transgender women(?) Anonymous 9156
what are /b/'s thoughts on transgender mtfs? Do they consider them women? Should they be allowed access to women only spaces (after passing, before passing?), do you have any experiences good or bad online or offline with transgendered women?
This is probably bait since the general consensus here is that they're not women, it's been the general opinion here since day one.
No it was a sincere question, do you dislike trannies or do you not consider them women simply as a matter of biological essentialism?
Should women's bathrooms, swimming pools, clubs etc. institute mandatory genome sequencing for all members so we can detect trannies?
I personally don't "hate" transwomen, I just don't see them as women. They're a totally different category and denying that is ridiculous. Even if they indeed had "female" brains they'd still have been brought up as men, and have a totally different perspective on things, etc., not to mention the obvious body and hormonal differences and needs. I'm really glad that outing your gender gets you banned here because I'm tired of "as a transwomen I think…" just like I'm tired of "as a guy I think…"
I just wanna chill with my gals on here and that's it.
And as for my experiences with them:
I was personally attacked by someone who identified as a trans girl but he was so psycho I don't even know if he really felt he was one or not. Due to his whole life and history I think he was attention whoring but who the fuck knows.
That was just to answer your question if they are female or not. They're not and no matter how many surgeries they get or how many shots they take, they will never be female. I don't care what bathroom they use as long as they stay away from me but I feel the same way about regular perverted men. They're a small fraction of our population so trying to make them stay away from our bathrooms shouldn't really be one of our biggest concerns.
You'd think it would be obvious to anyone that transwomen aren't biologically women, but I guess that's not the case these days. They're obviously a different category, but if you met a woman(male) who had transitioned early, looked female, "acted" female, and had been socialised female and the like, is there any real reason they shouldn't be referred to as women or allowed into female spaces? Hypothetically speaking, if you met a new friend and thought they were female, and they turned out to be trans, would your opinion of them or the way you treat them change?>I was personally attacked by someone who identified as a trans girl but he was so psycho I don't even know if he really felt he was one or not.
I think this is a big problem too, a lot of trans identifying types are complete fucking psychos, or at the very least really strange. My only encounters with trans people IRL have been with pretty strange types that straight up don't look like females, very burly, heavy 5' o'clock shadow etc.>>9171
This is one attitude I think isn't very cool though, why the idea that these people are all perverted? I'm sure plenty of them are, but what about those that don't even have a sexual interest in women and prefer men?
>>9172>why the idea that these people are all perverted?
Maybe it was your reading comprehension or just my bad writing skills but no, I don't mean they are all perverted by default. I can't fucking know. Mentally ill, sure. But perverted as in rapist or molester idk.
I was talking about perverted men trying to take advantage of women in our bathrooms, not that all trannies are like that. To be fair with you the only times I remember seeing trannies in the bathroom they were talking together in a very loud and obnoxious manner but they didn't do anything aggressive obviously. Like I said before there are way worse matters going on that we have to deal with than having trannies in our public bathrooms.
Yeah, I agree. I think a big problem is it's not really a condition that's fully understood yet and there's probably a number of different pathologies that lead to it. For example, I'm sure Chris-Chan and Bruce Jenner and the like are just attention whoring or weird, but I'm sure there are also plenty of trannies who are basically stuck with this condition from birth and are forced to transition because it's the only way they can feel comfortable in their bodies. When it comes down to personal standards I just think if they look like a woman I'll treat them like one, if they don't then I'll pay lip service so as not to be bothered by them but not actually want much to do with them.
>>9172>>Hypothetically speaking, if you met a new friend and thought they were female, and they turned out to be trans, would your opinion of them or the way you treat them change?
I already said I don't hate them, so… No? But I'd never see them as women. Also I've never seen one who really passes IRL, they just like to think they do but you always know there's something "off". Maybe very rich people can afford it and in 20 years it'll be possible for the common folk but no, I have yet to come across one who "passes" so I doubt I'd be fooled like that if we got to the point of becoming friends.
to be fair if I was a tranny and passed 100% aside from my neovag I don't think I'd tell literally anyone IRL besides from people I was having sex with
You act like they're flying under the radar. Most do not pass well.
if most trannies passed there'd be no way of knowing, people only see trannies who don't pass - otherwise they just assume it's a normal woman
The thing is… They never pass in real life unless they are filthy rich and even the ones who are filthy rich end up looking like the obvious yet messy asf Gigi in the end with huge ass blowup doll "I was a man" lips.
Oh I meant to say funny not obvious lmao, idk why I typed obvious. Yeah Gigi is funny but a walking disaster.
yeah they're women but they shouldn't silence female people for talking about female problems that they don't experience
>>9184>otherwise they just assume it's a normal woman
Until they open their mouths to speak.
All of the trans people I know have done some legit weird shit before and after "coming out" so it's like ¬__¬ but I'm still with the idea that people can do what the fuck they want as long as;
1) it's not hurting anyone else
2) they actually make the effort with the "dream" they have.
You don't get to throw a dress on and grow your hair and be like I'M WOMAN NAO. Youtube tutorial exists. Being poor isn't an excuse IMO.
Video mega related.
Why are imageboards so obsessed with trans women? I know a few trans women irl (inb4 fuck off tranny, I'm not one myself) and not even they talk about this shit as much as people on image boards. I truly don't understand.
If you've ever talked to a trans woman, it's pretty clear they're women. The gender dysphoria they feel is real and painful to see. Nobody would go through the difficulty of transitioning just to be a pervert or for attention. I'm sorry some of you have had bad experience with people who use being trans as a sort of excuse to do gross things – that sounds horrible. Trans women just want to pass and not be assualted themselves.
It's just a reflection of what people think in general, not an imageboard related thing imo. Being anon just gives people confidence enough to say what they really think.
I don't think they are women, but I do believe dysphoria is real, but it should be treated a different way.
Being a woman or a man is not an innate thing, it is something you are socialized into, it's learned behavior and always very clearly needs to be learned by trans people, just like females and males learn and are taught. Many trans people confuse being feminine or masculine with being a man or a woman and think that makes them male or female. Destroying harsh gender stereotypes will likely bring the trans population down considerably.
Being a male or female however is an innate thing and having dysphoria or feeling the 'wrong sex' is a mental issue.
I think that trans is a blanket term for a few social and mental disorders, but I think mutilating them is wrong. Even with the inclusion of hormones, SRS is cosmetic at best and is only a temporary self esteem boost. I will say that once science can just brain swap people, I will consider them to be whatever sex their body is, but that still doesn't give them that gender.
I don't hate them, but I don't think mtt belong in feminist groups or in women's spaces. I also don't think the concept of trans should be with lgb, because our understanding of what trans is has changed.
I have had some bad irl experiences including with a friend who was a lesbian turned trans due to depression who has now since become a suicidal alcoholic.
>>9217>Nobody would go through the difficulty of transitioning just to be a pervert or for attention
That's such a shitty, Tumblr-tier argument though. Being a victim is a badge of honor in certain spaces, and if there are white people pretending to be poc (but white passing!) then sure there are regular people pretending to be trans. Also, depending on your level of degenerate you could be quite mentally ill…>>9231>lesbian turned trans
Those are the worst, it makes me so sad. I've seen so many butch lesbians who were convinced they were actually trans men… it's depressing.
Yes, some people actually enjoy being victims. That happens in so many paths of life and it's not exclusive to some of the trans community. People do crazy stuff for sexual pleasure for example (see woman who wanted to go limbless, or did, I don't remember)
I support them. Their existence doesn’t hurt my experience of living in society as a woman in any form.
crystal.cafe is a nice and comfy place with no boys allowed, because most internet boys are loud and rude and annoying and scream "Look at my dick I hate jews women exist only for breeding." people smart enough to not do that in this space are considered girls, because they are remaining anon and anon on cc is a girl. in other words, they are already girls here.
for Women's Spaces, I think it depends on the space. a trannie who has just discovered that she wants to attain womanhood needs a different type of Women's Space than a pregnant woman needs a different type of Women's Space then a rape victim who had an abortion and feels shitty about it. Women are also much less likely to beat the shit out of someone who knows they dont pass and just wants to go pee, and I think less people having the shit beat out of them is better.
as a girl who can't get pregnant, I feel like I'll never be a woman, even though I know that plenty of women never do. most trannies, like me, are doomed to asymptotically approach womanhood, never catching up, because of a stupid quirk of genetics. I could easily take my pain out on them and push them down (at least I'm more of a woman then those freaks) but that would be wrong. the truth, for me, is that I can't hate or denounce someone who just wants the same thing I want.
