How do we get men to put more effort into their appearance?
publicly shame them until they change
We’ve been asking this question for 10,000 years. Men have always been slobs.
first we need to bully them into washing their asses, we can worry about their appearances later
Some british monk literally said 'the vikings were so good at kidnapping women, because the women saw how they were well mannered, bathed, and styled themselves'. So women went along with them because hey at least it's better living in a legally equal society where men wash their asses.
Lmao you can't, males have always been nasty. The few that aren't are rare and magical. Best to just hose them all down when they enter public buildings.
I don't think that's true. Many cultures put emphasis in male grooming, certainly way more than we do today. It wasn't that long ago that men were expected to wear suits, comb their hair, be clean shaved (or with well maintained facial hair), wear a hat and generally be clean if they wanted any respect from society. There weren't any Hollywood stars in 50's who looked like hobos like modern male actors and singers look.
Today's extreme gap between how women are supposed to look (like perfect Instagram sex dolls) and how men are (like homeless ghetto trash) is an anomaly.
I think men's trashiness is directly related to the general decline of civilization, nothing is expected from western men anymore and the only role women are encouraged toward is as mindless pornsluts for their gaming addicted coomer men. USA especially promotes extreme anti-intellectualism and all the trashiness attached to it. Men in most European countries are better groomed, as are men in wealthy Asian countries. One of the worst trends is the ghetto-black culture, it's ruined generations of men (and women) with the pure trashiness, dirty look, gaudy ugliness, baggy clothes for men and stripperwear for women, all has been promoted as "cool" for decades now.
You raise a good point, even for going to a stadium for a game, men at the time used to have a much higher standard of class than there is now.
>One of the worst trends is the ghetto-black culture, it's ruined generations of men (and women) with the pure trashiness, dirty look, gaudy ugliness, baggy clothes for men and stripperwear for women, all has been promoted as "cool" for decades now.
The lengths people go to tiptoe around this is mindboggling, ghetto "culture" isn't worth shit and I hate to see it infect culture at large. Twerking is not okay, calling women bitches and hoes is not okay, bragging about doing drive bys and getting shot is not okay, blacks are being held back alright but it's not "systemic racism" doing the work.
I don't dress like a Mad Men LARP and I don't need men to do it, either. What they need to do is learn to wash the clothes they already have.
Nobody is saying men need to dress like that, just pointing out that it's not true that it has always been okay for men to be slobs.
Need an answer for this. My bf is all good in the hygeine department, even puts effort into beard oils/smelling good etc. He dresses quite fashionably but I can't get over how he will wear clothes that are ripped and have tons of holes in them. He has this pair of pajama bottoms where the entire ass is exposed because of a giant hole but he still wears them at home. He'll also wear shirts with holes all over them and even some that have the whole armpit exposed with a giant hole. I kind of understand, I wear tshirts with one or two little in them but this is just ridiculous. Whenever I ask why he doesnt throw them out he goes "what does it matter? No one see's me in them anyway, I don't wear them out of the house?" It turns ME off? I think his clothes are quite fashionable but they are all quite old, rarely see or hear of him wanting or buying new clothes despite saying he has an intereset in fashion.
Did you actually tell him you don't like it or just imagine telling him?
Get him a sowing kit or sow them for him, he'll appreciate it that you're making his already ripped clothes last even longer.
Why waste good clothes if they're still usable? A hole or two isn't that big of a deal, especially since he only uses them at home anyway. I've been raised within a family that always tried to repair and reuse their stuff instead of throwing them away and buying new stuff, so that's my point of view. You could do what >>9220
said if you're THAT bothered by it, though.
>>9218>It turns ME off?
tell him that
>>9218>"what does it matter? No one see's me in them anyway, I don't wear them out of the house?"
Tell that retard that you are seeing him.
Hell even walking around just in underwear is cooler than in ripped clothes. He is a lazy fuck.
Ok serious question: should society normalize the casualization of men’s formalwear again? Like how in the 50s it was normal / expected of men to wear full suits wherever they went in public. Regardless of whether you think this would feasibly work, is this something you would want to see? All men everywhere you went dressed like expensive eye candy?
That is too much but I would love if moids did an attempt to look cleaner overall. Business casual styles or others are fine but I don't like seeing them in slacker wear.
The 60s got it right imo. Not too autistically formal fedora lords, not too retarded about letting yourself go looking sloppy except the Hippies. The 60s is the sweetspot.
Agreed. The 60s/mod style is pretty cool for women too, very short but more cute than sexy.
queen victoria and…
Not at all. It depends on fashion and which gender is emphasised as the spectacle. Typically in cultures where women aren't supposed to be for viewing pleasure (even on stage, feminine men play women), the men are very fashionable and care more about the looks of other men than of women. For most of history in most cultures, men's fashion was more elaborate and important.
In today's case it's because men were mainly built up to be workers/fuel for society while women, whether working or not, the consumers, the ones marketed to. Consuming isn't the same as this obviously but it goes along with being conscious of your appearance.
