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Anonymous 123234

What is the difference between love and mental illness? Because my friends tell me I'm unironically nearing the latter; to keep it short I seemingly can't forget about my high school ex bf for some reason even though I'm nearing 30, we talk on and off very sporadically over text but I'm the one that always starts the conversation and I my friends tell me I'm coming off as almost begging for him to come back with me but he always tells me no, in fact I know very little of him after we turned 20. Yes I have dated other men, yes I know it's pathetic, no he's not manipulative, but every time I keep making this alternate reality in my head about going back in time and having this idealistic life with him; I had this cringe moment with my mom some years ago because he came up in the conversation and I told her I would come back with him if he wanted and she just gave me this look of me being silly lol

Anonymous 123239

i wouldn't view it from the perspective of mental illness but rather from how short life is.

you waste your time trying to be with someone who clearly doesn't want to be with you back and that robs you of precious time that you would be wise to look for someone who likes you back.

being in fantasy about someone becomes a dangerous habit that makes you disregard reality and reality is already under assault culturally anyways so you just accelerate the denial of it with the endless wishing.

if life was endless, sure waste a few years on hoping for someone but in this finite dimension time is so precious.

Anonymous 123247

Go no contact, at least for a while. Life's too short to be stuck on people who don't feel the same way as you. Letting yourself talk to them keeps all those memories fresh; you need a clean break for perspective.

Cautionary tale: I convinced myself I was still in love with my ex for like 5 years. Long story short it ended with him having a meltdown and me feeling like an asshole. Probably would've ended a lot better had we just stopped talking for a while from the start, but it was our first relationship and neither of us knew better.

Anonymous 124376

>>123234
Maybe you are experiencing limerence. If it is not that, I think you have the right mentality for marriage. People who look at you strange just don't get that love can last long which is why they divorce due to loss of love. I am the same way as you OP but I moved on from the guy because he said I should and went no contact with me. Every time people looked at me strange I explained my unconditional love that I had given to him and they find it all cute and lovey dovey like in books or get all miserable because they actually realise that it isn't some fairytale thing and that they should never get marriage because they are refusing to do the same for others as are many other people. I knew it wasn't limerence because I never saw him as a fantasy object nor with rose tinted glasses, I knew all his horrid flaws and did not care. If he ever came back to me or whatever I think I'd welcome him with open arms and do my best once again. I respect him for telling me to let go, we definitely won't have worked out if he agreed to me staying. I did not have it in me to just leave him completely of my own freewill. That was one bad thing about it so nowadays before that kind of feeling develops I take precaution to check compatibility and keep distance especially if they won't be having the same level of reciprocation.

Anonymous 124387

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>>123234
I still do this. Sorry nona but I can out-pathetic you, I'm also the villain in this one. It's long. Say whatever you want about me if you want to. I deserve it.