I used to identify as afab trans masculine genderthing and got to know lot of trans people through that.
I don't want to be a dick but I am absolutely fed up with this trans bullshit.
I know some trans women I find ok I guess but all the trans people, even those who "just want to live their lives" have some issues. If they're not young queer theory assholes, they're middle aged perverts. There's maybe only one trans girl who seems relatively normal but she has some issues too like I said, mainly constantly fooling around with some old perverted men with dick girl fetishes which is kinda sad.
Anyway I admit I am completely fed up with trans women and having to walk on eggshells around them, everything is about their validation, their needs, their wants. This is a problem with pretty much every damn trans person I know but holy shit did I constantly have to apologize for being evil afab that's flaunting my privilege over my poor trans sisters.
I don't even want to go to the sexual entitlement issues because it's just fucking baffling, again this is not just issue with trans women but I hear this from the other gender people constantly too.
I don't know I want to be nice and accepting, I understand that trans women really do not lead easy lives but I've just gotten really tired and bitter during these years I have been involved with this shit.
(Samefagging, I just want to say I'm not just talking about online spaces but stuff and people I know in real life)
They should fuck off, stay in their own spaces, and stop reacting like 13 year olds on Tumblr whipping out appropriated ebonics and Rupaul quotes just because someone doesn't want them around. It makes it that much more difficult to take them seriously.
I'm sorry about your experiences anon, that sounds exhausting. It's absurd that you had to constantly apologize for your "AFAB privilege" – I would be pissed if I had to do that and burn out fast. Was this in more public spaces or private groups, and do you live in a large city or a smaller one? You don't have to answer the questions if you don't want to, I'm just curious because this sounds so different from what I've experienced.
I don't see an issue with trans people wanting to be identified as their transitioned gender, and I have no problem recognizing them as such, granted they are at least like, 40% passable.
I have these two teams friends, they both go by Tara (though one spells it Terra) and they both met last year.
One is tiny, like 26, cute and totally passable if she stays current on shaving and stuff.
On is 6'1, 52, and looks like Rambo in a pink dress. We call one "Pretty Tara" and when we don't mean her, we say "no the other one." I mean, never around or to them, but my point is, that's the exact way we'd talk about two "natural women" too, so I don't see a difference.
Y'all are a bunch of judgemental assholes.
Spoiler alert: it's the internet. People are judgemental irl as well, they just feel more free to judge online.
I don't live in North America. This city is considered big where I live but it would be small by USA's standards. These things are mixture of online and offline space, private and public, people I only know from online and people I know irl.
The people I know irl have private chatrooms and blogs where some of this stuff has happened, some have happened in private parties irl, some in more public spaces like some queer happenings.
I think the biggest issue is that most of these people are just miserable. Majority of trans people I know have had underlying mental health issues, and I guess in some cases when transitioning (or changing pronouns depending of the type of trans they are) didn't fix their issues they kind of get obsessed finding something which would "fix" them? Like this one trans man I know, he seems to kind of think that if only he found a (cis) boyfriend he would finally be happy and validated, he keeps complaining about his loneliness and cis gays and how finding a boyfriend as a trans guy is so difficult.
Or some trans women, who have been years on hormones still don't pass, they've gotten obsessed over some niche passing politics things, passing privileges, get more sensitive about cis sexism because I guess getting everyone around them to say that women can have beards or adams apples and stuff like that makes them feel better.
Its impossible to help these people because you're xphobe and ableist or something else. Trying to say that you know guilt tripping your twitter mutuals with suicide and making your mental well being their responsibility because they happened to like some legit harmless tweet is rather abusive and the kind of that behavior will just drive people away from you is out of question. Or some other similar situations.
There's supposed to be this very tight knit queer community of comrades but honestly people can't wait to get to cannibalize others. There was this call out thread where people could snitch stuff from other people's social media, like if they said or did something problematic on some chat or their fb or twitter you could bring the issue there where they could be "called out in public".
One trans man I know acts like a feminist gift to this world but it's obvious he hates women and loves attacking them over the most minor shit, used to always bully this legit mentally ill woman about say books she liked her boyfriend and he brought that stuff irl too. Surprisingly this started happening after this woman had slept with him and then rejected him.
There's just tons of different shit that made the spaces I was/am in fucked up. I have met very cool people too, but it all kind of gets over shadowed by this shady shit. It's just that there are these social dynamics that fester abusive behavior, and I won't be surprised if/when we have our own abuse scandal in our hands.
Hey call me judgemental but if you wanna trade you can take my place listening to trans woman lecturing me about how sexual harassment is worse for trans women because they weren't used to it compared to cis women who are used to being harassed from our childhoods and can't anymore feel so bad about it
trannies arent human much less women
Anon, I barely hang out with any trans people myself and only one boy from my old high school class turned out like this but don't you think that's a bit cruel?
Deep down they are human same you or me or whatever.
Sure with today's tumblr culture like >>9601
said, it almost feels like everyone wants to create more drama and is so hypersensitive that they become impossible to hang around without brewing anxiety, can't take any fucking jokes at all, but I feel like there are plenty of trans people with their heads screwed on right and just want to exist doing the things they like doing.
Like you, I just start to wonder what the fuck is going on with trans people in sports who don't transition and think it's their civil right to let them crush the competition or fail behind because the way their bodies are, there is no fairness in sport. The problem I have with this attitude in general is that they are egalitarian but relative.
They preach validating everyone but get real fucking nasty when someone tries to peer beyond their black and white mentality. And in public they say that everyone in the LGBT community is equal when everyone knows that there are indeed prejudices and in-groups inside.
But that's no excuse to let people call them abominations of nature.
I went to a crazy high school with loads of gay/trans/whatever kids, and regarding trans kids in particular the ones who didn't lend their whole identity to it and acted normally were fine. I only knew of one trans girl, I didn't even know she was trans until my friend told me, she was pretty quiet and
nerdy, she kept to herself.
There were some trans kids that really annoyed me back in the day, but they were all MTF, they would just go too far in their social media posts "this BOY just got HIS drivers license today uwu. #transdriver #transboy #transuniverse"
I think that social transitioning is totally possible, but no surgery can ever change your body into the opposite sex.
The media wants us to think trans-women are normalised and accepted, but they're really not and never will be.
>A woman who asked to be seen by a female nurse when she went for a smear test was 'embarrassed' when she was allocated a person with 'stubble and a beard'.
Upon being called in for the procedure, the patient said she was 'distressed' to discover that the nurse was biologically male.
When she pointed out the mistake, the nurse responded that their gender was not male and that they were transsexual.
In the end, the patient decided not to go ahead with the intimate procedure and complained to the NHS.
>She told The Sunday Times that it was 'weird where somebody says to you "my gender is not male" and you think: "well, what does that even mean? You're clearly a man!"'
The patient described the nurse as having an 'obviously male appearance…close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble.'
She added: 'People who are not comfortable about this are presented as bigots and this is kind of how I was made to feel about it.'
>>9217>The gender dysphoria they feel is real and painful to see. Nobody would go through the difficulty of transitioning just to be a pervert or for attention.
Except they very definitely would. There are countless stories of people who pretend to be sick for years just for attention or mothers who would poison their own children for sympathy garnered by having a "sick" child. The fact is that trans people are inherently mentally ill and it isnt a leap to assume attention seeking behaviors consistent with disorders like hpd would also come with gender dysphoria.
