Honest answers? Anonymous 7041
How's it like to be a woman in the west? I can't seem to get honest answers. MRA's and MGTOW's seem to say that being a women is better than Men in this society. Female privilege and the such. I don't really buy it. While feminists talk about patriarchy and rape culture which I can't seem to believe either. How's it like? Honest answers please?
Pic related is from a webcomic called Ava's demon btw. Recommend.
It's alright. I'd much rather be a women here than anywhere else. Men are still fucking shitbags, but through the hard work of the feminist movement they're better behaved than anywhere else. Sexual assault and harassment are still an issue, which sucks, but most of it is a) family related childhood sexual abuse as opposed to raped in the streets and b) treated as an extremely bad thing and victim-blaming is becoming less and less of a thing. We definitely don't have it better or even as good as men, but again I'd rather have this than the shit that goes on in other parts of the world.
Pretty much this, but know that if you want a job in a STEM related field, it still sucks because I feel like harassment is much more acceptable there (whether it be sexist comments or sexual harassment) than in other sectors. Still, it's much better than in other parts of the world.
What STEM are you in anon? I know engineering and CS tend to be pretty bad still, but take heart- we've taken over biology, are close to taking over math and physics, and eventually one day we'll have the rest as well.
I'm in CS, and you're totally right about all those other majors (though I switched from engineering and it was bad still). In fact, I have been taught math by more lady professors than men. Thanks for bringing that point up, I sometimes forget because i get so discouraged personally.
It's not so bad, a lot better than anywhere else. I can theoretically do just about whatever I want, but the often times unspoken drawback concerning that is safety is treated as a privilege rather than a right for women at certain times. With that said, I agree with the feminist analysis of rape culture to an extent. Everything that's been in the news recently with all of the recounts of sexual assault, harrasment, and rape following the MeToo hashtag and hollywood exposed what's been bubbling on the surface, yet some are still placing part of the blame on women for not speaking out sooner (as if women haven't been trying to draw attention to this issue for years.
..) Half of society remains as oblivious and narcissistic as ever.
I agree with everyone else saying that women in the present day west have it better than women anywhere else. Even though I know that, and I feel extremely lucky to be born in this time and place (since I just as easily could have been born in different circumstances), I still hate being a woman. I think it sucks.
I hate being seen as automatically inferior and worthless unless I'm married and having kids, since those are the only things women 'should' be doing. I hate having my intelligence and competency doubted by men. I almost feel like I was lied to growing up that men do see women as their equals, when I've since learned that they certainly don't. That makes me sad because I'd like to be in a relationship one day but I don't think I could do it now knowing how men view women. I hate when I'm dealing with clients and I just know that they would much rather be working with a man, because men are seen as more capable and women as stupid and emotional. I hate that every time I've tried to speak up about the sexism and harassment I've experienced I just get told to suck it up, don't rock the boat, or learn to take a joke. So I've learned to suck it up and keep quiet and it eats me up inside. I have one coworker in particular that always inappropriately comments on my body and it makes me want to mutilate myself so that nobody can tell what I am and maybe they would treat me normally and respect me/my work like they would a man.
I've accepted that the way things are now is as good as it can possibly get though, so I feel guilty about even getting upset at all. Overall, legally, it's fine of course. I'm lucky that I can vote, sign a lease by myself, work outside the home, support myself, and pursue the education and career I want. I realize I'm selfish for wanting more when some women don't even have those things. It's the societal attitudes about women that bother me I guess. I just really wish I weren't born a woman, but that's a useless thing to wish. It feels like constantly being the butt of a joke, and I hate it. And I hate myself for being a woman.
Currently still working to get the fuck over it and stop feeling because that's ~a woman thing to do.~
>>7076>I hate that every time I've tried to speak up about the sexism and harassment I've experienced I just get told to suck it up, don't rock the boat, or learn to take a joke. So I've learned to suck it up and keep quiet and it eats me up inside.>I've accepted that the way things are now is as good as it can possibly get though, so I feel guilty about even getting upset at all. >I realize I'm selfish for wanting more when some women don't even have those things.
Stop, this is pathetic to read. Learn to stick up for yourself. Men are typically afforded as much room to be as grandiose and self-important as they desire. This is why even neckbearded NEETs gas themselves up to the level of the second coming of Christ. Do you honestly think one would feel an ounce shame if put in the same position?
