>>12125but needing to believe in the astral dimension in order to access it is the trick itself, in this case, no? belief is known to change people's personal realities, like the placebo effect. expecting something to work, and to be real, can literally alter perception. belief to access it doesn't make it real in the sense that it can exist outside of belief. so i'm confused how it can be real despite false or true belief, like in our waking world. and there's been no verified, recorded instance of people actually communicating in these states; if a shared common space separates ap from lucid dreaming, then you'd expect to see this being possible. or is the "shared" part moreso with the "outer" of reality, rather than just the "inner" we all access inside ourselves- is that what you mean? if we experience the outer world during an obe, are we doing it in our own little "room" of reality; like it's reflected into the room how it is, but not literally there, hence why no-one's accurately recorded what they saw during one? that's persuasive compared to literally walking around our actual reality as a spirit when we float out of our bodies. we access a different part, through belief. like a way of changing our brain's way of connecting with reality. but, again, what does that mean for the literal world we're inhabiting. does the obe even
happen 