They are like the kid in high school that thought they were a character in Naruto. Except they actually became that character and their astigmatism went in full throttle.
They are satanic and obsessed with us and obsessed with destroying us
Sisters, look at this and tell me if this isn't creepy as hell http://www.virtualffs.co.uk
Also, is this site run by a woman?
Would any of you want to start a YouTube channel with me to spread the word out?
I don’t consider them women. A lot of people itt really hit the nail on the head.
I mean not "with me" with me. But just interested in the idea of it.
That site isn't creepy. The site owner is making money providing a simple service. Only thing creepy are the perverts sending in photos, aroused by the anticipation of seeing themselves as ''women''.
>>9670>>They are satanic and obsessed with us and obsessed with destroying us
I don't ~like~ trannies or whatever, but this made me laugh because it's an exaggeration. I don't think they, as a group, have anything against
the female sex. But yeah they are mentally ill, obviously, and delusional.
Don't start trying to spread hate against trannies here again though, that shit went out of control way too many times already lol
OKAY. But I'm a girl so why should my opinion be irrelevant
Also they want to invade our spaces and rename pregnant woman as pregnant people so tell me again why they aren't out to destroy us
I didn't say your opinion is irrelevant, I told you to don't start grouping people to go hate on trannies again because we've had like three or four tranny hate shitpostingfests that were spreading all over the boards.
And yeah I do agree that's retarded ASF and mental, but I don't think the majority of trannies is actually trying to fight us or whatever defines us. They're very self centered.
They don't get criticism though. They don't get nearly as much criticism in a day that I have gotten in a lifetime. Why are you protecting them?
>>9679>They're very self centered.
Yes, narcissism. Narcissism can be dangerous. We see this now, how they are trying to deny women and CHILDREN their safety to please their own fetish. Give them the chance and they will go as far as they can.
Just because I was raised to be heavily religious you think you have the right to mock me? I am actually athiest but because I was literally sexually assaulted while I was baptized (I was baptized as a Catholic when I was a baby and then baptized again & SEXUALLY ASSAULTED when I was baptized again as a Christian) I am always going to be influenced by my religion I was socialized to have. We should hate trannies
I'm definitely not ~protecting~ them, I'm the person who posted the chromosomes and Jim Carey jsyk.
Well, and I hate typical slutty behaviour due to being raised in a very conservative family, but I don't go out saying we should kill all sluts and that they should die and that they're taking away all men. That's retarded. You need to base your opinions on facts if you want to discuss something so currently relevant such as trans people. They're mentally ill and they're not women and they should stop with the facade because no one believes that shit and they don't either, but being hateful because you were raised religiously is plain retarded and won't make much of an argument against anyone who fights for trannies because you yourself should know as an atheist that religion should stay out of this type of business.
I agree with you. You've changed my opinion. Thank you
no one said to kill anyone.
>>9679>I don't think the majority of trannies is actually trying to fight us or whatever defines us. They're very self centered
nta, but that's more evidence that they are or would be. trannies start as insecure men who are too scared of other men to get them to change so they switch to being insecure women, who know they can shout women down to get all of their self centered egotistical needs catered to. so much so that they turn other women against us.
I don't think they're ACTUAL women, but I think they deserve to be treated as such.
Why would they deserve to be treated as women if they are not women? To amplify delusions? They need respect and proper treatment, not more lies.
I´m studying in a fairly small village in Northern Europe (which is pretty open minded and accepting of LGBTQ+ people) and have on three occasions run into the same (and only) trans-woman in the campus bathroom.
Lucky for me, I already knew he was trans when it first happened, because he´s enormous. Way past 6ft, probably obese and absolutely hideous. But worst of all, he doesn't´t do anything to pass. His hair is short, he has facial hair and he wears baggy and plain clothes from the men´s section. It was just me and him in there and had I not read his cry for attention in the news paper a few weeks prior (about how he was going to kill himself last semester, but then got friends or something and that saved him), I would never guess that he was trans and I would probably freak out.
I don´t mind trans people, but they do generally annoy me, like this dude. How am I supposed to take you and your "gender" seriously when all you do to try to pass is put up one picture of yourself on IG with this hideous and obnoxious pink lipstick? It bothers me how much space some of them take up and how easy it is for them to just scream "TRANSPHOBE" or "TERF" at people who are questioning some of their behaviors. Like, I haven´t spoken to any of my friends here about this dude on campus and the bathroom situation because I don´t want them to think I´m transphobic for being annoyed by him.
(Sage for blogpost)
^ >realizes this isn´t lolcow
do we even sage here?
You don't have to, the board is slow and it was kind of on topic so
Yeah, we sage but this thread was already in the first page anyway, and we're pretty small so no one really cares or gets angry if you sage or don't sage.
I hear you, anon. There are things that bother me when it comes to transwomen invading women spaces and not trying to pass and calling attention to themselves/being obnoxious, but I fear speaking about them because I don't want to be labeled as a transphobe. Even if you're not being hateful many people will see you as one just because you said something negative about trans people.
do any of you have any opinions on Magdalen Berns? (YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvTTakI97sQ4SkMnsH8r0qQ
I think she´s one of the most vocal "terfs" and she has some interesting points and opinions, though I do feel like she is painting things a little too black and white sometimes. Her main arguments usually revolves around how trans women can never be women, that they invade female spaces and the biological (sometimes social) differences between the genders.
this. i honestly feel bad for trans people because they're being pushed by their insecurities.
I think misgendering on purpose is a really shitty thing to do and I sympathize with them having to go through the pain that comes with gender dysphoria and all that.
With that being said, I just hate it that many trans make a total mockery out of actual women. Their hyper-feminine, old fashioned, grossly stereotypical highly offensive behaviour makes me livid. All these decades trying to break down harmful gender roles and these people come in and confirm that born males still think of women as walking onaholes with house-keeping functions, even if they identify as such. I hate it that whenever a trans woman talks about what being a woman is they just start spewing out all of this trash that has absolutely nothing to do with people who were born female.
I will also never accept to call myself "cis" because that implies that I accept the roles that society actively and persistently pushes on me. There's very little in me that has to do with the female ""gender"", I was just literally born a female and ever since then was subjected to all the pressures that come with it. I'm not calling myself "cis" when I don't feel any gender, I see gender theory almost as a religion. I'll accept their views but won't let them push them on me.
I think it's because they genuinely worry and are constantly nervous if any of their natural behaviour is as "feminine" or "female" so they constantly adhere to very very stereotypical molds. They're terrified of their natural behaviour as being masculine so they behave untrue to themselves and what's comfortable for them because deep down this issue should be treated as a mental health one and not a civil rights one.
I think we shouldn't transition them and just allow them to be more comfortable with their bodies and behaving girly.
Trans people in general can't talk about breaking down gender stereotypes if the majority of them stick very very closely to them even if it's gender nonconforming for their natal gender.
Girls can wear pants or even dress in masculine style and are still seen as girls no matter what they do because they are simply women but transgirls can wear pants and not force themselves to constantly check their behaviour for ultra femme and are still thought as boys.
When it comes to getting rid of gender entirely, I don't entirely agree because it gets rid of all the shit that women had to go through and agree with you that calling them "cis" equally implies they have caused as much damage as men have to women. Like this binary damage is the exact same so like you I entirely agree, I don't have to use their language nor do they, mine so I will never call myself "cis".
i dont have a problem with trans ppl tbh
It's a weird subject because the transgirls that are chill just identify as girls and you'd never know. The issue is more with questionably passing girls who act like anime traps or the older totally non passing sorts who are just super aggressive. They deal with a lot of shit so a lot of them turn out sort of weird, but I wouldn't say they're all bad eggs. Some genuinely do just transition and then live life normally.
So yeah, I see them as women but it's moot point because the saner girls tend to blend in. It's tough online though because you have to pick between opening the gates totally to transwomen which means getting a lot of really shitty fetishists, or totally excluding them which means leaving out some genuinely cool people.
