376

>>9864
>which I guess makes sense since most are from r9k
Where does this meme even come from? This board spawned from lolcow. Most of the original userbase is from lolcow.

Anonymous 10377

>>10371
>IMO miners whining about men is the same thing as incels whining about women, we're better than that right?

Even though I agree it's obvious we will rightfully shit talk them because they come here to "RAIDDDDD XDXDXD roasties!!!!111 be my bf ):"

I feel bad for the air their breathe. But yes, I wouldn't really talk much about those guys if it wasn't for the raids (and I barely even do). I'm really glad we don't have an active man hate thread. Those just attract undesirables.

Anonymous 10378

>>10371
You hate men because some religious anglo freaks (both men and women) executed a few women hundreds of years ago?

Anonymous 10379

>>10376
I personally came from lc but that's not really true. Admin advertised us everywhere you can imagine. We're a mix of all things. We have people who came from other chans, pull, Tumblr and even Reddit. The userbase is still forming. But yeah, I doubt most of us came from lc at this point.

Anonymous 10383

>>10379
>But yeah, I doubt most of us came from lc at this point.

Then you have no idea how chans work? People on chans gravitate towards other chans. I've been using lc since 2015 and 4chan since 2005. Lc was mostly comprised of /cgl/ and staminarose users because the former stopped allowing gossip and vendetta threads and the latter closed down. People may pop in from other places but they typically can't tolerate what imageboards offer and they fuck off.

Anonymous 10388

>>10383
You can't be sure of anything regarding our userbase unless you do a poll to see who are posting now. Anything you say is mere speculation, Ms "I know how chans work", and the latest posts prove many people are NOT coming from lolcow. I think it's clear we have people over here who seem oblivious to how a chan works, hence such our new super detailed FAQ and some posts you can find in /meta/ showing some anons were terrified by the raids, which are unfortunately very normal to anyone who frequents imageboards.

Anonymous 10389

1489433601010.jpg

I was complaining to my friend about how bad /cgl/ has got and how 4chan generally has become totally unusable due to /pol/ raids. She mentioned here and it's so nice, every thread isn't the same tired buzzwords thrown around over and over.

It's crazy how much I'd normalised people constantly complaining about women too, because it's always been part and parcel of board culture. But here I can openly discuss things relating to my gender and it's so nice and I love you guys.

Anonymous 10398

>>10389
Ot asf but Makoto best gal <3

Anonymous 10402

>>10378

the witch burning was brought up in the context of a metaphor

Anonymous 10403

>>10377

>I'm really glad we don't have an active man hate thread. Those just attract undesirables.


they really do, they're an indulgence that isn't worth the amount of work it creates for the moderation team that has to clean up the messes (in my opinion, at least)

Anonymous 11881

1470154916830.jpg

>>5306
lainch and lolcow
that's it

Anonymous 11904

>>11881
lolcow for me. Now gettin comfy at lainchan due to the comments here. A female friendly cyberkpunky place? Sign me up! I mean .. Can anyone tell me if there are more women there? From the way people post i think so. Just seems more civilized and not enough incel REEEEEing going on.

Anonymous 11905

Also, I'm getting a little concerned, this chan doesn't seem as active as id like, is it going to pick up? We are a pretty young site.

Anonymous 11906

>>10403
Man hate thread or not, the men will puff and huff anyway. Just what they do. The man hate thread on lolcow really helped me with the way I view women. My view of my own gender has been fucked up through years of browsing male dominated chans. Thank you ladies.

Anonymous 11907

through a raid.
loved the feel of this place, so i decided to stay!

Anonymous 11908

1484338016371.png

>>11904
Well, I wouldn't say any technology oriented image board is great. Usually they are filled with spergs and incels. Lainchan is no excuse, if you dive deep down (discord groups and places they usually chat) you'll find out that their community is filled with your average delusional /pol/tard with a unjustified hate for woman and people of color. I don't mind them too much because I'm used to reading their comments but I don't really feel like talking to these people on discord.
I still visit lainchan and arisuchan sometimes because I like some of the personal experiences/feels threads.

Anonymous 11909

>>11908
Thanks for the reply anon didn't expect any and it's pretty hard to gauge gender when it comes to most chan posts. Before late last year I didn't even know women browse /pol but apparently lots do. I don't think all of pol is bad really, but there is a lot of unjustifiable incel hatred. I also subscribe to a lot of fringe youtube channels and happened to post a completely innocent comment directly related to what was said in the video but got a "fuck off, whore" reply from an incel-ly poster who subscribes to Roosh V which pretty much 100% means incel or pol poster.