>Dated a boy 2 years younger than me in HS

>I was held back a year in middle school because I was ill most of the year. go me.
>Back to him
>Really adorable and sweet
>Puppy-like in a lot of ways, he was always so happy to see me, he had a lot of energy and he was generally a pretty happy person.
>He was from a poor family so he had to go to work at 16 every morning before school and then go back to work some days after school too.
>He did it so that he could support his younger siblings. I thought it was bullshit until I went shopping with him. He'd literally take money out of his pay packet to buy them shoes, clothes, toys, snacks
>They LOVED him. When I met them it was obvious. 2 kid-sisters 8 and 12. The 12 year old took an immediate dislike to me but hid it around him.
>In spite of that boundless energy he was always tired and if you let him sit down too long he would actually fall asleep.
>My home situation was complex and I never let him come over because I knew my mom would hit the roof if she knew about him, so he was my little secret and I'd go to his house and just lie to my mom about where I was
>Eventually when she found out about him I just told her that we weren't serious, even though at the time I sort of was
>Well. Over time I really started to resent him.
>He wasn't as smart as I was and it irritated me
>I found his interests (gaming, running, rock music, etc) really childish
>I started to resent that he was always tired and always busy even though he spent every spare minute with me
>My mom making fun of him made me ashamed of him and I resented him for making me feel that way. I thought I was entitled to someone I could be proud of and didn't have to defend.
>I hated that he was always broke, even though he managed to save a little and buy me great gifts for birthdays and christmas he rarely had money to spend on things like going to the movies or new experiences
>He didn't have a car, so I always drove him around and even though it was always things that I wanted to do, I really resented him for it. I hated it when he fell asleep in the car.
>My friends made fun of him constantly, and I just found it so humiliating that I hated him for it. They call him things like "sleepy hobo" and "charity boy" because our school let him have free meals because he was so skinny.
>So… I started being really mean to him
>I'd insult him, and he'd grimace and try to laugh it off.
>I'd be passive-aggressive and he'd apologise and ask what he could do to fix it
>I started making fun of him for always falling asleep, so he started buying those stupid caffeine pills that gave him heart palpitations.
>I just completely stopped being affectionate towards him, hoping he'd dump me, but he just wouldn't give up, he tried harder and harder to please me and I hated him for that too.
>In my senior year I asked him what he'd do when he graduated and he said "Oh, well it's just me and mom taking care of my sisters. I can't go to college right now. I'll figure something out though. Maybe I'll go full time in a warehouse or an apprenticeship or something" and I mocked him for it and called him a loser.
>One day, a few days before graduation, I just completely exploded at him over nothing. He spilled my water bottle and it went all over the drivers seat of my car.
>I just tore into him about everything. How he was poor, how he was a loser, how I had to put up with him, how I didn't love him and didn't even like being around him anymore, how I was looking forward to going to college so that I could dump him and not see him again, how much of a loser his mother is, how childish he was, how he always smelled because of his job, how everyone made fun of him, how my mom hated him and wouldn't let him in the house. All of it.
>Right at the end, I just loomed over him, angry, wanting him to fight back, practically begging him to dump me.
>When he didn't say anything I got in his face and said "I'm done. Get out of my car. I never want to see you again. Don't fucking bother coming to my graduation and don't come to the dance. I'd rather go alone. GO!"
>He just said "I'm sorry." and silently picked up his bag and got out.
>I drove home pissed off, when I got into my room I had time to think about it and the more I thought about what I'd done the worse I felt.
>I tried texting him, he didn't respond. He always responded immediately if he wasn't at work.
>Tried calling, went straight to voicemail
>I got angry again and thought he was a coward for turning off his phone
>He wasn't in school the next day
>He didn't come to graduation
>He didn't come to the dance
>He didn't turn up for school the next week or the week after
>I started driving by his house and the light was never on in his bedroom.
>I just got more and more angry. A part of me considered him my property and I was furious he was ignoring me
>I eventually tried knocking of their door and his littlest sister answered, saw me and slammed the door in my face
>The anger on her face as she slammed it was palpable, it was like she saw her worst enemy
>I knocked again, her elder sister answered and before I could get a word out she slapped me so hard I fell against the fence.
>She yelled "FUCK OFF." and slammed the door again, latching it loudly.
>I tried knocking and yelling, there was no response, after an hour I left.
>In the weeks remaining before college I tried going to where he worked and waiting outside, he never went in or came out.
>He didn't have any friends
>He didn't have a myspace because he didn't have internet or a computer, just a playstation or whatever.
>I was frozen out, none of my friends had heard any rumours either.
>I left for college never knowing what happened to him
>The way I ended it ate at me. The guilt and shame of it all lead to many sleepless nights
>I tried calling, tried texting, nothing
>I decided one day a few weeks in to just snap out of it. I was in college now. I never wanted to carry that relationship long distance anyway. reassuring myself LDRs don't work and that if I wasn't brutal he'd never have let me go.
>But I knew I was just lying to myself, I was trying to soothe my guilt and justify myself.
>Every now and again I'd try to text him. Nothing.
>Eventually I met a new boy, on the surface he was a lot like Harley on the surface but just underneath that veneer was a manipulative, lying, conniving piece of shit. In retrospect it was karma. He was pretty horrible to me throughout our 8 month relationship. He made fun of me in front of his friends, he took and shared pictures of me (found that out towards the end.), he sponged off of me, stole from me, pressured me for sex constantly until I gave in.
>He was horrible to me. Far too rough. He just tried shushing me when I was tearing up and asking him to be gentle but he just ignored me. It was messed up and terrifying.
>Whilst I was lying there afterwards, I started crying and he started laughing and asked if I was a virgin, when I told him I had been he just snorted and said "So that explains that."
>I was then basically pushed out of his room because his roommate would be back any minute.
>When I got back to my dorm I cried my eyes out and tried calling Harley, it still just went to voicemail
>I frantically text him over and over, no response, my roommate came back so I just held it together long enough to make it out of there and sat downstairs in the laundry room all night sobbing and thinking about what a piece of shit I was and how horrible I'd been to Harley.
>One of my biggest regrets is not giving my first to Harley. He had loved me. It would never have been like that had I just not been so stupid and vindictive.
>Then finally, all at once it just hit me.
>Nobody back home had heard from him. He hadn't been to school. His sister slapped me so hard it left a bruise and there was fury in her eyes.
>I crushed him that day. He was shaking when I was yelling at him. he kept flinching and his breathing was ragged. When he said "I'm sorry" you could hear it in his voice. He was devastated.
>His bedroom light hadn't been on every time I'd driven past his house
>If it's been months… something had to have happened.
>Then I started to wonder if he'd hurt himself.
>It all just compounded on me that night and the guilt overwhelmed me. I just sat crying in that laundry room all night
>I tried calling my mom and she wasn't supportive at all. We ended up arguing.
>I didn't have any friends yet. Just people I knew.
>The rest of the semester was miserable.
>As soon as classes were finished I packed a bag and went home
>I didn't go straight home. I went to Harleys house first
>His mother answered and she immediately told me to leave, she didn't slam the door so I just begged her to let me talk to him. She quickly lost her patience and stepped outside the door. Got in my face and told me "You broke him. Are you happy? He tried to kill himself because of you. Faye found him! He doesn't live here anymore. He's in care. Don't you dare ask where he is. Just leave and don't come back. Don't you ever speak to him again. There's a special place in hell for evil people like you."
>I was stunned. I could feel everything spinning. Before I could formulate my words she huffed and muttered something under her breath that I think just sounded like "cunt."
>She opened her front door and looked back at me, narrowed her eyes and said "How could you hear that and not even say sorry. What kind of person ARE you? He loved you. You heartless little whore. Don't ever come here again." and slammed the door after her.
>So… that was that. I'd never get to say I was sorry. I'd never get to make up with him. I had someone who genuinely loved me in spite of all of my faults and I crushed him so mercilessly he tried to kill himself.
>I never told a soul. Out of guilt and shame. Because I'm a coward. This is the only time I've ever admitted all of this. I couldn't even tell a therapist.
>I carried on with college and scraped through. My time in college was pretty bad but it was what I deserved.
>I dated bad men who treated me terribly, it was also what I deserved, I think in a way I was punishing myself subconsciously. That went on for years.
>Years after college, coming home from work one day, I followed my routine of pouring myself far too much wine and on this night in particular I tried looking for him again, this time via his sisters social media profiles and on one of their instagrams, finally, after all that time, there he was.
>He grew up so handsome… His gentle smile was the first thing I noticed. Then those puppy dog eyes of his, then his frame, he'd bulked up considerably compared to the skinny boy that had been living in my memories.
>The picture had him, his little sisters, his mother, his grandparents, what I assumed were his cousins, except one was this darker-skinned looking girl with black hair.
>"Everyone at Grandpas 85th!"
>Tons of hearts, one from a girl I didn't recognize
>Lisa H
>I dug into her profile, thankfully public also, and it was littered with pictures of him going back years
>They met in the navy. She was older than him.
>I figured this was how he made good on what he said about supporting his family, without having to worry about me anymore and probably not wanting to go home, that's what he decided to do after highschool.
>The pictures of him in uniform were dashing. He'd been all over.
>He didn't have any social media of his own, but she had enough for both of them
>I remember feeling sick scrolling through her posts. Seeing this boys life through her memories made me feel cuckolded. I obsessed over them.
>I remember having the most hideous thought about it all. Somehow that disgusting part of me was still there deep down. Seeing him holding her, seeing him muscular and handsome, seeing their romantic pictures hugging or sitting holding wine glasses at nice restaurants, seeing them on vacations together in the Caribbean and in Europe
>This grotesque feeling of jealousy and indignation
>This disgusting feeling of ownership and entitlement
>"Why wasn't he like this when he was with me?"
>Then, I remembered what he was like.
>The way he tried so hard with what little he had.
>He saved every penny to buy me moissanite earrings for my birthday and I was embarrassed because it was 9ct gold and fake diamonds
>The time he pulled double shifts after work for 2 weeks so that he could have a day off to take me to a theme park
>Every time he fell asleep in my lap with his arms wrapped around me
>Every time he encouraged me when I was down, or when he learned how to help me with my hair, or how he was always there for me when I had a fight with a friend and he'd always pick up his phone when I called him.
>I could feel the bile in my stomach churning. He WAS like that with me. He adored me. I was just too fucking stupid to see how amazing he was.
>I could have had him. I did have him. He was mine. Now he belongs to her.
>I threw away the most amazing man in my life because I only cared about what other people thought about him. I realized that didn't care about him at all. If I had, I'd have been stronger and told my mother, my friends and everyone else to just shut their mouths and wouldn't have cared what they thought.
>I had developed a drinking problem shortly after college, this night was no different.
>I got stupidly drunk and did the most stupid thing you could possibly think of and made an account, then reached out to Lisa H on a DM.
>The message was embarrassing.
>It went something like "Please tell Harley I'm sorry. You look great together. If it helps I'm miserable. I never wanted to hurt him. Please tell him I'm sorry. I understand if you don't and you hate me but I really am sorry. Please tell him."
>I woke up to a reply
>"I know enough about you to know that's a very bad idea. Sorry."
>Her Instagram has been private ever since, as was his sisters.