It being socially unacceptable for men to wear most clothes, even basic colours, and do other appearance-related things directly aligns to the marketing. Anything beyond limited utilitarian clothing in men's fashion is extremely expensive and niche, unusable in most environments, everything else is women's fashion, so consuming and resulting conscientiousness is inaccessible. I think you'll find it different for zoomers though. Also I wouldn't equate bad or limited fashion with being a slob, that is just stereotype though I imagine given the conditions above there are more slobby men than slobby women. If you're pushing that point then I don't know where you're coming from really as it's not my experience.
Actually it's this suit business that kind of killed itself. Unchanged fashion from the 1890s or earlier restricted more and more.>>9193
Vikings only washed their asses on Sunday or Saturday they were smelly pieces of shit that didn't even have bath houses like the Romans.
I learned this from Vinland Saga anime, so you are lying.
The savages at the north of Europe were even more dirty than the people of the middle east by that time. Showering only one day yeah no. Gtfo.
Did a viking hurt you or something.
Yeah I am sure women went along with a bunch of murdering rapist bandits who killed their fathers, husbands and sons, because they smelled nice.
>>9389>i learned this from the vinland saga anime
J-media causes brainrot confirmed
I don’t know much about men’s clothes but I’m led to believe that suits and formal wear are very expensive, even prohibitively so compared to what we can wear. So that may be a part of it, plus at the age when men actually look hot in suits (20s) they can’t afford it, compared to all the fat geezers who wear suits
This is true. Men have a lot less of that mid -tier formal-ish fast fashion than women have. Because the rules on what is formal for men is so much more straightforward than for women.
To add to this, men’s formal garments are heavy on tailoring, where it’s basically expected that any non shit suit gets bought unfinished and you need to take it to a tailor for alterations. So they can’t just buy a suit off the rack and slip it on, there’s a lot of internal fabric that silhouettes the shoulders and mid frame which looks bulky or floppy and accentuates disfigurement if even slightly off.
And not to get too much into power complexes, but I generally feel that women’s formal clothing / fancy clothing that looks good on women draws it’s essence from exposing skin and letting more of the body show. Whereas men’s clothings power comes from dressing the whole body and structuring a figure from that. Which is why most mid/high level dresses can be comparable on a hot woman, the same isn’t true for an ill fitting suit on a hot man
Honesty if I were fuck-you rich I would spend more money dressing my boyfriend than myself; I’d have him fitted like a Macy’s model with shirt unbuttoned chest oiled every time I came home from work
I'm reminded of an old Popeye comic that I of course can't find right now. Goes something like this:
>Brutus asks Olive Oyl why she won't date him
>she starts listing all the things he could do to improve himself, such as shaving, bathing, lose weight, and dress nicely, then she'd date him
>Brutus says "Gee Olive, if I did all that, I sure as heck could find someone better than you"
Basically, you don't want men to improve, because then they'll only go for Stacies.
That is not true.
What if I do all that. Therefore I obviously want a man who can hold himself to the same standard?
Women aren't held to the same bodily standards as men.
Those clothes are sentimental to him, the wear and tear they have only adds to that, like scars. If you tell him to get rid of them because they look bad he's hearing that you want him to get rid of his old friend because you think they're ugly. Guys get really attached to things that comfort them, especially clothes. And attacking that relationship they have will make them stubborn and defensive. If you want a man to get new clothes, you can't frame it as replacing the things he loves because that would make him feel like he's betraying his friend. What you should do, is convince him there's a good unrelated reason to get the new things.>These new pajamas are better than your old ones
will never work, even if it's true, because he loves the old ones already.>These would make your butt look cute, and they look super comfy, you should get them
is more likely to work because it gives a clear rational reason to get the new thing, without bringing in his irrational feelings about the old thing
Speak for yourself. I like skinny men a lot they are my favorite type actually.
On average, the majority of men are held to a different cultural standard of beauty. It's fine you dig a non-conforming standard, but by nature of wanting non-standard beauty, you are going to have a harder time finding men that reject the societal standard of beauty, but still put in enough effort for their own personal ideal of beauty. You are simultaneously seeking someone who doesn't care what others think about what he looks like, but he cares about what he looks like, a relatively rare trait.
Outlier tastes like chubby chasers in men don’t get a say in shaping societal norms. On average I think western men are very out of shape, tending either towards too skinny sickly pale incels or too fat neckbeard hairy incels. I would think most other women my age agree that the “hottest” male body is relatively muscular and tall
step 1: LARP as giga-chad, slayer of pussy on 4chinz
step 2: give advice to lonely moids on how to look in order to attract women
step 3: watch as they screenshot your post and spread it around all of their self-improvement and dating forums
step 4: profit
then all you have to do is deal with their god-awful personalities.
The internet is separated into little bubbles where people go if they’re interested, so we have men gathering around Reddit and refusing to look into what women want, and then they COMPLAIN about “not knowing what women want.” You didn’t even try!
This nona >>15311
has it right at a basic level.
If you want men to change their behaviors they need role models for how to be men.
Many of them didn't have fathers at home, or the fathers were working the whole time. Leaving only the media for impressions.
And mass media has largely eliminated positive role models for men. They only have basketball players, Pete Davidson, and Jack Harlow as things that are praised in current year. Oh and ones that wear dresses (I wonder why that's pushed?). The more ignorant the moid on tv, the more mass media pushes him.
Things like idolizing the k-pop bands is a great start. But they need something far closer to home for them to culturally to embrace.