Anonymous 11910

>>11907
Poetic justice that those raids only get women to come here and don't really accomplish anything worthile in the end. Free advertisement?

Anonymous 12425

>/b/tard since 2006
>had dream a week ago that i was in a restaurant called crystal cafe
>surrounded by everyone i’ve ever known all talking to me
>google maps for days wondering if its a real place in my city
>accidentally hit google instead of maps
>oh shit imageboard
>oh shit it has /b/

i’ve been here 4 days and don’t know why, reality is stranger than fiction.

Anonymous 12426

>>12425
The name really sounds clicheic, maybe you and the board owner were inspired by the same things since you came up with the same idea.
>>11910
In fact, they win. Hope you don't think an influx of /pol/tards, regardless of their gender is any good. If they try to colonize us just like they did with other boards this place has turned to shit.
Also, I came here from /r9k/. I'm not a fembot, nor do I browse that place regularly, just google searched an image and one of the sources was this place.

Anonymous 12469

>>11904
i wonder how you got that impression from lainchan since most of the threads and posts are nothing but shitposting/bait and uninteresting at best.

arisuchan on the otherhand is comfy and has real, interesting discussion.

Anonymous 31357

bumping for any new miners

Anonymous 31362

someone on lolcow posted asking about "another imageboard for women that started with a 'C'" that they couldn't remember the name of. Someone posted the link and boom. Here I am and I love it.

Anonymous 31370

>mill around as a silent little underage b& on 4chan since highschool
>make lifelong habit of dropping in from time to time
>check up on r9k one day
>see emerald.eatery mentioned
>give it a google
>oh my god a ladychan

Maybe it's corny to get emotional but finding a hive of women who are genuinely like me after being a fish out of internet water for most of my life gave me The Good Feelings.

Anonymous 31382

tuH4gqZ.gif

>>31370
>>31362
happy to have you here friendos

Anonymous 31386

ylis is on the speed again

Anonymous 31468

B1RGkImCIAAH0Ft.pn…

I searched for "fakeboi" in google image search, saw "/b/" in a picture's url, and here I am. Admin must be good at SEO

Anonymous 31689

>>5306
A link to this website was posted on a thread on 4chan's /int/, the thread was about how the board would look like if most of the anons there were female.

Anonymous 34317

photo_2018-05-30_2…

It was lolcow.farm for me as well.
I wish I had female friends I could show this place, but all of them either grew up on tumblr or are totally computer illiterate

Anonymous 34329

A thread on /co/, I was sort of excited, but really this place has been a disappointment.

Anonymous 34332

>>34329
Those slow imageboards can seem strange when you're used to 4chan, but they have their own charm

Anonymous 34354

>>34329
People underestimate the power thread-making has on slow imageboards like this. If you are disappointed by the discussion try making your own threads about a topic you are interested in and see if people respond.

Anonymous 35696

tumblr_ovw2up44PD1…

came from a thread on r9k talking about how they go on here to see what girls think of guys
i'd previously browsed wizardchan a few times and enjoyed the comfyness of a board of femanons, i do wish both were a little faster with posts so conversation could spark more rather than posting and abandoning, but this place is still quite new from what i've read so i guess it just takes time ^^

Anonymous 35784

>>35696
I was here before img existed left after realising most people here are guys pretending to be girls and trannies

Anonymous 36306

From krautchan

Anonymous 36312

>>36304
literal moid posting.

at least attempt to larp like the rest of the pathetic men who lurk here

Anonymous 36314

F5249D25-7032-4B40…

>>36304

Anonymous 36317

large.jpg

>>36314
>this reaction image

my sides anon why do you do this to me

Anonymous 36328

Got very stoned one night and thought about pink and blue crystal cafes and thought "thats the most vaporwave thing in the world!!" Then googled crystal cafe then clicked here.
Coincidentally a great site to visit stoned as well

Anonymous 36344

>>36328
Sounds fake, but I won't bother.

I think I heard about cc first when some tranny guy in a chat group talked about it. Been browsing for about a year with some brief breaks.
Funnily enough the tranny guy was arrested after he was found trying to solicit underage boys and give them titty skittles. Hopefully he's dead, fucking scum of the earth.

Anonymous 36346

>>36344
>titty skittles
care to elaborate? quick google search tells me it might be hormones but am not sure

Anonymous 36354

>>36346
Its estrogen pills.