I'm 30 now. A string of bad relationships since that. Single for 3 years, and I still think about what might have been had I not been so incredibly stupid and self-centered. Nobody has ever compared to him. Their wedding pictures were incredible and there was just this one picture of them on a beach with him carrying her in his arms that I just can't get out of my mind. I hate myself. I'm now just an ugly old hag with nothing to show for her life but regret. I literally threw happiness away. Most women never seem to ever get close and I had it. Now I have nothing but bitterness and self hatred.

Anonymous 124388

>>124387
im sorry, but you think you did something wrong here? this is the story of a boy who refused to work hard enough to give you what you deserve (if he wanted to he would), who was too much of a coward to reach out to you when you were clearly hurt by his innaction, and who abandoned you to join the fucking military (lol) and immediately ditched you for a mommy who would coddle him like the adult baby he is.

>"b-but he was nice to me!"


congrats nona, you are idolizing a moid for doing the bare minimum. I promise, you dodged a bullet. Keep stalking this girl so you can slowly watch her get hurt by this manipulative piece of shit the same way he hurt you.

Anonymous 124389

>>124388
They've been together for at least 7 years nona. One of their first pictures is of them both in uniform with their friends at a bar. Also you missed the part about her setting everything to private and refusing to communicate with me.

The rest of your post makes no sense. Read everything again. He did everything he could in the situation he was in. I was just too selfish to see it as a teenager. His mom worked at walmart and he had 2 kid sisters. Of course they'd be his top priority. He wasn't selfish enough to splurge on his girlfriend when in spite of how hard he worked he wore clothes from thrift shops. He was always exhausted. Please don't make him out to be the bad person in all of this. It's me. I've had years to think about it all. Perhaps I'm so bad at writing that you can't see it. I knew him.

>Doing the bare minimum

I've dated enough men after him to I know what the bare minimum is. He was nothing like that. We're talking about a boy who payed so much attention to me and adored me so much back then that he could tell when I was upset without me saying a word and could always cheer me up. It only stopped working when I started looking down on him and thinking he wasn't good enough for me.

Also, his inaction? What are you talking about? What did I even want from him? Where are you getting all of that from? Is this a moid or tranny trolling me?

Anonymous 124390

>>124389
im reading a lot of internalized misogyny from your post, so I will go point by point so I dont come off as any ruder or less clear than I already have.

>He did everything he could

except work harder and prioritize the person who is meant to be most important to him. He is literally a moid, the only reason he couldn't get a better job and make more money is because he was lazy, there is nothing stopping men from being wealthy but themselves.

>"We're talking about a boy who payed so much attention to me and adored me so much back then that he could tell when I was upset without me saying a word and could always cheer me up"

I have dated enough to know this is the bare minimum. if a man can't at least do this, he should be euthanized. You are praising a man for having the emotional intelligence of a dog.

>"his inaction? What are you talking about? What did I even want from him?"

you wanted him to reach out and talk to you about what happened; instead, he ghosted you when things got tough. This is the behavior of a coward. He refused to acknowledge you after he was hurt and decided that never speaking again was preferable to working things out like a rational adult.

Im sorry if this is harsh, but just because you dated an abuser immediately after him does not make him better, it just makes him look better in comparison. Please dont stay hung up on some manipulative moid, who statistically speaking was going to hurt you anyway.

Anonymous 124396

>>124387
Hey nona. I'm sorry this happened.

But I'm also thankful you posted your story, I'm sure there's a lot to learn from it. Do you have any insight into what made you act this way? I generally see this happening with people who have very weak boundaries so they kinda end up enabling others into abuse. (as fucked up as it sounds) At least he had someone to stand up for him.

