/b/ - Random

>>87728
Women choose less violent methods to kill themselves. A woman who takes pills is less likely to die than a man who goes with the shotgun option.

>>87730
That, and the average woman is less likely to have access to firearms/know how to acquire them in the first place.

Women instinctively avoid violent methods because we're empathetic and don't want to traumatize our loved ones. Violent methods are more successful, but they often include shit like throwing oneself off a building, driving a car the wrong way down a road (both likely to kill other people and ruin the lives of strangers), or shoot themself in the head (leave loved ones with the final memory of them blown to pieces)

Even when we try to die we put others first. Women generally choose methods that leave an intact body behind such as pills or gas inhalation that wouldn't traumatize people that find them, versus men who don't care about who has to clean their brains off the wall.

>>87730
Okay, maybe I phrased my question badly. Why do women choose less violent methods of suicide?

>>87733
>>87734
I can't articulate why this doesn't sound 100% correct, as someone who has never felt suicidal I suppose I don't understand being empathetic enough to want a clean death for loved ones, but still initiating one of the most tragic experiences a loved one can experience. Is the method really that important to the trauma of the experience?

They say our attempts are for attention because they can’t ever let down the idea that women are vapid and self centered. They build a feeling of suffering around other men’s actions and believe it’s the worst pain ever, especially over the inferior women with inferior feelings right?

>>87735
because we're socialized to consider more things, just in general. men are rewarded for being impulsive tards with no forethought or consideration. the not wanting to traumatize is definitely a big part of it, but there's also something viscerally offputting about using a gun or violent methods. surely there must be a better way (and there are, not just pills, though some pills do work perfectly, it just takes much strategy to get them)

this topic is so ironic because literally every guy i'd spoken to romantically ended up threatening suicide to manipulate me. more men use it for attention and manipulation than women do imo.

>>87740
yes, my aunt's father shot himself and the kids were forever affected by seeing his brain and skull fragments all over their parents bedroom

I don't believe that women are too stupid or gutless to off themselves, when they actually want to. I also think that suicide statistics are flawed, self-harm and suicide are two different things, men are more likely to self-harm in less obvious ways that don't get interpreted as suicide attempts, like drug abuse, but it still doesn't explain why men are more likely to off themselves in the end. So, i think that's because there is less incentive for men to do these cry-for-help type of deals because they are less likely to receive help, men are more likely to get annoyed by displays of weakness in other men, from a biological standpoint there is nothing to gain by saving a useless tribe member, in most animal species, when it comes to producing offspring, male lives are more expendable than female lives, humans are no different and human society reflects that.

>>87755
>male lives are more expendable than female lives
obviously
>from a biological standpoint there is nothing to gain by saving a useless tribe member
this isn't true though, pre-historic tribes of humans have been found to shelter and care for mentally/physically disabled members, including those with down syndrome who by any means should not have been able to survive prehistoric conditions but skeletons of down syndrome having individuals aged 10-20 have been found

>>87728
I've only had one female friend who's been suicidal. She explained her thought process, including how she got to planning it out. She was going to use a gun to the base of the brain, but thought that would be too much cleanup. So she planned to use the pills she had (she had already sought treatment for the issue). So I think the reason is 1. women are typically in charge of cleaning and know how much it sucks, and 2. women typically have access to pills or something like that because they've already sought treatment, whereas men tend to either ignore the issue or be ignored more often? Maybe. Not ignored by doctors, but told to 'toughen up' by family/peers/society. Also I don't see it as a failure tbh. I think having a 'cry for help' and stoping yourself from actually going through all the way is more impressive than giving in to the craving completely.

>>87770
shhhshhh, you can't burst the bubble of the upper middle class pigheaded bambinos still sucking on their daddies teets who worship social darwinism despite being fully parasitic failures floating off the successes of their family members

Suicide attempts are meant to be a cry for help/attention. Only a complete fucking idiot would actually kill themselves over a suicide attempt.

>>87735
Die young leave a pretty corpse

>>87802
All corpses bloat and rot turning ugly eventually anyways.

>>87735
I don't know why the fuck the other anons are going on and on about empathy but I think the reason why women don't choose violent methods is because we're scared(for lack of a better word) of what will happen if we don't succeed withh a violent method.

>>87770
Could be those cripples were the only children of tribe leaders, exceptions really, most abominations were left for the wolves to snack on or thrown off the cliffs, prehistoric people lacked medical knowledge and couldn't have known what down syndrome is, they might have assumed its someone possessed or blessed by spirits. Also being prehistoric doesn't make one also heartless, they could have taken cared of cripples just because they had food to spare, but in tougher times they might have eaten them first instead.