You won't be selfish for at the very least refusing to swallow the shit that other people give you. None of it is doing you any favors.
this right here.
if anything i've learned that i'd much rather people tell me i'm a bitch or something than just keep quiet. i wish we taught more women to act like this, i feel like it just becomes and endless cycle. i am proud to be a hated bitch if it means speaking my mind, not taking shit and standing up for myself.
I think this all depends on what countries you're regarding as the west and which you're regarding as "east".
I think women in the west obviously have it better than in the middle east, but some countries in the south east I've found are way more chill and safer. Especially in regards to how men are with women.
I disagree with the notion of female privilege in the west. I am treated very differently to my friends, co-workers, etc just for being a woman. There is also the issue that in a bid to "not see you as different/see you as equal" some people go full 180 flip and will literally make things so difficult for you because im not giving the girl an easy ride for being a girl muh equality. An example of this is that my lecturer is WAYY harder on me than the rest of the class, who are all boys, expecting wayy more from me than the others.
At the same time, feminism has been infected by whiny little piss babies who cry about everything. Rape culture is 100% a thing IMO but some of the things people press as issues is absurd. Also, the same people usual regard american social issues as the standard for the rest of the western world too, I was kicked out of a group for bringing this issue up. America has a very different culture, economy and sociology to most European countries so it really gets under my skin when people try to say something is fact just because it ~happens in 'merica~
If you compare a man and a woman pertaining to the same economic and social class the man will always be more privileged
than the woman. No shit he'll have it harder than someone richer (even if it's a woman), this is the claim many trp/mgtow/robots make.
For every man that wishes he was a woman -most of the times on a whim when they are children- 80 full grown women wish they were born a man, surely there must be a reason for this. Besides, as anons have mentioned above, this is how it is in the west, where the feminist movement has flourished.
And so, the thing that surprised me the most when I reached the age necessary to understand my place here, was why don't more women in the middle east and africa commit suicide or go insane.
Generally we have it well. If you're fat and ugly however that's another story. If you're socially awkward and ugly, well that's hard too.
Most MRAs, redpillers, and MGTOW are salty that attractive women like attractive men. They should all be abbreviated as SG for sour grapes. And apparently it's always our fault, it can never ever be a mans fault.
"Being a woman is better than being a man" because these people take their privilege for granted and seem to lack the awareness to see that women lack it. We are only privileged in the exact areas they're lacking in - "ease" to find sex and romantic love.
I can see how someone who's severely lacking in those areas (and obsessed about them) would think that's enough to put us above men, but fortunately, people that emotionally starved aren't the norm. For both regular men and women, women are at a disadvantage. We're patronized, belittled, treated as incompetent/dumb despite our education, etc every day.
Think of it this way: feminism, in its normal non-extremist sane form, is pretty much right. The only reason why it sounds like they're overblowing it is because they talk about and focus on ALL ISSUES brought about by sexism, whereas most women don't experience ALL THE ISSUES in EVERY SINGLE DAY of their lives.
>oh but men going to war
>oh but men dangerous jobs
You literally run the world. Politicians, CEOs, religious leaders, all powerful people are men. You're not being oppressed by women.
I think I like it more than I would like being a man, but I'm not a man so I can't say for sure. I have aspergers and I am married but many men with my condition are incels (not saying that in a mean way, it's just true.) I think it would be much harder for me to have a romantic relationship if I was a man. My husband is even supportive of me not working/only having a part-time job, but if the genders were reversed I think it would be much harder for me to find a woman who would be okay with that arrangement.
I don't think that it would be different if gender was reversed. If you partners loves you and cares about you they wouldn't care. But I still don't understand, are you saying that you can't work because of aspergers?
Men have the privilege of being able to chimp out while never taking any heat for it.
If women were statistically as violent, temperamental, prone to be mass murderers/thieves/rapists and likely abbandoners of families as men… They would have holocausted us all long ago.
Men are blind to their own hypocrisy and oblivious to their jealous and competitive fits of rage.
And should you ever dare out preforming them… they will skin you alive. In the west they just use a scalpel instead of a butchers hatchet.
Sorry for having a bitter day, I really should be laughing it off.