Anonymous 124399

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>>124387

i read the whole thing. not only did your outburst broke one person, it broke 2 people because it broke you too. all because you cared about some highschool assholes making fun of you and you wanted to care about what other people think.

caring about the opinion of others instead of knowing what is right without being told, that's obedience to corruption. because you could not handle the ridicule of those superficial highschool people and misdirected your anger, you have been disabled. for centuries people have been broken for unnecessary reasons like that, you are in the unique position to understand it a little bit and i think you are helping minimally in communicating this.

Anonymous 124407

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>>124399
>>124396
When it came to the name-calling and laughing about him It was all of my friends. I told them to stop loads of times but they just wouldn't let up because they all found it so funny to pick on him.

A few times, they made fun of him right to his face and he didn't get mad at all. He'd just say things like "Oh is that how you see me?" and "That's harsh!" and they found comments like that all the more hilarious. They'd repeat it and mock him to his face, and he'd just smile and shrug.

I used to think that it was because he was timid, but no. The real reason was that he didn't care about what they thought, he only cared what I thought.

It was my mother who was the most ruthless. My mom hated him so much. She literally wouldn't let him even knock on our door and the one time he did I didn't hear the end of it for weeks. She was absolutely relentless in her chastising me for dating him.

>"You know he'll never amount to anything, why do you even waste your time with the likes of him?"

>"He's not good enough for you. Why would I have to put up with it?"
>"He's going to give you a disease."
>"Where do you see this going? Do you want to move into a trailer with him and have 18 kids or something?"
>"Eugh, I can't believe you let him use the toilet. I'll have to clean the entire bathroom tomorrow"
>"He always looks like he just woke up, he stinks, his clothes are ruined and he always has that stupid dopey smile on his face."
>"I can smell him in your car. Do me a favour and open the windows after you drop him off. It smells like a dumpster in here."
>"Don't bother finishing. I don't care if he's involved."
>"You know he's using you don't you?"
>"You know he has no future don't you? Why are you letting him ruin yours?"
>"You're dating a future janitor and you want to give ME advice? Be quiet."

In retrospect she has always been a vile person towards people she deemed lesser than her. I suppose because my mother didn't have many people to look down on herself. She was a divorcee, my dad left when I was 3 so I can hardly remember anything about him and my mothers live-in-boyfriend was and still is the biggest loser I've ever met. I suppose she was trying to warn me? Was that it? Or perhaps she really did just pick on him because he knew it riled me up and he was an easy target.

My mothers boyfriend has been collecting disability since I met him when I was 11. He's never had a job save for a few cash-in-hand under the table short gigs, he's just permanently in the house and he was always quick to take my mothers side on everything and amplify any argument between my mother and I so that he could collect brownie points. Truly a disgusting, fat little man. Remember the laundry room argument? That was the first time I'd ever told my mother "Tell that worm you pretend is your husband in the background to shut up. He can't gang up on me if I'm not even there."

Anonymous 124409

>>124408
Tranny or mood? Place your bets.

Anonymous 124411

>>124409
She deserves to have the information if she wants to end her life nona. It's just the neighborly thing to do.

Anonymous 124412

>>124407
You were set up. Parents have an enormous influence on their children and your mother led you to live the same life. Ironically she's a very good example of the phrase "every accusation is a confession".

I can't imagine what it's like to constantly get psyopped by everyone around you like this. It is actually very easy for people to start abusing someone if everyone else does that and it takes constant effort not to start mimicking everyone else's behavior I'm not saying that to justify you or anything, but the circumstances were not easy.

It's good you're taking accountability for this, too. I wish you well nona.

Anonymous 124413

Love is when you interact with someone who exists in reality. Limerence is when you interact with someone that exists in your head that you had created based on the information that you took from reality. The more approximately close to reality the object in your head is, the more believable it is. You are in love with fantasy. This is often an indication of unresolved issues from childhood that could be trauma, unmet needs, strict parenting, etc. and this miracle savior that exists in your head will solve everything.

Limerence feels very intense and immersive compared to love. The limerent object is flawless, and even if there are flaws in it, you'll automatically try to minimize or justify it. Meanwhile a real person is a shade of gray.

Avoid limerent objects at all costs. It simply is not worth it.

Anonymous 124416

>>124407
>A few times, they made fun of him right to his face and he didn't get mad at all.

as if he was supposed to? as if it was normal to react to what assholes hate about you? that's just warrior programming conflict addiction drama nonsense you are entangled in. was he supposed to waste his limited energy on dealing with the opinions of assholes so that they don't speaketh ill about him? makes me wonder if you have ever been on the jersey shore show…

i guess you never left the orbit of the expectation of people around you. like a person who never traveled but not in terms of location but in terms of group. the numbers simply don't add up when you try to people please into them not bullying you. the day has not enough hours to give blood to every vampire.

Anonymous 124417

>>124407
>It was my mother who was the most ruthless. My mom hated him so much.

i would have thrown her away for behaving like that. this is unacceptable. that punch in the face you got when you went to his house would have been better to hit her. in my long life i have encountered so many overbearing mothers who made bad decisions for their children and it boils to this idea that after i have read you for a bit would say are guilty of too: the belief in human ownership. your mother believed she owned you and felt justified in puppeteering you and you have at least partly adopted this expectation of social status and all i can say that everyone who believes this unfair rapist worldview is in line to pay dearly for this in some way or another.

Anonymous 124418

>>124416
well, you definitely don't keep hanging out with said assholes and having them disrespect you in front of your partner. nor do you keep responding cordially to their harrassment. that's just people pleasing people into bullying you lmao.

Anonymous 124419

>>124418
>nor do you keep responding cordially to their harrassment.
why not?

Anonymous 124420

>>124419
because it encouraged said "friends" to keep doing what they do and it did get to the guy. because if he retaliated or got mad a few times he probably wouldn't attempt suicide.

like yeah, I think if someone is being an emotional vampire wasting your limited energy to protect yourself is a pretty good idea. most energy-effective way would be to avoid these people though.

Anonymous 124421

8329103474324.gif

>>124413
>>124412
I can't really blame my mother. She really is a poisonous little troll. I've all but cut contact with her since graduation. She didn't turn up to my graduation which, again, cruelly poetic considering I told Harley not to when he was so excited about going to my HS one and bought a ticket to it.