What "chill" and "sane" transwomen do you personally know? Seriously. I've never met ONE and I'm quite friendly IRL and not afraid to say hi. They are always loons, unfortunately. Also we always know they're men or at least there is something off. Or are you trans friends so rich they can manage to pass easily due to lots of surgeries they got at a young age or something?
I know a girl from my class in school who was taking HRT through classes then just started presenting female after she left. We keep in touch and she's a really sweet girl, works as a barista while she studies. You'd never know. Same goes for the other girl I know who was outed by a mutual "friend" who knew her before. We cut her out but we stayed friends, and again one of the nicest people you'd meet. She's a dweeb but really into fashion and makeup.
They both look great and I'm often jealous how nice their skin is and they just generally put a lot of care into their appearance. Neither has had surgeries but one is planning facial stuff, but I don't think she needs it.
I feel awful reading a lot of the posts in this thread because they're such normal, good natured people. I think it just comes out of seeing crazies on twitter or whatever.
Honestly you're probably one of the few lucky ones. Look at this thread, most of us have been in horrible situations with transwomen and that's why this stereotype is strong and alive. I am glad you managed to find good ones, but they're not the majority.
gender's a scam in general tbh. there's no meaningful difference between men and women other than what's socialized into us, so i don't see the point in denying people womanhood.
there's crazies out there for sure, but that goes for any group of people.
I agree to some extent. I won't say "men are tougher" and "women cry a lot" because those things are usually bollocks, and we have been socialized to be very different and it shows. I don't want to go full Tumblr but the problem is, for the most part, with the current gender roles being so strict in terms of behavior. I do think most
women have a natural tendency to X and men to Y, but those aren't rules.
I'm open-minded regarding trans people. Plenty of loonies but also quality people who suffer from mental illness and are trying to deal with it the best they can. I've seen only plenty of nice trans people (including a transwoman who looks rather gender nonconforming - comfortable clothes, no make-up etc. despite being on HRT) I will never discriminate because of that.
Having said that, the transwoman that I have been friends with for a few months was quite a case.
>She was extremely egocentrical. She took everything I said as a chance to whine about her trans issues and her dysphoria. When I shown her a photo of my boyfriend (that I have just gotten with), all she said was 'he has a much more feminine build than me! i wish i had such small sholders! waaaaaah'.
>She knew that I was extremely needy, depressed and emotionally broken and yet she didn't give a fuck about me finally finding a happy relationship even though being alone for years made me want to kill myself.
>Months before I met my bf, she got jealous when I started to get serious with a guy from tinder. The romance dwindled before anything happened (he was looking for a ons and not a ltr). She asked me to be her girlfriend - as it turned out in next few days, without regard for my feelings. It turned out she wasn't attracted to me at all and didn't want to hug or kiss me. She wasn't even able to end it. Luckily I wasn't in love with her, I liked her and found her pretty so decided to take the chance. It was really hurtful when despite our 'girlfriends' status she continued to treat me like a friend. Basically she decided to snatch me from a 'dating market' (sorry for the retarded phrase) so nobody else could be with me even though she was not attracted or interested in anything beyond friendship.
>She always criticised me for liking tacky pink stuff (like fluffy bunny keychains) and black/alternative clothing. I realize that my clothing choices are controversial, but the point of being friends is supporting and accepting each other. I didn't really like her clothes style, but I thought it fit her well and I wanted her to be able to enjoy 'female' clothes and express herself.
>Also criticised me for sucking at being woman - not knowing much about make-up, having nails sloppily painted etc. You know, the classic 'you were BORN a woman, how come you don't know the stuff???'
>was mad at me for not asking her to come to another city for a gig of a band that I love, but most people either criticise or don't care about. I apologised (as I had no idea she liked them) and told her I will let her know if I go to another concert. When Lana Del Rey was playing (which I knew she liked) I invited her to come with me. She didn't give a fuck. Instead, she started her usual program of whining without accepting any solutions.
>she was into bdsm (I'm LIGHTLY into it to, but not really the hurtful stuff - just bits of domination and bondage). She tried to pressure me (along with a guy she tried to set me up with) into getting tied to a cross and getting my ass spanked even though she was aware I wasn't into doing things in public and with people I'm not in love with (at the time I was in a bad mental state and thought being abused by a lover is ok, I wanted to use BDSM as self-harm method).
>the guy she tried to hook me up with was in a poly relationship. I told her I'm not ok with that. She told me that NOBODY ever loves anyone enough to stays faithful so why care? According to her it was ok to settle on someone basically cheating on you with your full knowledge. She had a really low self-esteem and believed that shit.
>as mentioned above - she was a serious whiner. You know the type of people who are depressed but when you tell them to go to shrink to medicate the illness away, they pull some bullshit excuse and continue with their whining? She was the type. Despite taking HRT she was torn between presenting as a woman and staying a man. It was obvious to me that she needed depression medication and a psychoterapy (either helping her accept herself as a transwoman or effemninate, bisexual guy). According to her, there was nothing that could help her - but she also didn't want to try. It was always 'oh, if only i was a woman', 'if only i had smaller shoulders', 'im just a piece of shit weirdo, nobody will love or accept me', 'if only i had enough money for facial surgery', 'why are other transgirls passing so much better?'. All of this are valid issues if you are trans. The problem was her negative attitude. She didn't give a fuck about me emotionally supporting her in every way possible.
Imagine someone that tries to fight you everything you tell her something nice ('you are pretty and would look lovely in this dress!' 'YOU HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR EYES, I LOOK LIKE SHIT, WILL NEVER PASS'). It gets draining damn fast. Again, it's not even a problem she was having those issues but that she was rejecting every solution in favor of staying in the same damn situation and pitying herself.
When I was feeling lonely about my lack of love life, I started going on tinder dates. While I haven't found my bf there, at least I was gaining new experiences, becoming less awkward and at least trying to change my situation. The experience prepared me for meeting with my bf after we ran into each other on reddit, so in the end, it was helpful.
Anyone feels like explaining why some people - male, female, trans or whatever - prefer to whine instead of doing something to change what hurts them?
>the cherry on top is sexist bullshit she was spewing, like 'women have it easier cause they can get sugar daddy and make money with their pussies', 'women have stronger orgasms! you are so lucky'. She suddenly turned deaf when I tried to tell her that most women don't want to be prostitutes, how horrifying the sex industry is and that plenty of women never experienced orgasm because of how shit their bfs/husbands are. Despite having EXTREMELY famely body language, face etc. she seemed to know nothing about living as a women beyond what she learned from porn.
Our friendship ended when I couldn't ignore more of her self-pitying bullshit and told her to get over herself and go seek medical help. She never replied to me. Fun fact: everyone who cared about her suggested seeing a shrink at least for her depression. She preferred to listen to a girl who didn't give a fuck about her beyond sexually, so of course she didn't care about her mental health.
My ex-friend was an incredibly unhappy, self-destructive and egocentrical person, but I truly wish her the best. I hope she finally finds peace and self-acceptance that she needs. She was in true pain, as annoying and stupid she might have been.
Stumbled upon this gem today.
Every post in this series is terrible, but this takes the cake. Cause fuck women struggling with gender expectations and discrimination at workplace, now only transwomen matter!https://gamecola.net/2014/02/disregard-canon-acquire-representation-naoto-shirogane-is-a-transman/
>>10342>so i don't see the point in denying people womanhood.
Because "womanhood" isn't a sorority that members can choose or opt out of, it's a biological reality for humans born who are born female. You can say that men should be allowed to express femininity and I'll agee with you, but that doesn't make them women. Unless you think femininity is intrinsically tied to being a woman, in which case you sort of negate your previous statements about gender.
This again. When Persona 4 was a big thing with Naoto as well as Dangan Ronpa's crossdressing boy character - Chihiro - were big things, people on Tumblr basically went balls to the wall crazy with the trans stuff.
If I wanted to use one of their buzzwords for what these sods are doing, I'd say - whitewashing.