In an ideal world it would not matter but women tend to judge whether a man is worthy of commitment to marriage based not only on whether they mutually care for each other but also on things like "Does he know how to drive and have a car? Does he have a career path?" I don't think these things are shallow either, it would be a rare case for a woman to want to commit to someone like Chris-chan with many basic problems functioning in society and who cannot be expected to care for her. But even though I have many commonalities with Chris-chan and can barely hold down a part-time job, I have never had a problem just getting a boyfriend and I even got married to someone who chose to commit to me for life. However, your average women does not want to date or marry guys like Chris-chan.
Some people in this thread are saying that as someone who is more "normie" in the middle of the social hierarchy who would like to pursue a career over marriage that it is harder to be a woman than a man, and I believe that. However it has been my personal observation as someone lower on the social hierarchy who places a higher level of importance on pursuing dreams of having a family than work that many men in similar positions seem to have a much harder time with these things than I have had.
Almost every woman I know has been sexually harassed in some way. Thus, theoretically, being a man in the west would be ideal. Although if I have to be a woman somewhere, I'm happy that I was born in the west.
I think a lot of women feel like you anon. To the anons calling her pathetic, she's not. >>7080
Being a "hated bitch" to receive some respect shouldn't be a must. Quiet men are respected but quiet women have to stop and learn to be a bitch? That shouldn't be necessary in the first place. Why don't we teach men and our society not to discriminate and invalidate women instead of telling women to change?
To answer OP's question, I think being a woman in the west is easier than being a woman in for example Saudi Arabia. However, women don't have it easy here either as there is patriarchal tendencies in our society. Men feel, act and can sometimes be treated (usually subconsciously by others) as superior.
>>7139>Being a "hated bitch" to receive some respect shouldn't be a must. Quiet men are respected but quiet women have to stop and learn to be a bitch? That shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
You're taking everything the wrong way. Being more assertive would not make her a bitch, but there's a good chance that she'd be seen as such even if she's being reasonable. That's just how society treats women. It's also obvious that she feels deeply affected because she's being unheard, why should she have to put up with any of it just for the sake of being more agreeable to her co-workers?>Why don't we teach men and our society not to discriminate and invalidate women instead of telling women to change?
Yes, but the fact of the matter is that it's not how things are, and approaching a situation like this with idealistic expectations isn't going give a fairer outcome until that changes. All we could do is deal with things the best way we can.
Being a woman fucking sucks, the world hates us, and I can't wait to kill myself.
Unfortunately I don't believe in reincarnation but it would be nice to start over as a man.
there are some things that are good and some things that are bad about being female.
the good things include free emotional support, which I personally don't really care about so it's not a plus for me.
the negatives include being told from such a young age that you should worry about where you stand in terms of attractiveness, and in terms of how much male attention you get. i was a literal genius when i was younger and spiraled into depression and an eating disorder because I felt I wasn't good-looking enough, when I was actually much more intelligent than the rest of my age group. it was a big waste of time.
Every other subject is just degenerate mathematics. Conquer math and the rest will follow.
To put it quite simply OP, the difference is that in the west, women select men for reproduction, not the other way around. See >>7133
Quiet men are not respected.
Quiet men are used by other men.
Oh, well I guess if you say so then.
I think it depends on your definition of quiet. I do agree with you to some extent.
Hi I had the opportunity to live in EU (my country of origin is a very personal detail but just somewhere cold), Asia, Latin America and Australia
Here is what the "west" (idk if Australia counts as west)
> Masculinity is more openly abrasive
> Ageism is still a massive thing
> Being a single mother is the same in both but in the west as long as you are very good looking you can say "be proud"
> Mental health issues are more accepted than anywhere else
> as long as you stay //not fat// you won't have anyone asking you why you let yourself go
>both more relaxed yet more complicated beauty standards
the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and it always will be, for everybody. man or woman.
I never understood the idea that women can get 'free emotional support' from whom? family? therapist? men can have those too,
You don't have to live around them, you can do what you want if you make descent money, which is all I care about doing!
In a way I don't know how to answer this though because I don't know what it's really like over where you are. I don't know how to compare it to anyhere else.
Men here are a mixed bag. I think it's telling I want to live alone with a garden…vivariums… cats .. art. I'm obsessed with art and finding ways to make money on the side so I can keep making art.
I always just wanted to get out of relationships!