>>87782
t. >>86770

>>87740
Fear of what happens if I fuck up is the reason I won't touch guns. I'd rather grab a rope. It's clean, has a high success rate, and if I somehow survive I won't be forced to undergo reconstructive surgery.

>>87826
Same, only a fool would try to suicide with present day sleeping pills, they are ineffective as fuck, hanging on the other hand is quick and painless.

Men use guns and women use drugs.

One makes it easy the other is harder

The people that fake suicide attempts fake multiple attempts. Things like BPD and narcissism manifest themselves differently in men and women, and for those disorders the forms of manipulation will vary.

Moids think it's the average female doing it for attention, but really it's more that one BPD whore can easily rack up 40 "suicide attempts". Those are recorded in the stats alongside those who failed to take too many drugs or those who survived a jump from height.

>>87985
Me too.

>>87941
My family knows I don't want to be a vegetable. Are you implying I won't be in a similar situation but also being "I have no mouth but I must scream" if I fucked up using a gun anyway? Hanging is the best way to do it if you can't commit to a violent way out.

>>88008
I don't support your suicidal ideation but just a heads up you definitely want something in writing more than "my family knows". Emotions obviously run high if your child is hanging on by a thread and tbh if it were me and they didn't have an official DNR order I would keep them on life support until I knew for sure there was no coming back.

>>87728
>That’s mainly due to two things: “One is that men use more lethal means [to attempt suicide], and the second is that they don’t seek care as much,” says Simon Hatcher, vice-chair of research for the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Ottawa.
>Men are more likely to use firearms and other deadly methods, while women are more likely to use pills. These differences might be because men are more comfortable with guns. Or it might be that, as some researchers have suggested, they’re choosing more extreme methods because they’re more suicidal in the first place.
https://healthydebate.ca/2017/08/topic/male-suicide/
^The above is consistent with what I've heard/read. It's definitely not "attention seeking" behavior

>>87743
Exactly– using suicide as an attention-seeking manipulation tactic is definitely not exclusive to women, and I'd wager it's more common in males

>>88114
>they’re choosing more extreme methods because they’re more suicidal in the first place.
This seems to be saying the same thing with different words. How is attempting suicide for attention different from being "less suicidal" in general compared to the hypothetical man he presents?

>>87743
>>88115
Are we defining attempting suicide as actually going through with the attempt, or does it also include threatening it? If the former, no I hard disagree the data says woman do this more often, if the later, than yes I could agree that men threaten ending their own lives more often.

>>88130
>being "less suicidal" in general compared to the hypothetical man he presents?
I'd imagine it's the difference between "I wanna die" and "I wanna kill myself"
Not that I think he's right, but I think that's what he means by "less suicidal"

I think men who commit murder-suicide are included in the statistic - the type who kill their families and then themselves. And what about suicide by cop? Women commit far less violent crime which would prompt such men to commit suicide. If males want to talk about which is the inferior degenerate sex then why is it that men overwhelmingly rape and murder despite guns, the great equalizer?

>>88154
and similarly, what about suicide post serious crime? a lot of men kill themselves because they've irredeemably fucked their lives up and don't want to deal with the consequences

It’s boring to just sit there and wait to bleed to death after you slit your wrists or wait to pass out after you took an overdose. If you actually wanna kys you should just shoot yourself in the head.

Because modern medicine is really good and can repair a lot of broken tissue/bone.

>>87734
imagine if you will, putting that shotgun in your mouth at a slightly less tilted angle than you're supposed to, and ending up with a quarter of a face. Doomed to live out the rest of your pathetic existence as a hideous, malformed creature.
The downsides to violent suicide far outweigh the actual benefits (dying lol)

>>88114
Yaknow, there's nothing wrong with being scared of the pain. Men have been raised on the belief that their tears are speshial or some shit, so they put up a stoic facade. Fucking guns are scary when they malfunction

>>87740
People who are depressed are convinced that their loved ones don't actually love them and that they would be better off without them. They think that they're a burden.

The most common suicide method for women us drug overdose, which has the lowest success rate. It turns out that filtering out toxins is one thing the human body is genuinely quite good at. I used to work as an EMT, and saw this sometimes. A woman would just google what a fatal dose of some medication is (usually something like Tylenol), then swallow the whole bottle. Yeah that is a fatal dose, but it doesn't just kill you quickly and certainly not painlessly. It will cause liver and kidney failure from those organs trying to filter all the shit our of your blood, then when those organs shut down you ultimately get blood poisoning and die.