I can't blame her because at 18/19 years old I should have known better. Nobody grows up thinking their parents are bad people if they're good at the whole "it's for your own good" thing. But I've had many years to look back on what she was like growing up. I remember what it was like being under her roof. Everything was controlled. We're talking about a woman who would call me a fatty if I had an extra ladle of miso soup and would give me evil eye and ask me if it was a "stupid girl day" if I didn't immediately start my homework when I got in from school. It wasn't until many years later that I learn how abnormal it was for her to go through my closet and throw out anything she deemed ugly, old, revealing or distasteful. She also had that worm of a man go through my computer and I'd be quizzed about having no internet history and they'd take it if they suspected I was "misusing" it.

Even so. My hatred and anger was completely misdirected. She probably didn't even hate Harley. She likely hated that I was disobeying her and used his looks and status as a lightning rod to make me feel bad about it. Sly considering that if she came out and said "You're not dating that boy. I forbid it." she knows I'd have found ways to defy her. Sly.

She used to use that worm a lot too. I used to be afraid of him. He had a temper when it came to me and mom always backed up that behaviour. I recall that him breaking the cable box outside, blamed me for leaving my scooter out, and slapped me when I told him that he was lying and it had nothing to do with it. He cut the cable with the strimmer. Many cases like that growing up.

I've rambled on about her long enough. Sorry. My point is that all the signs were there growing up. I just wasn't seeing them. I let her manipulate me because it was easier to go along with her control rather than constantly challenge her. I can't agree that I was set up. I should have known better and been stronger.

>>124413
It's been so long that the line is blurred, but I'll tell you this. I can't recall even one time he ever snapped at me, coerced me, begged me, berated me, bullied me, pushed me or made me feel bad. Not once. I remember trying my hardest in college to think of something I hated about him and I just couldn't.

Yes, he smelled funny, he was an industrial janitor and he didn't have time to shower or many clothes to change into. He was fine on days off.
Yes, his clothes were worn out, as i've said before, he used almost all of his money to buy things for his little sisters and help his mom, he kept hardly anything for himself.
Yes, he was tired all of the time, but ANYONE would be, the poor kid got up at 5am most days, went to work, went straight from work to school on a bicycle or bus depending on the weather, did a whole school day and then went straight back to work until 9pm-10pm. Then had to take a shower, do homework, eat dinner and go to bed. He had it rougher than basically anyone I knew. Of course he'd be falling asleep any chance he could.
Yes, he was skinny. I could hear his stomach rumbling but even if he did have food, he didn't have time. I used to buy him sandwiches sometimes because I was worried about him and the hug he'd give me was full of affection and appreciation. How can I ever tell between love and limerence as you put it when he was always, always like that?

But unresolved issues? I have them in spades, shovels even.

Anonymous 124423

>>124420
>because it encouraged said "friends" to keep doing what they do and it did get to the guy. because if he retaliated or got mad a few times he probably wouldn't attempt suicide.

it did not necessarily get to him until you thought it was your soldierly duty to bring it to him. he might have been fine just not caring about what the assholes said forever. it got to you however.

when someone insults you it literally matters how much you want it to. nobody but you decides how much it matters. you can interpret this as dangerous decrease in your honor and your social value as a proprietary human object on the path of unconscious accumulation or you can simply don't believe that it is important.

you insisting that it matters; you opted into this.

>like yeah, I think if someone is being an emotional vampire wasting your limited energy to protect yourself is a pretty good idea. most energy-effective way would be to avoid these people though.


i live in a city of millions of people. in the m² that i live in, 12000 other people live. in the center of the city where i would go to study and work it was even worse. that's an insane industrial chicken farm but for humans. you know what the ugly people do here when they have feeling for you on the street or in the bus, on the train or in the park? they insult you, they provoke you, they bully you, they come too close pretending that they didn't see you, they block your path or bump into you or find stupid reasons to touch you or take your hand or start fights with you pretending that you started it and all these other offenses. if you cared about every time this happened you would never reach your destination. you would waste day after day being in fights with ugly people on the street; so you just kind of have to let them do this and walk to the other side of the road because there is an almost infinite number of undesirables. at some point you have to understand that your soldier approach of defending your honor for every vampire that crosses your path is foolish and you are giving your power away to the undesirables by minding. what if he was doing this and you were simply too undesirable yourself to understand?

Anonymous 124424

1443815542001.gif

>>124421
holy shit that picture

Anonymous 124425

93478283478934.png

>>124423
That nona is not me, the one almost killed Harley over those "friends" insulting him. Again, now that I'm older and have had plenty of time to reflect on it, I'm confident that all they ever wanted was to get a reaction out of me, and they did, every time.

It mattered so so much to me what they thought. Now I haven't spoken to any of them in years. What a fucking idiot I was to have ever let myself get influenced by a group of girls who wouldn't have known what hard work was if you beat them with it. Problem is that I didn't back then either. If I did I probably would have saw them all for the pieces of shit they were a lot sooner.

These days I don't care what anyone thinks about me, but that's only because I know full well they can't have a lower opinion of me that I hold. I've made peace with the fact that I'm undeserving of love having done something like that to someone who loved me and the best revenge I can take on my mother is to discontinue her wretched bloodline. I don't even want to tell you what my grandparents were like. If I can't learn to love like a decent person and treat people with love and compassion then I deserve a miserable life spent wallowing in regret.

I have to laugh whenever anyone tells me that I have it wrong too. I watched a movie once. A Silent Voice. I completely got Shoya. 100%. It was excellent characterization. Recognizing how horrible you were doesn't fix it. At that point you're just a computer that knows it has a virus. Knowing about it in some ways is worse because you actually feel bad for the people who interact with you and so you withdraw, withdraw, withdraw, make yourself small, don't you dare look them in the eyes, don't you dare speak up or try to make friends, don't you dare try to be social or smile and god forbid you ever, ever draw a mans attention because you know full well that disgusting part of you is there, just beneath the surface.