It's pretty good but it doesn't come without it's problems. But it does depend on what part of the "west" you are talking about. Some places are dangerous especially for women, like some shithole cities, but most places are ok. Where I am from we don't really have all this MGTOW/Patriarchy squealing divisive bullshit. Largely the men are respectful and so are the women and if you talked about that stuff to them they'd look at you like you were mad so perhaps I am not one to talk about this. But i look abroad and everyone is agitating eachother and divided about everything.
But at the end of the day, men are still men and women are still women no matter where you go.
This thing "rape culture" I think is very hyperbolic. It isn't all that common as you would call our culture a rape culture. So how I see it, there will be an accusation of rape, and people instantly take sides. No one actually knows shit but on the one side people don't want to disbelieve a victim and on the other, people don't want to jail someone for mere slander. Now, I have seen someone I know lose a case when she was actually raped, and I know for a fact she was. And I have also seen a man I know get jailed for rape when I know he didn't do it and the bitch was lying. Shits fucking retarded you might as well play Russian roulette, but what other way can we do things?
But there is a problem where some people partially blame the woman for doing something that "incites" being raped.>yes, the rapist is to blame. But you also should had known better, you were being stupid>you lead him on. You knew he was a scumbag
But you won't be seeing rapes happening left and right and people thinking rape is ok. Yet it still happens.
Emotionally starved men are often mostly sexually starved…incapable of turning to another male and getting anything out of him emotionally–it's because men are, on average, less generous and prosocial with their time. Women being more prosocial on average is a huge reason why women are more likely to get ahead socially (women get 0 credit for it but men definitely want a piece of that pie) but also be exploited more for their support and care.
The average guy would rather watch teen porn than go out of his way for another guy. Men can go to therapy, read books, etc., to improve how they connect to others. They won't.
99.99% of the men terrified of getting a woman pregnant would never inform themselves about male birth control methods.
Water is wet.
Boys calling one another fag on the schoolyard is, mostly, their idea. Astonishing. A lot of these issues are, simply, male-on-male socialization with a dash of Society. You need giant steel balls to, as a man, actually grapple with these issues without putting the emphasis on society being at fault and accountable.
And, yes, I'm well aware it can hurt men. I don't care. Most of the ability to improve male loneliness is in mens' hands–they're the gender that's several times more likely to abandon ill spouses, too.
The emphasis perpetually being put on women is because men find it hard to actually go out of there way in the long-run for another guy. Why? Because it doesn't really appeal to their cocks and doesn't give them enough dopamine.
Likewise, a male that pretty much sees women has being the only ones capable to make him less lonely and be supportive is kind of emotionally broken and is a hazard for most people to be around. That's it. Case closed. It's like how short men are on average more violent. Male insecurity doesn't equal male kindness unless a ulterior motive (sexual desperation) is attached. The bottom % of people shouldn't procreate. Big surprise. Many of us here are probably in that category, lol, oof.
I have a friend. She's fat and kind and lovely. She was friendly to everyone and gave away support freely.
Most of the men tried shooting their shot at her sexually, even if they were 4x her age and married. Half of them lashed out and accused her of giving them signals/leading them on.
She was a wait-till-marriage, modest Christian that was pretty much horrified beyond belief by this and did the logical choice: not being as friendly to men as she is women and just sticking to men that aren't sexually depraved (a massive amount of the bottom % of men). Loser males actually often perceive a woman humanizing them as a woman sexualizing them, and then design their victimhood and hatred around the idea that they think humanizing a male = sexualizing him. It's hilarious and karmatic t b h.
To act like women have a hand in mens' loneliness is to also imply that women should give men free sex. Men are so sex-focused and will be dishonest or opportunistic in relation to it, then lie "these men just want LOVE". Mostly, no, that's never just it in most cases.
If they liked that, they wouldn't bitch about the friendzone so much.
It's why a lot of men who bring up male issues - IDK if you're a male or not but you drop their talking points - basically end with "you better support him and unconditionally suck his cock forever and ask for nothing."
Nah. It's just that women are more victimized when they lower their guard to the opposite gender, and no amount of "m-men have it as bad" or victim blaming will fix the essential issues involved or what feminism itself tends to focus on or how much of the boundaries that could actually palpably keep a woman safe from a questionable male are often offensive to men.