But this takes days to happen, and no matter how much someone wants to die, after a day or two of nonstop EXCRUCIATING pain they will invariably call 911 to get their stomach pumped.

The really fucked up part though is that the stress this puts on your liver and kidneys means you have a good chance of developing permanent organ failure in a few years anyway, you know once you've turned your life around and want to live. But with a history of suicide attempts good luck getting on an organ transplant list.

>>89173
So trying to OD multiple times guarantees that your liver and kidneys are fucked in the future? Guess that means I'm going to die sooner.

I don't know how I've survived all these overdose attempts, often with alcohol involved too, and not died. Since I was 11 I've tried to OD at least once a year, it's been almost 15 since, why am I still alive

sometimes to the day ill just overstim on sudafed and caffeine pills to keep myself awake for college assignments or down painkillers during bad weeks where I can barely keep myself awake. how's my life expectancy reduced after doing this shit for a few years anons

>>87728
The way I see it, men throughout human evolution have been rewarded for more risk-taking behavior, and this leads them to be more reckless.

The moid is mostly without gifts, but no one can deny that they are very good at violence, and that also applies to themselves. They are the cause for the vast majority of violence in the world, after all.

Either way, bragging that more of your gender successfully kills themselves isn't something to be proud of. It's retardation at its finest. Good for a laugh though

>>87734
Retarded take, you've never had a loved one hang themselves.

>>89173
What about mixing multiple drugs together?
Say you got a jar of calcium vitamins (hyper-Calcium is pretty bad I heard), a jar of SSRIs, Benzos, pain meds for good measure…
I imagine that would be fatal.
But it's really all about the timing of the "suicide attempt". The way I see it, even if most women are scared of the more violent means of suicide, they give themselves some sliver, a tiny window to be saved. Maybe because we have a better support system (socially)and we could eventually receive the help we need. It really is, all about that tunnel vision. When you're about to do it, or you're doing it, you're thinking "this is it. good fucking riddance", but after, maybe a long time after, you look back and think "maybe i really didn't want to kill myself" maybe it was just a cry for help..

>>89202
For whatever retarded reason, they use the statistic to dismiss female depression as "attention starved behavior".
Succeeding or failing in taking one's life does in no way invalidate the suffering one is going through. It's a mish mash of hormones (and a stressful environment) that cause us to go down the rabbit hole. Moids unironically believe that women are living life on easy mode (incels mostly lmao) because they have the luxury to reject getting dicked down by some pasty, skeletal looking fuck with warts on his face.

That being said, how come women with PPD usually turn violent with their kids and towards themselves?

Work in EMS, and i'll give you my insight on the subject, and the differences between men, and women when it comes to this stuff. First, when it comes to suicide there are a few attitudes people will take when it comes to going about their method, as well as how they reach for help. Some of these apply to men, and women. Or they are typically found in one, or the other. When someone is suicidal you have those that people genuinely wouldn't know were suicidal until after the fact.

I will say most on this site would be able to pick up on the signs if they interact with one of these individuals as I feel self-awareness is something the majority on here possess, and because of that understanding you pick up subtle things in others as well as yourself. The issue being these people tend to be withdrawn, and remove others from their social life. So unless it's someone that really matters to you, you are more than likely not around to witness some of these changes..

As far as methods/attitude goes women tend to cry for help more either directly or indirectly. What I mean by that is they don't really plan things out. They down their pill bottles. It's an in the moment type of thing because they get pushed over the edge, and because of this lack of planning they tend to be found by family sooner rather than later. I consider this an indirect cry for help. If someone really wanted to die, they would plan to be alone long enough to die.

Men also fall victim to this as women do, but in a slightly different way. Men as some have mentioned tend to go more "quickly" or "violently" through the use of a gun. They also funnily enough tend to be found, and even saved before dying, depending on the caliber of the gun being used. A shotgun? they're gone, and for a visual sake their neck turns into a bloody, flesy, flower of sorts as the blast of the shotgun paints the wall/cieling with their organs. The flesh folds outward into a weeping, gaping bloody hole where the head used to be.

Patients using a smaller caliber like .22 which is really dumb to use.. But hey, people in that state of mind aren't think right regardless anyway? They have a good chance of not only being found due to the loudness of the gun shot, but surviving as well, and making a potential recovery. Some end up as vegetables, but I have actually seen men walk away from being shot in the head by themselves or others, and live, and go back to relative normalcy. Relative meaning a scar, and some physical therapy, and eventually they are back.