Anonymous 36515

i found it because i was posting on 4chan a long time ago and said i was a girl and someone yelled at me and told me to fuck off to cafe and after googling it a bunch i found here
>>36344
why are trannies like this

Anonymous 36516

why.jpg

>>36515
why didnt my image upload

Anonymous 36798

>>5306
Found it via 8chan. Feel relieved to have found a tad bit more acceptance. The poor little neckbeards find a female presence so distressful it seems,

Anonymous 36894

stumbled upon lolcow and then from there to cc on the same day

Anonymous 101633

tumblr_p6gttrxsoP1…

i think im here thank to lolcow too

Anonymous 101698

Well.
You won't bellive…but my boyfriend showed me.

Anonymous 101712

>>101634
It's insanely long.

Anonymous 101715

>>101634
I really like it, but I'd recommend the manga more tbh. I feel like the anime is too slow and boring from the beginning personally.

Anonymous 101870

lc when tranny janny was banning everyone in the MtF thread. I'm glad I found this place, because I miss the GC and pinkpill threads. Bless lc for turning me from a 4chan pick me to a radfem.

Anonymous 101886

>>101698
What did he say about it?

Anonymous 101890

1539312652318.jpg

From Tumblr. There was a post by some fag who was bitching about "the emergence of female NEET subculture", ie that rn a female NEET is no longer just a faithful sidekick of the autistic basement dweller, but an autonomous entity with her own individuality, toxicity and entitlement. Someone in the notes mentioned cc and lc as femNEET-centrals (noting that cc is a lot more tame than lc lol) and so I decided to check it out.

Anonymous 101929

It was either an r9k raid, someone telling a girl to go back to crystal.cafe on r9k, from lolcow, or cgl.

Anonymous 101974

33758776-female-fo…

through google pictures by pure luck. i believe in destiny.

Anonymous 101993

>>101974
she gets her magic power via hairclips

Anonymous 102005

guy i knew used to lurk here and send me screenshots back in the day. but i don't think he does that anymore since he now has more stuff to do

Anonymous 102010

A person posted a link to here on vk

I know I'm not the only one who got here via that link so if you're from MAW I salute you sis

Anonymous 102191

>>5306
A thread on 4chan's /int/, around two or three years ago

Anonymous 102399

>>5306
>>5318
>>10379

does anyone know what PULL is?
ive already tried searching for it, maybe im just searching for the wrong things
does it still exist even?

Anonymous 102403

/leftypol/ had a thread a while back on this place (sort of) just comparing the psychotic moids on /r9k/ to the (relatively) normal people here

Anonymous 102407

>>102399
>does anyone know what PULL is?
Pretty Ugly Little Liars. A well known gossip forum that I believe has shut down.

Anonymous 102957

lolcow

Anonymous 102958

>>102407
yes, shut down a few months ago though the site was archived somewhere

Anonymous 103257

>>5306
I either saw it mentioned on /r9k/ or heard about it from a male acquaintance who visits here.

Anonymous 113635

That one 4chan post about finding this place got suggested to me on Reddit and I decided to check it out. I like the idea of 4chan except the misogyny and lawlessness, so this is great

Anonymous 113667

1620457812647m.jpg

i saw this posted on 4chan (probably) and it really stuck with me. i was thinking about it for days

Anonymous 113670

I saw mentions in a thread on lolcow that was a couple years old and had to Google around to find it

Anonymous 113681

>>113678
youre probably right. it just sort of startled me, though. you can never really know how men, even the ones you barely know, really see you. other parts of the post are pretty hyperbolic though

Anonymous 113682

lolcow, like almost a year ago now?

Anonymous 113684

>>113667
>>113678
I used to think normie, well-adjusted men in my day to day life were good. Until I discovered I was spied on and recorded in my bedroom and in the bathroom by my seemingly normal neighbour. And the other male neighbour who I thought was dependable had the balls to tell my mom (I was a teen then) she was cruel for reporting him to the police and ""ruining his life"" (turned out he had a history of spying on girls). Ever since then I've stopped assuming men around me to be good, no matter how normal and well-adjusted they seem to appear. So to me, there's at least truth in her second to last paragraph and it's based on irl experiences, not on terminally online imageboard manhate brainrot.