Inevitably, often humanizing a loser male goes back to "b-but you don't want to fuck him!" as being said as if it's a bad thing and deletes any thought or compassion you throw his way–or at least that's what incels claim, because they all have stockholm syndrome with the idea that the only valid love is attached to sex and being seen as a 10/10. Only a minority aren't like that.
A lot of female amicability and pliability is good for men in the short-term, but often has a bad effect on women.
Likewise, abstract things like men working dangerous jobs is a MRA meme-tier talking point. It's valid in bigger picture discussions but acting like feminists need to manage such a thing is…odd–so, feminists should talk about male issue ever have even if it's more of a secular issue that most effects men, with the perp often being…richer guys taking advantage of their labor? Aren't most people aware of this? Will bringing attention to it encourage discussions that'll socialize people in a way that rich people will stop putting consenting men in bad positions because they'll replace the jobs with robots? I mean, at least that makes more sense than bringing it up just to coddle men.
Is it because mean jobs are misandry? IDK, man, IDK.
"well, the bottom % of men suffer because of society, therefore, women should give the most desperate men sex and coddle them" while the majority of the same men slut shame and end up actually giving little value to women that would date any loser male (which is, again, very, very beneficial for such men but means down the line he'll probably jump ship or have an affair with a young woman while she spent years with him at his worst).
Most men that claim they just want a woman are speaking from the perspective of a depraved beggar. They're hungry. It means little.
Women can't fix it if a man has an abyss inside him and it's often stupid to attempt it, 5x so if his life sucks and he's incapable of basic functioning.
Even in spite of that, more women than men meaningfully coddle male victimhood. Yep. I said it. Throw that in with women technically being victimized by men in usually worse and more frequent ways by men than the other way around. The dynamics involved in issues that affect each gender are, unsurprisingly, different.
Victim blaming manifested into existence to artificially try equalizing things and bringing attention away from simple common trends, trends that exist even if you argue that men have it the worst in society overall, trends that mostly only women have to consider when associating with the opposite gender.
Women are often gullible fucks that often can be emotionally guilt tripped. The new power plays men do are different.
Pragmatic women can, at most, just have a distant role in helping such issues among men that can't fuck as often or easily but, again, there's no fixing it if it is in any way related to sex as it entails women being charity-broodmares for men that are more likely on average to just be bad partners with pretty much no safety network around them, and it feeds into the ultimate toxic thing among men:
how obsessed they are with sex…while kind of objectifying women and ignoring most of what women do and sacrifice (I've seen many men admit in one way or another they give 0 fucks for what women sacrifice or how much they work even though a lot of it is necessary, they pretend only men have to work)…while also holding what men do perpetually over women like some sort of threat. Of course, this is often weird internet male/MRA/incel/redpiller talk I refer to, but yeah, we're talking about most of the bottom % of males here.
it's really retarded for women to coddle desperate, broken men who just want something with the right hole, the bottom % of men not being humanized goes both ways (many of them don't even humanize OTHER men in any meaningful way besides trying to martyr their in-group), and there is 0 reconciling any of this as long as it goes back to such men wanting to be treated to endless altruism by the gender that in most statistical cases has more to lose in a relationship.
Oh. Yeah, a lot of men passionately hate and dehumanize single mothers because it's essentially a corrective means of lowering the status of the consequences of getting with any fertile male–ugly included (which is an idea that is actively suppressed bc you can no longer pull the "she must have tried getting with a 10/10" card). If women were more careful in accordance to how demonic and punishing a lot of men frame single motherhood (and to an extent, regular motherhood) as, it'd actually mean infinitely less casual sex and, funnily enough, more functional incels.
Who knows? Even perfectly passing trannies can't see everything both sexes go through. I like being a woman personally, at least more than what I imagine being a man is like. If I were really career oriented or had a different disposition I would probably hate myself for it
this is my favorite post on this site
Speak softly and carry a big stick. "Quiet" men can be imposing if they are stoic.
You're thinking of "meek" men.
any westerner weirdly fixated with gender ideology/roles in any way is delusional so of course their narratives are also delusional.
They think we all have hundreds of guys messaging us on discord, snapchat, insta ect. Wrong. Not all of us are bombarded with attention and people dying to be our friends like they think
There are many issues both way. Everyone is going insane. pls nuke