What they are doing is ignoring culturally dependent misogyny or misandry because the characters are in their words, cis. Trans are the ultimate struggle to them that eclipse everything else. Apparently we must drop every other human rights issue for their sake. They are painting over an incredibly Japanese narrative with a highly American-centric belief which is racist in it's own way. I just want them to straight up say, I don't care about what issues Japanese women and men face because I am a middle class slactivist. I am so selfish and possessive that it must only be about me.
They are so self absorbed, they cannot relate to a character that doesn't reflect them because they just don't care.
If you want transgender characters in Japanese media, I's suggest the waitress in Catherine or Final Fight's Poison.
What makes tumblrinas angry is that these transgirl characters experience no or little discrimination, at least from my remembering.
They simply exist as transwomen characters who have no hamfisted "discrimination is bad" platitude. Hence they cannot circlejerk about it when trans characters just exist living as normal people.
these are mentally ill men, and it's a travesty that doctors/surgeons will provide them with """treatment""" despite a complete lack of evidence that it treats anything, as the pre and post suicide rate remains constant.
actually there is evidence, to the contrary. it actually was researched and studies showed the increases in suicide etc.
trans isn't even a thing in japan
I'm against the current treatment given to trans people (cut off balls, inject hormones, remove boobs) but Japan is so backwards in many aspects despite all the high tech and all … I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, I'm just making a semi related comment.
I really can't see trans being a thing in Japan. Even being gay isn't widely socially acceptable there yet despite yuri and yaoi anime.
the current 'treatment' only usually happens in places that accept the extreme trans narrative or countries that outlaw homosexuality.
What western country won't let a guy chop off his balls if his psych says he's a girl inside? I've personally seen that happen in North America, South America and two European countries.
idk, i dont see any singular experience of this so-called biological reality which makes it significant enough that i desire to categorize people based solely on that. all women experience womanhood differently, often vastly differently, so i don't see the point in excluding someone from it based on their genitals.
i'm mostly dreaming of humanity reaching a more evolved state where we do away with gender altogether, but that doesn't happen overnight. in the mean time, i really don't care if people born with a dick decide they're actually a chick, or the reverse. i'm not super invested in them, either, but i don't take issue with it.
Trans people in Japan definitely do exist, they're simply very underground and the culture is nothing like we know from modern SJWism.
Hell, there is an anime/manga named Hourou Musuko which is about a boy who wants to be a girl and a girl who wants to be a boy but ends up being fine with living as a woman.
Aya Kamikawa is a Tokyo figurehead who is the first transwoman to be in the political limelight.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_Kamikawa
This university is changing it's stance to possibly accept trans people.https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/09/19/national/social-issues/japans-womens-colleges-grapple-with-shifting-views-on-gender/
Japan simply isn't the complete collectivism individuality quashing hivemind you believe it truly is. Just because you don't see trans people in Japanese mainstream culture or that they get bashed, it doesn't mean they don't exist and that there aren't people in Japan with sex dysphoria.
The problem is how we should treat this issue and the trans political climate in Japan is entirely different from the self entitlement and useless shitflinging in the west.
You sound like the kind of men who believe that Japan has no Feminist movement because their attitude isn't the same as the west.
Trans people in Japan have an entirely different relationship with the public eye, most just want to live their lives quietly and don't do the tumblr thing of microaggresshuns.
The only thing I want to know is how you know you're from the other gender inside. How do they know they're trans? How do people actually find that out?
All the stories I have read never seem to make much sense. It's always "I felt more comfortable with girls", "I liked dolls/cars/whatever", and "I didn't like having a peepee", but lots of ~cis~ children have phases like these. I'm not saying transgenderism isn't real because I am not a psychologist, but many of these cases could simply be seen as not confirming to the standard gender rules and feeling weirded out by your own body for several reasons. I personally remember a girl who was very unhappy for not having a penis and wanted to be like her brothers who could pee standing and all. Sounds like something small, but it makes a lot of difference when you're a child and it gets in your head. You can also feel the other gender gets more attention and feel like you want to be like them, or worse things like sexual abuse which can make you hate the sex you are, having a strong role model from the opposite gender and a weak one from yours (someone you aspire to become like, and someone you'd hate to become) and even internalised homophobia in some cases, which would make you want to belong to the other sex so you'd be "straight".
Just my two cents.
I have the same views.
Most gender noncomforming children, even those who seem trans just turn out being lesbian or gay. It's reaching puberty and feeling sexual feelings for the same gender, that makes them realize they were gay.
However, 20% of those turn out being actually trans. Even the best gender doctors in the world can't predict who will stop insisting they're trans and those who will persist.
Which is why it's a stupid idea to transition children who barely know anything about themselves and let them run away with this identity model that the Internet feeds.
Many of the reasons you listed are entirely correct for why people mistakenly identify as trans.
Some transgirls believe the "woman is life on easy mode" meme and get drunk on the stereotype of a female body being a piece in the sexual capita market, who have low self esteem.
They could never get sex as a male so they think if they resemble a female, they can have all of the sexual attention, possibly love if they want. This is just an imaginary version of a woman that those men objectify and believe.
"Male life hasn't gone the way I want it to. Life as a woman seems like a shiny novelty."
So they co-opt a gender identity for all the wrong reasons. Some are just perverts who get erections from gender transformation fantasies and take on the troons label so they can continue to be deviants and cry transphobe if told to stop.
Most transboys just want to escape the biological reality and sexism that comes with being born female which isn't really a valid reason to make such a drastic change of who you are.
Many who identify as trans or non-binary, may just have normal body issues that every man or woman goes through. When this gets conflated with eating disorders and mental illnesses, they can easily mistake body dysmorphia for sex dysphoria.
Because these kids want to fit in, they can start to truly believe they are trans when they are socialized to become so.
Because life as a teenage girl is so hard, you can easily find a group whose common interest is trans…ness, a common enemy as well as feel special, unique and different.
I also curious as to what separates a small phase from a lifelong question to find the answer to.
I'm not especially interested in trans issues but this was pretty interesting tbh, thanks for the link.
>>10597>“Gender essentialism” is the theory that our gender differences are innate, universal, and—according to transphobes—biological. Atlus' games are rife in essentialism. Erica will always be a man according to Atlus, so she is still treated as such. Naoto's desire for gender reassignment is deemed irrational and potentially damaging because, really, he'll always be a woman.
This is the truth though and there is nothing hateful or fearful about it.
this. also most things in >>10496
are western interpretations.
Whoever wrote that article doesn't know much about Atlus and barely played Persona 4. Everytime people talk about LGBT representation in Atlus games they pretend that only the same 5 people worked on everything (everytime people say "why is there a gay option in P2 but not in P5? it makes no sense" it's not the same people who wrote these games, duh) and that Persona is the only series made by Atlus ever. I can see why some people could complain about representation in Persona 4 if they mention Kanji and/or Yosuke but not really when it comes to Naoto. This type of gamers tend to misinterpret so many dialogues in games and interviews by the writers or developers to make Atlus and sometimes other smaller game developers seem problematic, it's annoying. Better avoid them.
A good example would be this >>10602
, like yeah, Erica is a trans woman (and is pretty well portrayed from what I've seen, especially when you compare her to the trans gamers who hate her so much), but it's never said or implied that what happens to her is her fault and that she deserves it. It's a literal demon who doesn't give a shit about humans who gives her the nightmares, just like in most Megami Tensei games. They really don't give a shit about context, and they NEVER give a shit about the disclaimer that whatever company's views aren't portrayed in their games or stories.
Anyway, I'd be surprised if Rin is even a human being in the first place but that's another story.
Why do trans gamers hate Erica at all?
I know they prefer to masturbate over negative portrayal of trans people to get victim sympathy but you'd think that they'd be happy to have a trans character that just exists. Erica just plays a role in the story and just happens
to be trans. Her gender issues and ~journey~ never eclipse the whole story and she doesn't open her mouth to spout teehee strawman opinions.
Most transgamers are gamer gators anyway who hate every part of diversity that isn't trans and caters completely to them. You'd think that what they wanted in some extreme misguided women-hating fashion, and what we wanted, was to have LGBT characters and women in games who don't turn everything into a hamfisted morality play.