All of my past relationships save Harley have been with men who didn't care about me. I have come to realize it's because I seek them out. I can tell when someone has no intention of loving me. Why? Because I know they're safe from the worst of me. If I snap at them they won't break because they don't care about me and every time I've been right. I've never cared about them enough to get angry. I've gone through the motions and let them be shitty to me and when it's ran its course… that's it. I got sick of it at 26 and just stopped dating all together. I'd rather be alone. It hurts less. I'm not hurting anyone, they're not hurting me.

Getting married, having kids, being happy? An impossible dream. Funny because when I was a little girl that was all I wanted. I still do, but how in the hell could I ever trust myself to not destroy a happy life like that even if I somehow managed to obtain it?

Don't waste your breath calling me pathetic. I've known it for years.

Anonymous 124427

>>124387
>>124425
Thanks for sharing, I'd suggest you find something that at least lets you symbolically atone, but hopefully you find more relatable movies and stories until then

Anonymous 124428

norm macdonald liv…

>>124425
>I've made peace with the fact that I'm undeserving of love having done something like that to someone who loved me and the best revenge I can take on my mother is to discontinue her wretched bloodline.

making peace to you means giving up? more soldiertalk i don't agree with but that is beside the point. you have hopes and dreams and feelings and what else is there to do in this life then to manifest your dreams into reality, doomscroll in isolation? that sounds awful. since you are now so old and wise, you should just update your approach to life based on what you have learned and keep going after your dreams more wisely now that you have learned so much.

you have probably learned a lot. you are right at that age where i found out that aging is a hoax and became health obsessed and did juice fasting and went raw vegan for a week the first time and found out what a big impact that has and i started dancing and meditating and all this stuff a benevolent system would have taught me in younger years. don't act like life is over for you just because you failed something.

finally found that clip i was thinking of when you said
>responding cordially to their harrassment

Anonymous 124429

83274893784928.png

>finally found that clip i was thinking of when you said
>>responding cordially to their harrassment
I wasn't that nona. my posts are:
>>124387
>>124389
>>124407
>>124421
>>124425

Anonymous 124430

tsc in the mall.mp…

>>124429

well then that was for her and her silly addiction to conflict. lemme look for something nice so you can have something too. and because my meme folder is a depressing mess that might take quite a while…

Anonymous 124431

we_are_who_we_are.…

>>124428
To respond to the rest of your post nona, I've not grown even nearly enough as a person to live a happy life. I still can't believe someone like me is trusted to be in the position I'm in and when I come home I do exactly that. Doomscroll, watch movies, post on the internet for some social connection however slight, drink too much. If I don't distract myself I just ruminate and obsess over things that happened so long ago I'm probably the only one who remembers them. I fear going to sleep because I can't help thinking about my regrets, every single night is a battle. I tried meditation and wow… most upsetting week of my life. How the hell is anyone supposed to acknowledge a thought and let it go when the thought wont leave you alone?

I just want to apologize. I want to say I'm sorry. But I don't deserve to. I know I'd just want him to be mine again and that can't and won't happen. He's happy now. I can't destroy everything he's built in some disgusting petty attempt to assuage my guilt over what I did to him. So I'm stuck as I am. I cannot move past it. I've tried. My mind knows to leave him alone, accept my guilt, accept that he's moved on and has found someone who deserves him and just get on with my life and try to forgive myself.

But I can't. Every day, when I go to bed, it's right there waiting for me. We are who we are. An apology won't change or make up for who I am and even if I did apologize, if I apologized a million times it wouldn't be enough. I'd probably shatter like glass if I ever got the chance and he said "I don't forgive you." but that's exactly what I deserve.

Anonymous 124432

>>124426
Back in my day we called ragebait trolling

Anonymous 124433

1520178337001.jpg

>>124431

>If I don't distract myself I just ruminate

that's what meditation if done right is the antidote to.

>I fear going to sleep because I can't help thinking about my regrets, every single night is a battle.

that's exactly what i would expect someone to sleep like who is fully aligned to identity.

>I tried meditation and wow… most upsetting week of my life. How the hell is anyone supposed to acknowledge a thought and let it go when the thought wont leave you alone?


the idea behind is: through the process of being mindful and not fleeing into distraction you can learn to no longer be identified with the feeling and once you reach that point you regain control over yourself. the part where you cringe and flee into distraction is how the unconsciousness puppeteers you.

>I just want to apologize. I want to say I'm sorry. But I don't deserve to. I know I'd just want him to be mine again and that can't and won't happen. He's happy now. I can't destroy everything he's built in some disgusting petty attempt to assuage my guilt over what I did to him. So I'm stuck as I am. I cannot move past it. I've tried. My mind knows to leave him alone, accept my guilt, accept that he's moved on and has found someone who deserves him and just get on with my life and try to forgive myself.


this you living in the past is just how the identity has leashed you.

>But I can't. Every day, when I go to bed, it's right there waiting for me. We are who we are. An apology won't change or make up for who I am and even if I did apologize, if I apologized a million times it wouldn't be enough. I'd probably shatter like glass if I ever got the chance and he said "I don't forgive you." but that's exactly what I deserve.


when very busy people say "i don't have time to meditate for an hour a day", the stern monk will reply "in that case you have to meditate for two hours a day!"

the more i listen to you the more i want to get into meditation again. you are so identified with your story when you don't have to be. this makes me wonder what i am still identified with.

i guess few people have seen anything outside of identity so talking about this is always difficult because i try to describe something that you don't even know exist of have any reference for so how would you possibly connect this to anything in your life or make sense of it. it's like there is color and you could see it too but because you refuse so hard you can't. everything is black and white and you refuse so hard that you don't even notice you are refusing and when i try to point out how you are refusing, you are likely to refuse even harder which makes you notice even less and then there is your job which has been nudging you into being a refuser for quite a while and without ever explicitly telling you, you'd be quick to find out how not-refusing isn't really an option in the majority of jobs and if you started to see color you'd find yourself be unwelcome in the place where you have probably sacrificed a lot to gain access to.