I will say my opinion on these are women tend to be prescribed more medications on average from my personal experience that can cause an OD/respiratory failure. While men tend to have more tools at their disposal to aid them in their suicide endeavor.. I had a guy once take a circular saw to his neck, lifted the guard, powered it up, and went to town. Women do similiar methods. Many will slice themselves in the arms, legs, i've had a woman slice her own neck.. So women aren't not prone to violent methods either. I just think guns are typically a "guy" item, and are more commonly around a man. I work in a rural area so guns are prevalent regardless of gender.

My thoughts on why people "fail" so much is simply lack of planning. When "enough is enough" you no longer give a fuck. You want out. Man or woman. You're not going to sit by and plan your own death typically. So a cry for help directly might be reaching out to someone, and saying "hey i don't want to be alone". and indirect method is finding your daughter unresponsive in her bed with an empty xanax bottle on the nightstand. Since they are not alone more than likely they will be find in time to get Narcan. (A drug that stops the affects of opiod drugs that cause respitory failure). EMS response times in areas outside of big cities like NYC are generally pretty good, so more than likely a sheriff with Narcan or EMS will show up in a few minutes, and most patients get found withing a short time frame as a type of "snoring" breathing can alert people in their house to their condition. Especially if they don't snore normally.

OP I don't think you're bad to ask this type of thing. From my own humble experience I think it's mostly just a lack of planning, and more of a "enough is enough" mentality. If you rush anything. Whether your suicide method. Making a meal. Building a shed. Hell even getting groceries at a store. The chance for mistakes skyrocket. Except in this funny instance these mistakes can actually save your life.. Thanks for reading my long post, hope it was interesting at the least, and insightful at best.

>>89215
whatever dude

>>89222
good post, i think this seems pretty accurate
I don't buy the "looking for attention bit" because ts reductive

>>89469
Wasn't sure if that last part was in reference to my long blog post, I would just like to reiterate there is a difference between a cry for help, and a cry for attention. These subtilties make all the difference. Generally, I have found a cry for attention is more vocal. This could be someone, man or woman both do this. That's not to say a cry for help can't be vocal, just that the tendency for wanting attention tends to be done through direct, vocal communication. I don't really like the notion of "cry for attention" as that can trivialize very serious emotional/mental issues from terrible events/circumstance. But, the reality is, there are those that do this sort of thing, and since we are based in reality I will act accordingly.

I digress. A cry for attention can be someone posting on a social media site that "they don't want to be alone tonight". In reality, someone who is crying for help is going to go straight to someone specifically when going the vocal/direct route. They will message a family member, close friend, assuming they have one. They will say something like "Hey, are you busy tonight? I'm not doing so well..".

Body language sometimes speaks louder, and clearer than words can. This comprises more of the cry's for help. This can be worse hygiene. Unkempt clothes, and general overall lack of care in one's personal appearance. Lower general volume of voice when speaking. Furrowed brows, or facial expressions that present with an abundance of stress, or tension. Yawning frequently, as well as inability to stay focused in conversations. Movement is generally sluggish, or lethargic. Posture is worsened. Basically a combination of these signs (Some obvious some slightly less so) in men or women indicate someone who could be in trouble. There are dozens more I could list, and i'm sure others could too.

Non-vocal cry's for attention are more like, Crossing one's arms in a frustrated, or defiant manner. Puppy dog eyes. Over exaggerated hysterics. Curling up into a ball. Essentially if it sounds like something an upset toddler would do, you're probably in the right ball park. That's not to say these individuals don't actually need some help. They absolutely could, and some absolutely do.. But, these behaviors are seldom seen in truly suicidal individuals.

Just some more food for thought. Mental illness in all it's variants are something to take seriously. At best I hope this may give a little insight into recognizing, and understanding this type of thing. At worst if someone felt I was trivializing these serious subjects, that was absolutely not my intention.

>>89222
Really interesting post, and you have some great insights, but I have some things I want to nitpick and discuss– suicidal gestures as cries for help and planning suicide.

This is all really anecdotal, but I absolutely do believe that "attempting" suicide is often a cry for help. You mention that people can reach out when they feel the need, but truth be told, it's really hard to get help. You reach out and what happens? You get put on a three month waiting list to see a psychiatrist for 45 minutes one day and 15 minutes every month after. It can take forever to find a good therapist, too. When you're rapidly becoming less and less functional but you can't afford to just wait for help, its easy to resort to more and more drastic cries for help, even if you're already receiving the "help" (read: useless nothings) you've asked for. Tying this back to the main topic, I think women often have (or at least feel like they have) more of a support network, so they're more likely to gradually slide down this pipeline and maybe even get real help somewhere in the process, stopping themselves from actually committing suicide. That being said, I don't think this is nearly enough to explain away the discrepancy in the stats; the majority of attempts done by females are probably just bpd-chan cries for attention.

