>>82811>This is not a fair comparison and I would dare say a false equivalency because by merit of a delusion or an emotion being "not real" you are attempting to discredit them from having any true merit equivalent to a material item when both the material object and the emotion each have a value and are very real in the same sense as they can be of benefit or detriment the individuals well being.
Then give me the metric by which an emotion is real but a schizophrenic's delusions aren't. Both effect a given person's behavior and one demonstrably not real. Explain to me what the difference is between a delusion and an emotion as felt as a qualia.
>What proof is needed whne this is based on observation of the gain loss model I would argue instead show an alternate force behind peoples conscious actions but I will think more about some way to proof it despite it seeming obvious to anyone who introspects behind the cause of their actions.
Yes we established this, the obvious conclusion to yourself is obvious. It's a tautology.
>in what way are they not real when very obviously they are the driving force behind many choices? maybe I am not understanding what it is you mean by emotions not being real because unless I am mistaken it seems like a silly point to be making.
When you are angry and your face gets red, that is real, but the anger isn't real. When you are sad and you cry tears, the crying tears is real, the qualia of feeling sad is not real. The use of "real" in this context refers to physical. The color blue is not real, it's a particular wavelength that you mind interprets as real. If you don't understand the basic concept of what a qualia then you really don't have the first clue what you're talking about. Would explain why you used "metaphysical benefits" to refer to emotions when the two have only tangential relations with each other.
Prove to me that emotions exist. Not that people cry tears or smile, prove to me that the qualia of emotion is real and not imagined or mentally experienced solely. You experience them, you react to them, but they are flames created by your own mind that only exist in your mind.
Humans react to things that aren't real all the time, it's kind of the entire point of cognition. Do you think hypotheticals are real because you can imagine them?>>82812> I'm not sacrificing my own desires to feel superior and I'm not such a doormat that I'm completely selfless,
See? You're already halfway there, now that you've 1. assumed all actions are based in selfishness and are thus transactional and 2. decided that you are morally superior, you are going to forgive all sorts of things you do because they aren't that
bad. Fucking pathetic.
>I just exercise self control in situations where doing the right thing is less than appealing to me, much better than being shitty just because that would be more enjoyable.
Excuse me? You enjoy
your hatred and acting on it? That's kind of gross.> I think you're kind of appalled by the idea that it's morality is partially about self sacrifice,
I'm not appalled by the idea of morality being about self-sacrifice, I'm appalled by the concept that self-sacrifice is just living with your negative emotions as opposed to changing them, and even worse, the more negative emotions you have the more moral you are. Fucking monstrous. You can self-sacrifice without hating yourself.>just because you wouldn't feel guilty about hurting someone or even enjoy it doesn't suddenly mean you should and just because you hate someone in need doesn't mean you shouldn't help them
I never stated that emotions don't have value or influence human behavior. I quite plainly stated that emotions effect human behavior the same way that a schizophrenic's delusions effect the schizophrenic's behavior. Just because it isn't real doesn't mean it can't have an effect. It's like saying that the plans for a building don't have any effect on the construction of said building.>do I kill stacy who is being a bitch to me even if I can get away with it and live with the guilt or do I put up with her as the guilt is not worth it
If guilt, happiness or sadness were anything other than illusions maybe, but they're illusions that a lot of people just happen to be trapped in.>u can also not kill Stacy despite the fact you wouldn't feel much guilt over it and that you could get away with it easily if you're committed to not killing people on principle
Ah yes, harmless as opposed to peaceful. Totally not a doormat.