Anonymous 124436

>>124387
Sad story, odd picture to go with it but you have to believe in yourself and recognize your worth to be strong and move on

Anonymous 124437

in_spite_of_everyt…

>>124433
>i try to describe something that you don't even know exist of have any reference for so how would you possibly connect this to anything in your life or make sense of it.
I think you might be right. When you talk about being mindful I have no idea what you mean. When I tried meditation every video I came across said the same thing. "acknowledge the bad thought and let it go" and I tried. I really tried. I'd try to dismiss the thought and return to the image they told me to picture. A calm sea, a tranquil meadow, a sandy beach. They tell me to listen to the birds or the waves etc but it never lasted more than a few seconds until those thoughts crept back in. Over and over and over I'd try to "acknowledge and let them go". It added up to hours and hours. I did sometimes try for an hour at a time but it was no good. I just couldn't do it. Whatever you're talking about in your reality doesn't seem to exist in mine.
>>124436
I recognize my worth as a cog in society. I recognize my worth in caring for my plants, helping my colleagues get through their day, mentoring… But in terms of being able to be loved… no. There's nothing there. Nothing you've read would suggest that there is. When I look in the mirror all I see is someone pretending. Pretending to be nice. Pretending to be normal. Pretending to have a good heart. Pretending they don't have hideous thoughts. Pretending they don't hurt people the moment they aren't actively trying not to. But it's there. In the reflection. Every mistake I've ever made and will make. Every selfish impulse. Every greedy thought. Every entitled whim. She's always there, staring back at me.

Anonymous 124438

>>124437
I actually know what this feels like. My nervous system is so messed up after years of self-hatred and self-punishment it used to get uncontrollable in the same way.

One way I managed to get this issue under control was by being lucky enough to find someone who saw me for who I really am and accepted me. I guess you can't accept yourself unless someone whose opinion matters accepts you - and teaches you to do the same.
Another way is I kinda realized that I'm not inherently a shameful person. Horrible circumstances pushed me to fail time and time again. Which is why I kinda said you were set up previously in the thread. It means realizing why you did what you did and doing your best to change. (but perhaps you believe you can't change?)

Of course, it's not an idea that may be easy to accept where you are right now. You're longing for the same care that boy showed you and perhaps you feel like at this point it's impossible to find or you're not worth it. It makes sense why you would agonize over being denied love and acceptance. I know this feeling. I don't think we can really help you on this anonymous forum, but I wish you the best anyway.

Anonymous 124456

sad disagree.jpg

>>124437
>I think you might be right. When you talk about being mindful I have no idea what you mean. When I tried meditation every video I came across said the same thing. "acknowledge the bad thought and let it go" and I tried.

a while back i heard an explanation i thought painted a nice picture: in your mind there are a lot of thoughts and emotions and those are like fish in a pond. meditation teaches you to be the pond rather then any of the fish.

it's like a gym for your nervous system that trains you not to immedeatly respond to repetitive thoughtloops unconsciously. the thoughts will come but you don't have to care immedeatly about them, you don't have to react instantaneously to every whim and let the whim take you over, instead you let the whim have it's voice without forgetting everything else exists. you don't immedeatly have to jump into action for every little whim and instead calmly and wisely take all the time in the world to decide what a sensible course of action would be.

>I really tried. I'd try to dismiss the thought and return to the image they told me to picture. A calm sea, a tranquil meadow, a sandy beach. They tell me to listen to the birds or the waves etc but it never lasted more than a few seconds until those thoughts crept back in.


i hope they taught you to celebrate those few seconds because from the perspective of deep unconsciousness, those are huge successes. if you keep at those few seconds, your nervous system gradually unlocks and gives you access to the deeper levels. do this for a while and you might notice how all of the sudden you breathe way better throughout the day. i was quite surprised to find how much stuff was hidden inside me that unlocked once i began.

>Over and over and over I'd try to "acknowledge and let them go". It added up to hours and hours. I did sometimes try for an hour at a time but it was no good. I just couldn't do it. Whatever you're talking about in your reality doesn't seem to exist in mine.


for me i felt better when i did it the first times but it always quickly faded but i kept at it every so often and then after about 10 months something magical happened and suddenly it grew into a habit, meaning i did not have to sit and meditate to gain the feeling, the feeling would just come to me automatically without me having to order it. and when i mean feeling i mean calmness and clarity but also intense throbbing satisfaction and pleasure. like my whole body glowing from the inside, instead of the pain that i knew well suddenly every cell in my body emitting pleasure and singing in concert to celebrate being alive like one big long orgasm. every person i tried to explain this feeling gave me the scrunched up face like i was crazy and just flatout decided that this simply isn't possible. i don't know whether i would have believed it if somebody told me this was possible but there would have been no way to verbally communicate that this effortless feeling of completeness, of intense red hot satisfaction for no reason whatsoever exists.

feeling good for no reason in a world that tries to trick you to believe that feeling good is the result of actions and circumstances.

i think i am beginning to repeat myself so lemme summarize it like this: the best thing a human can experience is inside you. keep looking for it and watch the obstacles that tower over you shrink into the size of ants as your life blossoms into a beautiful loving adventure worth living.

Anonymous 124457

>>124456
>i hope they taught you to celebrate those few seconds because from the perspective of deep unconsciousness, those are huge successes.
This is kinda a good point too, it can be quite effective to keep your successes in mind even if you're not perfect yet. It trains you to keep doing what works, whether it is meditation or anything else. It's not a solution to nona's biggest issues, but it helps. It would be the most effective if there was another external party that kept telling you this cause it would keep it consistent too.