Another thing I kind of take issue with is you saying that people don't really plan their suicides. From my personal experience and from speaking with depressed friends, we've ruminated on suicide for a very long time, and we fantasize about plans or things we could do. A massive portion of the population thinks they're depressed enough to seek help for it, too, and Wikipedia says 1.8% of all deaths are from suicides. Many, many people probably contemplate suicide off and on for years or even decades. People, myself included, don't feel literally suicidal 100% of the time, and I recognize that some people have recovered from depression, so I make an honest attempt to keep living for the sake of those who would miss me. Because of this, I make an effort to restrict my access to lethal methods of suicide. I don't own a gun for this reason. I don't investigate whether I have access to the top floor of my office building. I don't keep large amounts of recreational drugs in the house. (This is another thing I think males are less likely to do.) I also would not attempt something risky with low-lethality, as I don't know what the fuck I would do if I were in a worse situation than I am now and also unable to take my own life. I think this is a very normal experience, too, as if you open up about suicidality to a therapist, they will immediately ask about your plans and your capability to commit suicide. But my god have we thought about it, and if I ever decided that I was 100% confident that all hope was lost etc etc, I know how I would do it, and I'm certain I would succeed.

That being said, though, I do find that I sometimes grossly misunderstand the 'normal' human experience, and I associate mostly with people like myself. It could very well be the case that I'm just insulated from the 'normie' suicidal people, and that people genuinely are just too dumb to kill themselves properly. (However, I think the repeat suicide attempt rate would be much higher if people were actually just trying and failing)

Also, I really am just nitpicking. Functionally there's very little difference between people 'not planning' and people 'not being able to carry out their plans because blah blah blah,' and I found your perspective really interesting. I just feel compelled to share because it's hard to really truly candidly talk about suicide. Suicidal people often can't express much more than "woe is me uweehh im a sad" or they're very concerned with avoiding involuntary commitment. On the other hand, normies, doctors, and even psychiatrists often seem to have an oddly detached view of depression that I find hard to personally engage with. So, I'm glad to have the opportunity to rant.

>>87733
this. Men will selfishly slit their throat in front of their entire family or i find a lot of moids will just torment others with their suicidalness, and then other moids will call men who commit suicide weak pussies until they wanna pwn feminists then they're poor little men who are being hurt by women


When women commit suicide they do so in less gorey ways and are usually more cautious about permanent things. I also feel like most men will commit suicide over small things or situations they got themselves into (being caught committing a crime, child support, financial troubles, etc)

>>87822
this

men choose more lethal methods than women e.g. gun to head, jumping on train track.
>>87734
when i was contemplating i thought a lot about suicide methods and how my family would react to it. i didn't want people to find my corspe in a traumatic way. i seriously considered drowning because even though it is supposedly painful, it could look like an accident.

In case you didn't notice men are also better murderers, soldiers etc. Obviously if they direct that violence towards themselves it will be more successful than women who do the same.

>>87827
it’s not painless
in ye olde times when hanging for capital punishment was still a thing, the hanged would ask their friends to pull them down to hopefully snap their necks. death by asphyxiation is VERY painful/unpleasant
if you want painless you want something quick (like a gunshot aimed well) or something poisonous that won’t make this mind freak out (like helium)

Even if you control for the non violent methods like overdosing, men are 3 times more likely to complete the "suicide attempt"
The data is flawed because it registers self harm attempts as suicide attempts and it completely skews the whole thing
On every country in the world men commit more suicides than men except china, men are simply more predisposed to suicidality like they are with violence
Read this paper for more info
https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-017-1398-8

>>125373
bumping this thread after 7 months for this? suspicious.

>>87985
My parents had me young, so they still have a long amount of time left before their foreseeable deaths, when I can peaceably end my life.
And then there are the rest of my siblings.
Whoopee, suppose I'll have to live through the ecological, economic, and social collapse of the entire world.

>>87730
In China there are more female suicides. Much of those are attributed to rural women drinking pesticides.

>>131634
I wonder why south korea suicide rate is so high

>>131766
It's far from paradise. Even ignoring the rampant lookism pressures, there's a lot of sex trafficking/abuse and a culture that encourages witch hunts over any mistake, including bullying people into ending their lives. Many just opt out.