What's there to hate here?
How are they western interpretations anon?
Do you have Japanese friends raised in Japan who were transgender and gave you the insiders perspective that this was wrong?
Are you just trying to look for reasons that fit your world view that all trannies are the same and bad no matter which country you visit?
I look at articles, watch videos and try to take an educated guess from the general mentality.
The approach to transgender people in Japan seems pretty right leaning. They insist on keeping biological differences as something immutable. Which is correct.
Then they just give people who are biologically male or female but desire to present as the opposite, the medically recognized go ahead by many doctors to have the necessities they need to live the way they'd like.>“I reject the notion of self-selection of gender,” said Ran Yamamoto, head of the organization gid.jp, which claims around 1,500 members, making it the largest organization of its kind in Japan. (Yamamoto rejects the term "transgender" and considers herself a “woman with GID.”)
It's foreigners who are pushing for this "I can be whatever I want to be and no one can question it, otherwise it's an attack on my own person" mentality.
Honestly I'm not sure at all. I think it's a bit because they're biased towards Atlus and think it's problematic without knowing much about the company in the first place so they hate not only her but other characters as well without even playing any of Atlus game.
I noticed the ones who complain the most about Erica are autogynephiles, don't pass, have nerdy hobbies but spend more time shitting all over video games and anime than liking them, etc. They think that the fact that Erica actually passes as a woman and not a deranged person like them, and the fact that her existence in the game is meant to make the players think she's behind the nightmares pisses them off because they want every trans characters to exist only for realistic representation and virtue-signaling regardless of the setting. I don't know how to explain it very well.
I follow a bunch of fashion models on Instagram, some of which are transwomen. They don’t appear to be the hyper aggressive stereotype that people talk about here, and seem like they just want to live their lives as girls and not really bring up their past. I’ve met a couple in person who were also decent people.
I think it’s sad seeing hundreds of thousands of people thrown under the same bus because some people encountered a few crazies. I have no issue with trans people so long as they shut up about it and act normal, which some of them are capable of doing in my experience.
That being said, I hate dealing with them on imageboards because you’re most likely going to get an autistic robot with no self awareness posting, just like any chan poster with a dick. I used to hang out on /lgbt/ and they were insufferable, most being crossposters from /r9k/ who whined about male opression, female privilege, and wanting periods. Disgusting.
But anyway, I wouldn’t base my opinion of trannies as a whole around those people just like I don’t base my opinion of men around /r9k/.
we're talking about middle class trannies who effect the bulk of society's every day lives. also people know #notalltrannies, but the fact that some are fine doesn't change the fact that the ones who aren't are the ones yelling and changing laws. if your pic is a tranny, they'd have no issue with just going into the womans bathroom without being judged. so they're not lobbying for it.
Is having a role models really that common and influential? Because people seem to be fixated on it. I never wanted to become like a specific person, never copied nobody. I just wanted their fame and wealth. Instead of>i wanna be like that celeb when I grow up
I was more like:>I wanna be famous and live a rich life
>who whined about male opression, female privilege, and wanting periods.
That’s Andreja Pejić, formerly Andrej Pejić.
it's a fact, actually
I don't know why you posted this but there's nothing beautiful in this. I'm glad this person can pass well and seems to be happy but seeing the transformation from cute looking boy into the illusion of something he will never truly really be, biologically, socially (since he was raised as male), etc. To me this was sad, just like watching something beautiful turn into a lie. Trans people need proper treatment, not "transition"
this, i hope we stop this mess…
It was the music what made the vid. I didn't know that it will get filtered.
I don't hate trannies or even dislike them, in fact, some of them are lovely people, but I do not consider them women.
Same for me, but I really hate trans activists, they're just a bunch of self-centered misogynists in denial.
So out of curiosity…do you tell them that you don't see them as women to their face or just when they're not around? Like would you use their preferred pronouns when around them to avoid offending them or straight up call them men?
I'm the same way although it depends on the transwoman. Like I could consider someone like Blaire White or Andreja Pejic to be women, but not creepy crossdressers like Riley Dennis or most transbians for that matter who get pissed at lesbians for not wanting their dick. I wouldn't even mind gynephilic trannies if it weren't for the fact that most of them harass lesbians and if for once they'd bother each other instead of biological women. But most of them won't because that'd be ~transphobic~ to allow women to reject them.
Nta but I'm bored and I think the same way, so I'm going to respond.
I definitely wouldn't say it to their faces because I'm non confrontational and in general I hate to hurt people's feelings. But I do not consider them women even if they look
like the model mentioned, aka if they pass. As soon as I found out the person was male I'd put them in the trans category. Not that something like that is really important: we don't see people in our daily lives as cis male, cis female, and trans, do we?
They didn't grow up as women, so they weren't socialized as women, if now they do try to live as such, not to mention obvious bio differences. I wouldn't be able to lie to myself saying they're women like me or my sister, but I can see them as trans: something in between.
I guess my only issue is that a lot of them really just focus on trying to pass. Which is understandable, since the physical stuff is what we all see and judge first. But I wish there was more of an effort to understand female/male behavior differences and checking themselves when they start acting behavior-ly male.
idk if it's just me but I think there are a lot of differences in the way that the average woman carries herself that's noticeably different from the way the average man does. But I don't think a lot of transgendered people really care about all that stuff, since the root of the issue is body dysmorphia (right? I'm not too sure tbh).
I mean, what does it mean to be a woman anyway? A lot of us just feel fine being women/having female bodies and just go with it, and many of us struggle and try to reconcile being women/being comfortable with our bodies, and our personalities.
they're not hurting me, so i don't care.
seeing some of them claim people are transphobic when they say they don't want to date trans people is annoying though, lol.
i'm saddened by the "business of trans" because i feel like these people who are suffering are being taken advantage of, and i'm disgusted that it's being done to kids. i also really hate the fact that the trans narrative and trans diag criteria seems to rely on 50s gender roles, they are actively dismantling the ideas many of us fought for.https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/watch-here-the-transgender-kids-documentary-banned-tonight-from-the-cbc/
anyone interested in 'trans' kids please watch this. very terrifying stuff.
>i knew my 4 year old boy was a girl cause he wanted to play with sparkly pink stuff, so we blocked his hormones!
fucked up and sick.
>>11653>i knew my 4 year old boy was a girl cause he wanted to play with sparkly pink stuff, so we blocked his hormones!
I thought you were exaggerating, but yeah, that pretty much happens within the first 5 minutes. >He liked sparkles and pink and did flamboyant things with his hands
This nine year old pretty much "identifies" as a girl because "I don't like the games, clothes, or hairstyles of being a boy"
this kid also says "I'm not comfortable in being in a boy body"
does this really hold weight to prepubescent children?
Interestingly enough, the large majority of children who voice concerns about wanting to be the opposite gender are more likely to be lesbian or gay.
Only 20% of those children will end up insisting they are trans and it is letting those gay and lesbian kids experience normal puberty that they understand they are like that.
If we transition all children on the assumption that they are trans when they talk like this, it could be opening the floodgate for conversion therapy of gay kids to force becoming transgender when they simply are not or we are unable to tell at this stage.
Even good gender doctors often say we have no way of telling which children will give it up and reconcile with being gay or which are trans.
Self esteem and the appearance of their bodies that are not deformed are on the line. So it's very important to get the message out to not jump on the bandwagon.
The sad part is, every human starts out as female until men develop male characteristics. This is why there's little difference between little girls and boys.
Testosterone is no joke of a hormone.
Yeah, for that kid and his mom it was really apparent he might turn out to be a flaming gay, and the mom didn't seem too comfortable with that.
The doc was super interesting, I'd recommend. Thanks anon for linking it!
What the fuck is happening at LC? I made one innocuous comment stating that the transgender movement isn't really on normal people's minds as much as theirs and woke up to half a dozen comments calling me a tranny and an incel. I don't remember the board being that batshit the last time I participated in any transgender discussion, which was probably a good six months ago or so. The discourse back then was relatively much more relaxed than now. What the fuck happened during this time?