Anonymous 113706

>>113684
you're right to be disillusioned. people compartmentalize men waaaaay too much. "oh, only a small amount of men ever do bad." it's more like a spectrum. some will never, ever do wrong despite having all the power in the world, but many will, given opportunity and freedom. even more would if encouraged by other men.

still no reason to focus on it, other anon is right about it not being good for you.

Anonymous 113709

I cannot remember no matter how hard I try… Possibly heard of it on Lainchan?

Anonymous 113716

>>113667
I think she's just humblebragging about being attractive lol.
I've never gotten male attention, not even the creepy kind.

Anonymous 113731

>>113684
>>113690
>>113706
I think the screencap is talking about a different thing.
Yes, most men are not abusive, but the post is talking about male sexual urges in general. They are psychologically incapable of thinking about women outside the sexual context.
They will readily admit that the first thing that flashes through their mind when they meet a woman is the image of her naked.
So, men's sexuality rarely goes up to abusive levels, but they have a lower level bar, below which they can't go.

Anonymous 113793

DAMAGED

Anonymous 113802

>>113690
Sorry anon but I've got to disagree. History's proven whenever men are lawless, they rape and murder women and children en masse. The only reason we don't get mass raped today is because we've got law and punishment keeping (most) men in line and because they know they ultimately all benefit from a peaceful, lawful society.

Men-hate isn't on my mind 24/7 like screencapped anon, I'm not living my life being focused on or scared of men but I do think it's naive not to realize most men would assault/rape/do whatever they want to you if they knew they could get away with it 0 consequences.

Anonymous 113812

>>113731
ooooh, I was mostly referring to the other anon's experience. but I agree with your take too.

Anonymous 113823

I saw a random repost on twitter from one massive brainrot coomer who was posting caps from here making fun of "female 4chan"
Funny, I do occasionally visit boards, including lolcow, but never
saw any mentions of cc

Anonymous 114381

>>36312
Even the ones that do larp are kind of obvious. It's hilarious to see the way they imagine women speak between themselves.

Anonymous 116753

I found it through Tumblr. A weebfem I follow posted about it so I checked it out. Seems comfy so far.

Anonymous 116754

I saw this place mentioned on lolcow, I like it because it’s a lot less toxic.

Anonymous 116788

>>113716
yeah it reads super weird. who cares if some scrote jerks off to you? they jerk off to men with tits too. such high standards youre meeting.

Anonymous 116822

Lolcow like everyone else. I like it here, it's comfy.

Anonymous 117979

First found about this site years ago from a cute pic I found while doing a reverse image search. I posted one thing and that was it.
Then leftypol started to talk about it early in 2021, and this time I stayed. What made me stay was that they shared an old (now locked) thread on this board, and then I got curious about /media/, so that's where I started posting because leftypol's alt boards are slow.

>>102403
>just comparing the psychotic moids on /r9k/ to the (relatively) normal people here
I think I remember that thread and I remember some of them said this place had to be full of LARPing trannies (because women don't use imageboards, amirite?), or shitting on it for being radfem. But other people also said nice things, especially about that locked thread.
Now that lefty/pol/ has gone to shit and isn't as female-friendly as it used to be, I've no choice but to use this site and lolcow. I won't be able to discuss politics anymore, but at least now I don't feel paranoid about being the only biological female on an imageboard or have to deal with retarded incels.

Anonymous 117994

1628457511850.jpg

>several years ago
>come across pixielocks lc thread by googling her after YouTube recommended one her vids
>see people referencing "cc"
>curious, ask
>been loving cc ever since

Anonymous 118070

I heard about it on soyjak.party

Anonymous 118104

>>10383
What is "/cgc/"?

Anonymous 118121

>>118104
/cgl/ refers to the cosplay board on 4chan

Anonymous 118298

I found it while browsing lainchan.org

Anonymous 120057

>>5306
i read radblogs on tumblr quasi-religiously. one of them posted an anon that mentioned this place as a female alt-4chan and i was instantly hooked.

Anonymous 120070

i was introduced to this site from a former friend who was a TIM and read this "femcel board" out of curiosity…i wonder if he posts or can tell which posts are mine lmao

Anonymous 120071

>>118298
Was it from the "feminine bodied evil cabal" idiot?

Anonymous 120635

>>113667
I don't understand how you could read that screencap and not immediately think the person who made it was mentally ill

Anonymous 120652

i found it from a general on 4chan's /vg/ a few months ago

Anonymous 120690

>>120635
piss off, she is based

Anonymous 120702

>>120635
Is it wrong though? Is it?



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