Anonymous 124458

>>124457

>It would be the most effective if there was another external party that kept telling you this cause it would keep it consistent too.


i get the impulse but you mean to tell me it would be better to search outside for a whole other person then then is supposed to help you go inside yourself by reminding you to go inside? that does sound like it involves a few extra steps. that search for the external party might take longer then going in 😂

Anonymous 124461

>>124458
Not quite. I mean to say support networks are incredibly effective and if you can work towards getting one, you should (on the side, by being nice and such). It's pretty much a pattern that most mentally healthy people had support networks, and most mentally unhealthy hadn't. At least in my experience.

Anonymous 124474

cowboy-bebop.jpg

>>124437
It took an enormous amount of introspection, honesty, and courage to realize how much of a cunt you were. Maybe some day you'll stop wallowing in self-pity and realize there is no escape or penance for sins, only to keep going.

You were conscientious enough to spill your guts & know all the little reasons for your actions, and why you never want to be like your mother, or childhood peers, and how you mistreated a loved one, and so on; so you are conscientious enough to live the rest of your life in good faith and honesty. Some of those feelings regarding first loves, delusions & greed, those never go away (for example, OP and the nature of this thread), but you are a better person now, so make use of that.

Anonymous 124486

light_inside.png

>>124438
I think I'm too far gone in many ways. I can't bring myself to let anyone get close enough to me to ever accept me. Somewhere along the path I stop them and those that don't I avoid until they become disinterested. I have to laugh because when I really think about it I don't think I ever had friends. Ever. The only exception to that is Harley and look what I did to him? Could I ever risk doing that to anyone else?

My friends in highschool were not friends. They were acquaintances. I never knew any of them. They never really knew me. That isn't friendship at all and yet that's what we call "friends". People who will spend time with one another without ever really knowing one another. You could have asked any one of them simple questions like "What does nona do when she's not at school?" and "What does nona want to do when she's an adult?" or even "What is nonas favorite song?" and not one of them could have answered those questions, to me those are the most superficial, surface level things a friend could know about and not one of them could have told you, because they never cared to ask and wouldn't have cared to remember.

My past relationships follow an even worse trend. Even when I knew full well that they didn't give a damn about me I continued the façade because they mimicked an almost impossibly small fraction of what I'd experienced in the past, but I knew full well on every level they wanted my body and nothing else. If I'd died the next day they wouldn't have even been able to muster a frown. Thinking about that and how I allowed myself to be used makes me feel so pathetic and disgusting I could cry. I have done, many times.

The only person I ever let in was Harley. I think that's part of the reason I'm clinging so hard. I destroyed the only friend I ever had. How could I possibly take that risk with another human being knowing I have the capacity to do that to another person. It's unthinkable.

I'm over 30 now. Changing just feels impossible. I'm at that point in my life where I know that even if I magically changed tomorrow and became this amazing, beautiful person that I want to be. Finding a good moid, falling in love, having a child and being happy feels impossible.

There isn't a person waiting to fix me. I can only try to mend myself. It's the difference between a chipped tea cup and a shattered one. Many people will still try to fix a chipped cup but not many people at all would bother trying to piece together all of the broken shards of ceramic. Not unless they saw value in it in the first place. If you saw a broken tea cup as you walked around the street would you bother picking up the pieces to take home? Would you mix the food safe bonding and gold leaf and kintsugi it back together? Or would you walk on by and not give it a second thought?

There was hope for me when people only saw the chips.

Anonymous 124490

>>124486
>There isn't a person waiting to fix me

if nobody sells what you are trying to buy it is time to get into the business of producing the thing yourself. if you stick to your warrior programming and wait for it to appear somewhere else so you can conquer it, you might wait forever and besides being a warrior should have wrecked you enough to understand that you might not want to be a warrior necessarily just because culture teaches you to be.

Anonymous 124492

>>124388
You are demented.

Anonymous 124493

>>124492
Nona I honestly think that is a shitpost

Anonymous 124501

>>124490
I do not understand what you mean by warrior programming Nona. Please elaborate.

Anonymous 124502

>>124501
>warrior programming

it's a reference to the way modern cultures have evolved. when you go to school, when you participate in monetary exchange, when you work and for the most part when you engage in any kind of social interaction; basically when you do almost anything normal in modern life: everything is set up for you to become a certain way as much as currently possible while the things that are not a certain way yet are currently being scrutinized in an effort to make them become a certain way as well. the culture is carefully set up like that.

most people are so entangled in these basic setups, that they don't really think about it too much and in a way i even have empathy for that. when you are trapped in an awful job that consumes your life you are likely to conclude that you are too busy to question basics. but people who don't question basics all kind of turn out the same, an eery unsettling similarities in key areas of their personality. they all seem to have similar problems that might manifest in ways that seem different, complex and unrelated but i don't agree they are.

when you live consciously for long enough, you see how the things that are, turn into the things that have been with such reliable predictability. few things will surprise you if any. at some point you get it, you will see something and you can tell how it turn out; maybe not every time but most of the time.

warrior programming is the attempt to summarize this experience of what i might almost call a cultural inevitability. a more dramatic way to summarize it would be
>curse of being normal.

toxic normality might also describe it well but it sounds too contemporary for my taste, i try to make it sound more timeless when i communicate.

Anonymous 124531

>>124486
>w. Changing just feels impossible. I'm at that point in my life where I know that even if I magically changed tomorrow and became this amazing, beautiful person that I want to be. Finding a good moid, falling in love, having a child and being happy feels impossible.

Stop centering your life around moids. You should seek healing for YOU only, not for some hypothetical moid who may or may not exist.
If you really want to atone, the best thing you can do is let him be. Do you think obsessing over him like this is letting him be happy and free? No, you're still clinging onto him and he will never be free until you realize that you can live without him
Your entire posts is just "Harley, Harley, Harley" enough!
Go make female friends, volunteer at a shelter or something, spend time with children and animals, continue with the meditation like the other recommended and stop being a slave. You are your own jailer, literally picrel
If he could move on then so can you JFC, you were a bitch, sure but it's not like you raped or beat him. Stop making yourself into this martyr figure, you're only mythologizing your own self pity instead of taking action. You said you never told this to anyone, couldn't even admit any of this to a therapist, well this is the first step towards moving on.



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