For the record I'm not very fond of trannies myself. I've let out some steam in particular regarding the whole bathroom controversy before in the very first (caitlyn jenner as the OP image) thread and since have moved on. How can this shit occupy their attention for years on end? I just don't understand.
I wasn't involved in the discussion there but your post made me curious and i went check. I think what made people mad is the comment you linked and highlighted, and the way you worded it. I don't really like labels to identify myself but I guess many would consider me a ~*~terf~*~ and I'd have grown suspicious too even though your comment alone was pretty harmless. >trannies aren't real>you respond: I don't agree
You made things clearer in your post here by saying you are not very fond of trannies, etc. But there you let that bit out of your post, and maybe people thought you were suggesting you think trannies are women too.
And yeah, I do agree with you it's not something that's always in normal people's minds. It's not even in mine, I only think about it when asked what I think and I'd never be rude to trannies for no reason. I think LC has grown angrier regarding this particular issue because many women there have experienced bad situations IRL involving trannies. I can't remember any particular posts rn but since you said you have been around in previous threads I think you may remember these too.
That is really stupid. It's not my fault they're projecting all sorts of weird shit onto me simply because I said something that they weren't happy to hear.
My friend, you are complaining about getting hate on lc. For real, stop for a second and think what you're complaining about… Getting hate on lc? The whole place is filled with rage and laughter. It was just a comment that got a bit out of context and people got upset. It's not a big deal.
It is what it is and tbqh I'm happy there's at least a few places where women can say what they think about this issue without being thrown in the fire and getting hurt and silenced. I do think they are way too aggressive sometimes but there are few places online where you can say what they do without getting death threats from some tranny that hates "cis women"
I'm not complaining about simply "getting hate" on LC. I'm complaining about their knee-jerk reactions towards any unwelcome opinions them becoming more and more akin to /pol/ and /r9k/, namely how they launch a barrage of insults to shut down discourse. Just swap out "libtard" for "tranny" or "incel". The board hasn't always been like this, not 2 years ago.
>>11692>>trannies aren't real>>you respond: I don't agree>You made things clearer in your post here by saying you are not very fond of trannies, etc. But there you let that bit out of your post, and maybe people thought you were suggesting you think trannies are women too.
Not sure which post you're referring to, but I'm certain I never said anything like this. My post on LC was talking about normal people, not trannies. Which makes the entire thing even more ridiculous.
The best solution is just hide the thread tbh
Honestly, lolcow /b/ (/ot/) has been pretty right-wing since day 1. I've made an effort to avoid all the political threads there. They've never been much better than /pol/.
You're STILL missing my point. I'm talking about their behavior, not their viewpoints.
>>11701>a bunch of feminists>right-wing >>11691
I'm the anon who asked if you were the same tranny as before etc and honestly, your post just came off as "you're all crazy and obsessed about this, NORMAL PEOPLE don't really care you spergy terfs". It was really tone-deaf. I don't agree with all the "hi incel" stuff either, but what the fuck were you expecting? People who've had bad experiences with trannies and are finally able to talk about it without being silenced/threatened to say "oh shucks, you're right"?
>>11712>your post just came off as "you're all crazy and obsessed about this, NORMAL PEOPLE don't really care you spergy terfs"
And you think you aren't exactly that? It's not exactly a one-off thread where some people let off some steam regarding dumb tranny bullshit they've come across; you guys had multiple threads and ongoing generals purposely seeking out and dissecting every facet of the tranny bs, without pause, for a good part of 2017. "People who've had bad experiences with trannies and are finally able to talk about it without being silenced/threatened"? Your narrative's a joke. I'm honestly bewildered all of your attention spans. Having your mind occupied by such drivel 24/7 is the perfect example of crazy and obsessed.
>but what the fuck were you expecting? People who've had bad experiences with trannies and are finally able to talk about it without being silenced/threatened to say "oh shucks, you're right"?
I expected somewhat level headed discourse or at least a genuine attempt to engage with what was being said instead of instant dismissals and name-calling. I got more or less that from the LC's initial threads on transgender, believe it or not. Guess I've been away from that place for too long. Didn't realize it turned into such a shithole.
Also I'm aware of your bs "bad experiences", which amounts to "I saw some tranny tweeting "FUCK TERFs" damned trannies should just die". You're literally the same as /r9k/ and /pol/ going on tumblr just to find some crazy fat acceptance rambling to get mad at. And ALSO just like those two boards, you armchair theorize and attack people who question your baseless theories. I don't like trannies either but you cunts get none of my sympathy. Grow up and grow a pair. Get your fat ass off the computer for once and go outside and realize what it's like too not feel so miserable all the time.
Christ, I feel like I'm just as angry as you guys right now. But I know that at least I possess the capacity to move on. Peace.
>>11715>you armchair theorize and attack people who question your baseless theories
Hope you realize the irony in this statement
I'm not armchairing. I'm going by what I've read in that thread.
You're armchairing me because I assumed you were the same anon as earlier in that thread and lumping me with the people who called you an incel. I was literally just telling you why you got those responses.
Anonymous Moderator 11764
Stop the infighting
i definitely don't consider them female, and if woman is used as a synonym for female i don't consider them women either, and i don't think they should be allowed in female only spaces. however, the misogynist autogynophile trans brigade doesn't represent all trans women at all, so for the ones who are just chill and minding their own business, i don't mind using feminine pronouns and preferred names for them. despite having what might be considered a terf philosophy, i'm friends irl with some transwomen, and if they ever straight up asked me exactly what i think of all this i would be honest, but lo and behold, no one has ever asked me because they're not the kind of trans women who go out of their way to start shit.
if you don't encroach on my business and tell me that i'm privileged for being female or that i must identify with my body because i'm not trans, then i won't encroach on your business and tell you why i don't think you're really a woman.
at the end of the day, if we're both being civil and you're not trying to coerce me or compromise my rights, it's just a semantic/philosophical/political incompatibility on what a woman is, and i have those types of compatibilities with most people. as with any sensitive controversial personal issue, i'll tell you what i think if you show me that you're interested in hearing about it or you have misconceptions about me that i want to correct, but if not, i'll keep it to myself as i don't actually want to upset people if they're just trying to live their lives.
i have those types of *incompatibilities with most people durhhrhrh
>go to lesbian event
>first person I see is a man in a dress
>"yeah men are always trying to invade lesbian spaces"
>Do they consider them women?
No even if they "look" like women. I don't really consider ftm who are more convincing as men either, but I would always use their preferred pronouns anyway. There's no need to be rude. They're men who want to be women and get hormones and surgeries to achieve that but can be women because being a woman depends on a combo of chromosomes, upbringing, experiences and biology, not on just looking and ~feeling~ like one (whatever feeling like a girl means in their heads. Liking dresses and heels and make up and hating boy stuff doesn't really scream woman to me but ok).
>Should they be allowed access to women only spaces (after passing, before passing?)
Tricky question. I think that after they look passable enough it should be acceptable because they could be bullied in the men's bathroom or something but still… I'm unsure (read final answer)
>do you have any experiences good or bad online or offline with transgendered women?
Bad, and 2 times when I was in a public bathroom. Maybe these individuals were just obnoxious and this has nothing to do with being trans but this made me wary of them.
Typo: but cannot* be women because
they're not women, and transsexualism is a harmful practice. my only experiences with them are greasy looking men in wigs + expensive clothing on public transport and angsty girls on my campus that insist "WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR TRANS SISTERS!!"
I mean as long as they don't still look like a big greasy man with a wig and a dress on ig it's okay they aren't women biologically ofc and i don't think a guy playing dress up should be let into women's spaces
if they genuinely look female and have a female voice than whatever idc
i mostly consider them to be girls as long as they have gender dysphoria and as long as they try to look/act female as much as they can. i obviously still can't relate to them nearly as much as i can with cis girls but yes
I always think its funny people say stuff like
>the only transwomen I've seen are ugly giant men in dresses!
like yeah obviously, you don't see the ones that look like girls cause they look like girls lol
None ever look like women, that’s an utter lie. Even those who shoop themselves to hell and back have obviously male features and mannerisms. Men being piss poor emulations of their mysoginistic ideas of what a woman is are not women, how has the world gotten to the point that everyone is willing to cater to the delusions of these men
I don’t consider them women, just men coping with mental illness. I don’t hate the mentally ill. I can sympathize with the dysphoric, non-fetishistic ones as long as they’re not obnoxious and don’t parrot the “transwimmenz are wimmin!” type of rhetoric.
Like dood, stay away from female toilet, like why you even try to enter, ha-ha, you're just a man in a wig.
>>30335>Men being piss poor emulations of their mysoginistic ideas of what a woman is are not women
This is such a dumb meme, TERFs yeah I said it!
are exactly the kind of feminists who, rightly, point out all the dumb and harmful behaviors men engage in but then get all annoyed if a tranwoman acts differently post-transition, but then if the transwoman is one of the really retarded ones who just sticks a dress on and doesn't even bother shaving they're still annoyed. This condundrum is why TERFs twice now, what u gonna do bout it?
end up relying on calling trannies "dangerous" or claiming that if you don't have a functioning womb you can't be a woman, like anyone gets gendered by the outside world because of their internal organs.
If I sound mean, I'm not, I'm just typing fast.
You do realise that it’s our internal organs and hormonal balance that make our outside bodies look different dependent on sex, right? The outside world absolutely can tell apart the sexes. I don’t understand why so many of you are welcoming men into our spaces with open arms when they’ve erased us from so many things already, and many of the sufferings women go through are entirely female specific. It is absolutely a mysoginistic emulation if all they think being a woman is is growing out their hair, throwing on a dress, and either acting like sitcom character/teenage anime girl/or a literal sex object. These men don’t belong to our spaces and we shouldn’t indulge in them, anyone who says that a troon actually looks like a woman is obviously lying just like when people shower hideous people with compliments with how beautiful they are. All these men are so privileged that they can decide that they’re a woman one day and everyone will bend over backwards to accommodate them. Emperors new clothes is the current reality.
They're not women.
Even after transitioning they're not women.
They shouldn't be let into female only spaces, ever.
>>30340>implying anyone here will feel insulted over being called a TERF
a lot of users here are proud radfems, terfs, gencrit, what have you. you must be new.
>>30341>All these men are so privileged that they can decide that they’re a woman one day and everyone will bend over backwards to accommodate them
Trannies get murdered often around where I live, I wouldn't call that privileged. Also to say none of them look female is just straight wrong, check out youtube some time, I remember some young ones were being posted on 4chan a while ago and you would never in a slight chance be able to tell that they have a dick. I say if they look exactly like a woman then they can do woman stuff, everyone will treat them like a woman anyway without thinking, and whatever happens in their bedroom with their genitals with their partner is their own business.
I think if there whould be a possible way to jump into female clonned body, world whould became immidiatly at least 80% female.
And most of men will do just to go in female-only places.
no matter how much a tranny mutilates themselves and pumps themselves full of hormones, they will always be male. they will never have a vagina, only a smelly mutilated penis and underformed breasts, the voice of a chain smoking 60 year old woman taking testosterone pills as well as a painfully male bone and muscle structure. even the best passing ones.
the idea that trannies are indistinguishable from women is a meme. there are only about 10 trannies in the entire world who are able to pass fully as a woman irl, and all of them have had heavy plastic surgery. the ones posted on youtube and 4chan are heavily photoshopped and edited, they look like balding autogynophile rats irl.
can terfs fuck off lol
all chans share the same userbase, crystal cafey is just /po/, but with women instead men and misandry instead misogyny
>>30365>crystal cafey is just /po/, but with women instead men>crystal cafey is just /r9k/, but with women instead men
No, it's not. Can you guys fuck off?
why do you have an issue with it? hide the thread and move on
transgenderism is a mental illness, and it should be treated like one with meds and/or talk therapy. learning to love yourself is something everyone has to deal with, and its the biggest feel good phrase lefties throw out now but when it comes to trannies it's just "YASS CUT THOSE TITS OFF! CASTRATE YOURSELF QUEEN"
its insane. loving yourself means coming to terms with the things you dont like too. trannies need to come to terms with their illness and accept their body as it is. no one chooses what theyre born as, no one's 100% happy in their skin. race, gender, genetics, its all a dice roll that you learn to live with.
Even if all women ever kept quiet about their knowledge of basic biological differences between the sexes, men still wouldn't be able to turn into women.
i agree, they should get mental help instead of this bullshit. imagine if people started demanding that anorexics should get free liposuction because its who they are on the inside uwu. its insane.
its actually disturbing how some studies report that people actually have higher suicide rates after srs than before.
i will allow the hot trannies into my female space, but the ugly ones are subhuman and don't belong anywhere
and none of them are true females in my eyes
99,99% of trannies don't pass by any standarts without heavy make-up, lots of plastic sutgeries or huge photoshops skills in real life. "Hot trannies" exist only in anime.
Mental illness like any other and should be treated as such.
I have to bite my tongue a lot because I try to treat people with kindness and respect, but I keep having the same thought:
It's not that you don't "pass". It's not "transphobia" or "transmisogyny". It's that you're ugly.
It's really that simple, most of the time.
Ugly trans women seem to think that if they pass, they're supposed to get treated like 10/10 staceys - and if they don't, they assume it's because they're trans. In reality, being bullied, disrespected, and excluded from things is just how ugly women live their lives.
I'm friends with a few normal trans women, and some normal trans men, irl - I'm a lesbian, myself. I've seen plenty of fat, ugly, or just generally horrible lesbians claim that the reason they're social outcasts is because they're gay. It's not homophobia, it's that they're ugly.
Same with hideous straight women who blame misogyny.
This. All those “hot” trannies you see in pics don’t actually look like that irl.
Be honest, do you hate ugly people?
i dont mind them and i consider them to be women, but I dont really want them here on crystal cafe because they are already widely accepted on 4chan and /lgbt/
kek, pretty true though, ugly women get the short stick on life. i think that has a lot to do with mysogyny too though as other women dont really care and will treat ugly women the the same as anyone, while men flat out ignore, avoid, or berate them as if their very existence is an insult.
even incels and trannies only really recognize pretty women as "real women"(this is largely why i dont give a shit about tranny feefees anymore).
anyone under 5/10 is literally invisible in society. being an ugly woman is truly suffering.
What they said.
They will never be women, they are mental ill men. I don't want them near me or in female spaces.
A therapy that has such a big failing chance is no therapy. Mutilating a healthy body should be forbidden Yes I am against beauty surgery
! Men and women are different, they need different medication doses and react different. You don't feel like a women, you don't wake up and be like "Damn today I only feel like 20% women." You are a women.
Many people hate what they are and what they will become.
Hell I wanted to become a dragon (no not furry like a real one) when I was a child I hated being a human.
When I got into puberty and got my first period with 9 years
I cried for months because I was so afraid. I prayed every night to whoever was up there, that I don't want to grow up. I did not want to be an adult nor a woman. So I dressed as unfeminine as I could and acted masculine. Now with nearly 30 I started to accept my body. I still have problems and it is still a long road ahead of me.
If someone had told me in this time, that EVERYTHING would be better if I would become a guy and that I could become 100% a boy I would have done it in a heartbeat.
But I would, 20 years later, be so unhappy that I would pretty sure kill myself. If you go on reddit it is nearly a cult: "join us you will feel better. Stop listening to you parents, they don't know. Believe us. If they don't help you they hate you." Everything against "this cult" is shut down immediately.
That is why I am so against that.
It is not healthy. It does not help it just creates problems. It does only 'help' for a 'short time'. It does not get rid of the real problem.
Sorry if i made mistakes with the writing and stuff, but i needed that off my chest.